A quick review of Mac's job performance

[J-R-K]

The consensus from most on this board seems to be that they're satisfied with Mac except for the W/L record and recruiting. So other then one thing which is really all the matters in sports and another thing which has the single largest effect on the thing which is really all that matters, everything else about Mac is great? Do i have this correct?

Mac is 1-23 in his career against power-conference schools. Even that one win came against a historically bad Cal team. For reference during this same five year stretch I-AA North Dakota St. is 4-0 against power conference schools.

The close losses narrative has been overplayed. Close games are a part of sports, everyone has them. Often what separates the good coaches from the bad ones is the ability to win them. Plus five dow-to-the-wire games over two seasons is hardly the inordinate amount that people want to make it out to be. Embree, the incompetent one himself, "managed" the exact same number.

The "turnaround specialist" narrative has also been overplayed. Doing something once doesn't make you a specialist. The fact that SJSU hasn't been to a bowl the past two seasons also further diminishes this idea. If Mac's such a great program builder and talent evaluator then how do you explain the past two seasons at SJSU?

At CU he's had all of his recruiting classes ranked last in the conference and an alarming number of recruits without any other power-conference offers. The actual performance of his recruits thus far has been ok, but still as a whole not great. Plus every coach in the country has a few recruits turn out to be good, this is hardly anything to be excited about.

Ya Mac took over a crappy situation and yes we've become more competitive but we still stink and despite many people on here just assuming that we'll improve in some substantive linear way, largely for the reasons described above I don't see much reason to believe this will be the case. Threads like this making excuses, preaching patience, and cherry picking even the faintest signs of progress only make me laugh knowing that similar threads popped up during Embree's and Hawk's tenures. It's as if some people believe every coach in America is destined for great success, they just need time and support to make it happen.

 

[SD Buff]

Often what separates the good coaches from the bad ones is the ability to win them.

Agreed. And next year we'll see if MacIntyre is a good coach. As of today, all we have to go off of is taking a program who was losing conference games by the 1st qtr in 2012 to taking most well into the late stages of the 4th qtr in 2014. That is solid incremental improvement. In 2015, CU will be fielding a team three years removed from a place most Buff fans never imagined would exist. We will be older and more experienced. It is in 2015, against a very tough schedule, that MacIntyre and his staff will need to come away with wins and separate themselves as good coaches.

To date, all they've done is separate themselves from the bottom of the barrel. Not much a bar to set. Going forward, expectations will be justifiably raised.

 

[Buffnik]

J-R-K,

No one's arguing the opposite of what you're saying, from what I can tell.

He has been around other turn-arounds in the NFL, at Ole Miss, at Duke, as a player under his dad, etc. So that is a football culture he's very familiar with.

But we're all in wait-and-see mode. Will he get more wins this season? Will that trend continue into 2016? Does recruiting improve?

If not, he won't have a job here more than another year or two. And if that's the case, it will be a failure but I do think he'll leave the program in better shape than he found it.

 

[Scotch]

The consensus from most on this board seems to be that they're satisfied with Mac except for the W/L record and recruiting. So other then one thing which is really all the matters in sports and another thing which has the single largest effect on the thing which is really all that matters, everything else about Mac is great? Do i have this correct?

Mac is 1-23 in his career against power-conference schools. Even that one win came against a historically bad Cal team. For reference during this same five year stretch I-AA North Dakota St. is 4-0 against power conference schools.

The close losses narrative has been overplayed. Close games are a part of sports, everyone has them. Often what separates the good coaches from the bad ones is the ability to win them. Plus five dow-to-the-wire games over two seasons is hardly the inordinate amount that people want to make it out to be. Embree, the incompetent one himself, "managed" the exact same number.

The "turnaround specialist" narrative has also been overplayed. Doing something once doesn't make you a specialist. The fact that SJSU hasn't been to a bowl the past two seasons also further diminishes this idea. If Mac's such a great program builder and talent evaluator then how do you explain the past two seasons at SJSU?

At CU he's had all of his recruiting classes ranked last in the conference and an alarming number of recruits without any other power-conference offers. The actual performance of his recruits thus far has been ok, but still as a whole not great. Plus every coach in the country has a few recruits turn out to be good, this is hardly anything to be excited about.

Ya Mac took over a crappy situation and yes we've become more competitive but we still stink and despite many people on here just assuming that we'll improve in some substantive linear way, largely for the reasons described above I don't see much reason to believe this will be the case. Threads like this making excuses, preaching patience, and cherry picking even the faintest signs of progress only make me laugh knowing that similar threads popped up during Embree's and Hawk's tenures. It's as if some people believe every coach in America is destined for great success, they just need time and support to make it happen.

This is fair. IMO, the excuses you point to were valid considering where the program was at when he took over. But 2 years is enough, those same excuses can't be used anymore. Need to start seeing results that don't fall under the moral victory category.

 

[SINKRATZ]

The consensus from most on this board seems to be that they're satisfied with Mac except for the W/L record and recruiting. So other then one thing which is really all the matters in sports and another thing which has the single largest effect on the thing which is really all that matters, everything else about Mac is great? Do i have this correct?

Yes, basically. I've been critical of Mac, particularly with respect to recruiting, but even I recognize that recruiting and wins are lagging indicators of overall improvement within the program. I hate the "building a foundation" talk because we've heard that narrative for almost a decade now, but I do see enough positive signs to ride this out a little longer.

 

[Dark Bohner]

The consensus from most on this board seems to be that they're satisfied with Mac except for the W/L record and recruiting. So other then one thing which is really all the matters in sports and another thing which has the single largest effect on the thing which is really all that matters, everything else about Mac is great? Do i have this correct?

Mac is 1-23 in his career against power-conference schools. Even that one win came against a historically bad Cal team. For reference during this same five year stretch I-AA North Dakota St. is 4-0 against power conference schools.

The close losses narrative has been overplayed. Close games are a part of sports, everyone has them. Often what separates the good coaches from the bad ones is the ability to win them. Plus five dow-to-the-wire games over two seasons is hardly the inordinate amount that people want to make it out to be. Embree, the incompetent one himself, "managed" the exact same number.

The "turnaround specialist" narrative has also been overplayed. Doing something once doesn't make you a specialist. The fact that SJSU hasn't been to a bowl the past two seasons also further diminishes this idea. If Mac's such a great program builder and talent evaluator then how do you explain the past two seasons at SJSU?

At CU he's had all of his recruiting classes ranked last in the conference and an alarming number of recruits without any other power-conference offers. The actual performance of his recruits thus far has been ok, but still as a whole not great. Plus every coach in the country has a few recruits turn out to be good, this is hardly anything to be excited about.

Ya Mac took over a crappy situation and yes we've become more competitive but we still stink and despite many people on here just assuming that we'll improve in some substantive linear way, largely for the reasons described above I don't see much reason to believe this will be the case. Threads like this making excuses, preaching patience, and cherry picking even the faintest signs of progress only make me laugh knowing that similar threads popped up during Embree's and Hawk's tenures. It's as if some people believe every coach in America is destined for great success, they just need time and support to make it happen.

What is your point? You make this long winded post basically saying that MM sucks, but don't really give a solution. What should fans be doing? Screaming at RG to fire MM immediately because he hasn't already elevated Colorado to Oregon status? Conventional wisdom says that coaches deserve up to 5 years to really put their fingerprint on the program. Embree didn't get that because it was obvious that he wasn't cut out for being a HC. MM needs time to fix the dumpster fire that he inherited. I don't like waiting any more than anybody else, and was yelling my frustration to everybody last season, but even great coaches need time to build something.

After the same amount of time as Embree had, I am far more convinced that MM knows what he is doing and is still going in the right direction.

 

[buffaholic]

Colorado has not yet attained the level of NDSU in football. I believe that. But we've made great strides.

 

[FLounder]

Mike MacIntyre will turn CU into a New Years Day bowl level team.

 

[absinthe]

When people criticize HCMM I think they forget the total and complete shambles that CU was in before he got here. People on this board attack his recruiting as not being good enough for a Pac-12 school and that some of our recruits are MWC worthy... Well, under MacIntyre SJSU was a top 25 team and I think any of us would be okay with a top 25 ranking for CU within the next few seasons.

David Fales aint walking through that door.

 

[sackman]

J-R-K is great at saying things suck, but not so great at saying what his expectations were to begin with. Did he expect a bowl game in year 2? If so, is that a reasonable expectation?

What we want, and what is a realistic expectation are two dramatically different things. I want CU to pull in top 20 classes and contend for conference titles every year. A realistic expectation is that we get a little better, each year, over about 5 years.

But it's a lot more self gratifying to throw a temper tantrum over the W/L record.

 

[Bufffan68]

I really don't get the problem with his recruiting. Sure, mathematically it could be better since were in the 60s, but I'm not sure how it could be considering the **** sandwich he was handed.

How many bad teams turn things around with good recruiting classes? Very few to any. I'm guessing if the team needed turning around in the first place means they aren't any good and can't get the interest of 4-5* guys. Did McCartney, Snyder, Cutcliffe, Leavitt, Patterson etc turn around their programs by FIRST recruiting well and THEN winning?

Nope, they found good kids but coached them up, were better at motivating and fundamentals and won games; and it took time. Then, after winning, they were able to attract top recruits. I know Mac has been that kind of coach in the past, and I have no reason to believe he can't do it here...especially with the support (finally) of the administration. But as numerous people have mentioned, he needs to start winning and prove to everyone he can turn this dumpster fire program around.

Although I'm willing to extend some 'grace' because he is now in the PAC12 South and not the MWC/WAC Whocares division, he needs to win and show even more improvement in 2015. I don't see his seat getting hot if he doesn't, but it sure will be warmer.

 

[tante]

I always laugh when poster complains that someone is complaining on a message board and not offering solutions. Like RG is trolling allbuffs looking for solutions to his problems.

 

[Buffnik]

I always laugh when poster complains that someone is complaining on a message board and not offering solutions. Like RG is trolling allbuffs looking for solutions to his problems.

I'm with you on that.

But I do think people should try to say what they want or expect instead of just bitching.

For example, I don't expect people to lay out a recruiting strategy of geographic responsibilities, camp attendance, early offers or staff changes. But if you're going to complain about recruiting, I'd like to see some sort of stated expectation where it fell short (i.e., "I want most CU commits to be recruiting battles won against P5", "CU should be in the middle third of the Pac-12", "A class in the Top 40 on Rivals would be a success", etc.).

 

[sackman]

I'm with you on that.

But I do think people should try to say what they want or expect instead of just bitching.

For example, I don't expect people to lay out a recruiting strategy of geographic responsibilities, camp attendance, early offers or staff changes. But if you're going to complain about recruiting, I'd like to see some sort of stated expectation where it fell short (i.e., "I want most CU commits to be recruiting battles won against P5", "CU should be in the middle third of the Pac-12", "A class in the Top 40 on Rivals would be a success", etc.).

To take it one step further, I'd like an explanation as to why that person has those expectations in the first place. As you said, I'm not interested in how they would do things differently. I do want to know why they feel a recruiting class in the 40's (to use your example) is appropriate. A class ranked that high would be significanly above what our record would indicate, so what makes that the expectation?

 

[SerenityBuff]

More like J-E-R-K. Amirite?

 

[DBT]

J-R-K,

No one's arguing the opposite of what you're saying, from what I can tell.

He has been around other turn-arounds in the NFL, at Ole Miss, at Duke, as a player under his dad, etc. So that is a football culture he's very familiar with.

But we're all in wait-and-see mode. Will he get more wins this season? Will that trend continue into 2016? Does recruiting improve?

If not, he won't have a job here more than another year or two. And if that's the case, it will be a failure but I do think he'll leave the program in better shape than he found it.

I have total faith in Rick George to make the decisions that need to be made to get this program back to the top. We fans can bitch and moan and cry and scream and yell all we want. It will be of no avail other than allowing us to vent and get things off our chests. Believe me, Rick George has made promises to people who, if THEY do bitch and moan and scream and yell, will have his attention. RG is under more pressure to get this thing turned around than anyone. Just as Mac "fired" a long time pal and assistant coach to save his job, RG will fire Mac to save his. Or at least to save his credibility with the big donors.

 

[Liver]

mm gets an "incomplete" so far.

he's got a plan. he runs a tight organization. we have a competent staff in place and he just upgraded it. from an organizational coaching perspective and on an Xs and Os basis, he is light-years better than the last 2 coaches.

recruiting is not where it needs to be. that's an unassailable truth. you can't just coach guys up in the bigs. you need athletes. again, from an organizational and planning perspective, he's done well filling his pipeline in a logical way and trying to build a program through building players over time. this is great, but you still need more raw materials if you are going to be competitive in the p12. this league isn't for over-achievers.

the w/l record has been dismal. i am not sure it would have been better with almost any other coach we could get to come here, but i do think there are some guys who might have recruited much better, thus setting the table for more success sooner.

he gets an "incomplete" from me, because we were in a pretty deep hole and he's only been here 2 years. looking at the schedule upcoming, a bowl game seems improbable. but, my expectation is that we find a way to get into a bowl game. if we do not, i think that trigger some serious thinking about the future of the program. another winless in-conference effort would be very, very disturbing.

let's see how it goes.

 

[Highlander]

I am over the Mac discussion until we get in to the next season. He's here - he will do the best he can. What is stated on a message board about his performance to date is basically a circle jerk.

Based on RG's comments, another 0fer in Pac12 play will not be tolerated. Anything much beyond that is speculation.

 

[Buffnik]

I am over the Mac discussion until we get in to the next season. He's here - he will do the best he can. What is stated on a message board about his performance to date is basically a circle jerk.

Based on RG's comments, another 0fer in Pac12 play will not be tolerated. Anything much beyond that is speculation.

I hear you, but we've got almost 7 months until CU plays a game. We may have to figure out ways to liven up the circle jerk, but a circle jerk's about all we've got for a while.

 

[Bufffan68]

I hear you, but we've got almost 7 months until CU plays a game. We may have to figure out ways to liven up the circle jerk, but a circle jerk's about all we've got for a while.

LOL. This.

 

[Highlander]

I hear you, but we've got almost 7 months until CU plays a game. We may have to figure out ways to liven up the circle jerk, but a circle jerk's about all we've got for a while.

There is always basketball. Oops. Never mind.

 

[CVilleBuff]

I have a good feeling about where we're headed. Frankly, I've had a good feeling about MM since the hire was made. It's been a bumpy ride and going winless in the Pac was brutal even though improvement was displayed. Recruiting certainly isn't anything to be overjoyed about overall, but these hires have reaffirmed my belief that we're on a good trajectory under MM. It may very well turn out that MM can't get us above the 6-7 win mark in this new brutal Pac of recent years, but 6-7 wins sounds damn good right about now and that's a level I can handle being at for a while given the endless hell we've been through. Unfortunately, I do feel this upcoming season does not set up well. I fully recognize the time for moral victories is over and it's time to start winning some football games. However, it's just reality that our Pac12 schedule is about the worst set up possible. Even the OOC, favorable as it is overall, requires a win at Hawaii in addition to the usual 6 wins in order to reach bowl eligibility. I don't see it, but if we post 5-6 wins and show we're starting to get over the hump by winning some games instead of just being close then I'll be content. We will have moved one more step forward.

I like the Pac being top notch, but sitting here in ACC-land it is a little painful seeing the rampant mediocrity and knowing how many more wins we'd be picking up in a conference of that caliber. Getting your head above water in the new-look Pac is one hell of a challenge

 

[Deleted member 807]

I have mixed feelings about where we're headed. Frankly, I've had concerns about MM since the hire was made. It's been a bumpy ride and going winless in the Pac was brutal. Recruiting certainly isn't anything to be overjoyed about overall, but these recent hires have opened up the possibility for guarded optimism under MM. It may very well turn out that MM can't get us above the 6-7 win mark in this new brutal Pac of recent years, but 6-7 wins means a low level bowl game and that sucks less than the endless **** sandwiches we've been served for years now. Unfortunately, I do feel this upcoming season does not set up well. I fully recognize the time for moral victories is over and it's time to start winning some football games. Unfortunately it's just reality that our Pac12 schedule is about the worst set up possible. Even the OOC, favorable as it is overall, requires a tough road win at Hawaii in addition to 6 more wins in order to reach bowl eligibility. I don't see it, but if we post 5-6 wins and show we're starting to get over the hump by winning some games instead of just being close then I'll be less disappointed. We will have moved one more step forward.

I like the Pac being top notch, but sitting here in Texas it is a little painful seeing the rampant mediocrity in the B12 and knowing how many more wins we'd be picking up in a conference of that caliber. Getting your head above water in the new-look Pac is one hell of a challenge.

 

[pcbuff]

It's really hard for me right now. Right after the hire to take us in a new direction, he puts Nienas on staff which stunk of the prior AD and Destiff. Then he scholarshipped his kid showing he had no understanding of the damage Hawk did by doing the same. Hearing Daddy Ball U from coaches at camps stings because of its truth. He has done so much I like, and then in these two issues he is so flawed. Then I see a hire to address a weakness I like, but it timed in a way that prevents it bringing in a single new recruit?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

It's really hard for me right now. Right after the hire to take us in a new direction, he puts Nienas on staff which stunk of the prior AD and Destiff. Then he scholarshipped his kid showing he had no understanding of the damage Hawk did by doing the same. Hearing Daddy Ball U from coaches at camps stings because of its truth. He has done so much I like, and then in these two issues he is so flawed. Then I see a hire to address a weakness I like, but it timed in a way that prevents it bringing in a single new recruit?

First bold - He has stated he put Jay's film in front of his assistant coaches, left the room and had them evaluate. He asked them all to be truthful in their evaluations and acknowledge whether or not Jay Mac would be worthy of a scholarship to CU, even if he wasn't HCMM's son. Take it for what you will but they all agreed and said yes. There is also a huge difference between Hawkins bringing his son to CU to play QB and MM's son playing WR. It's a completely different dynamic and HCMM hasn't shown any signs of favoritism, thus far, albeit after 1 year.

Second bold - CU needed to get the DC hire right, and they took the necessary time to do so. Getting Jim Leavitt, no matter how long it took, will have a much larger impact on the future success of CU than any one individual player that CU reasonably could have signed had they had a DC in place earlier.

 

[SINKRATZ]

First bold - He has stated he put Jay's film in front of his assistant coaches, left the room and had them evaluate. He asked them all to be truthful in their evaluations and acknowledge whether or not Jay Mac would be worthy of a scholarship to CU, even if he wasn't HCMM's son. Take it for what you will but they all agreed and said yes. There is also a huge difference between Hawkins bringing his son to CU to play QB and MM's son playing WR. It's a completely different dynamic and HCMM hasn't shown any signs of favoritism, thus far, albeit after 1 year.

Second bold - CU needed to get the DC hire right, and they took the necessary time to do so. Getting Jim Leavitt, no matter how long it took, will have a much larger impact on the future success of CU than any one individual player that CU reasonably could have signed had they had a DC in place earlier.

So he asked the guys who just had their salaries quadrupled because he'd brought them to CU to pretend it wasn't his son and give an honest evaluation. Even if he had the best of intentions, there is no way guys can be objective in that situation. Mac has done a lot of really good things here, but bringing JMac on scholarship was a mistake IMO and showed some real lack of understanding of a major mistake made by one of his predecessors. JMO.

 

[sackman]

The Jay Mac comparisons to Cody are unjust, IMO. There's a big difference between WR and QB. You might have as many as four WRs in the game at once, and you might play as many as six in a game. There's usually only one QB that takes snaps in a game. Even if MM did play favorites with Jay Mac, it's not like doing so will take game snaps away from a deserving player.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

So he asked the guys who just had their salaries quadrupled because he'd brought them to CU to pretend it wasn't his son and give an honest evaluation. Even if he had the best of intentions, there is no way guys can be objective in that situation. Mac has done a lot of really good things here, but bringing JMac on scholarship was a mistake IMO and showed some real lack of understanding of a major mistake made by one of his predecessors. JMO.

Look, it wouldn't bother me one bit if Jay wasn't on this team, but I don't think it's in the same ball park as Dan/Cody Hawkins, by nature of their positions. Besides, Jay was a 3* recruit with offers from Wyoming and Air Force. Seems par for the course for CU recruiting these days. :lol:

 

[pcbuff]

Look, it wouldn't bother me one bit if Jay wasn't on this team, but I don't think it's in the same ball park as Dan/Cody Hawkins, by nature of their positions. Besides, Jay was a 3* recruit with offers from Wyoming and Air Force. Seems par for the course for CU recruiting these days. :lol:

And he was given a full ride at a PAC 12 school. If my son, and I wanted him to play for me, the conversation would be "I will pay for your school and you can walk onto the team. you will be held to a different standard than any other child on the team. if you make a mistake you will be you will faced with consequencess. if another player is equal to you in talent they will play first. you will have unlimited access to me and I will teach you everything I can about the sport. I love you unconditionally, but my job pays our bills. the team will always come first. I want the opportunity to coach you, but you need to understand what you are getting into."

If not for the history, I also would have also liked for Mac to get the chance to coach his kid. Unfortunately, Hawk did happen. The K state give away did happen.

 

[Buffnik]

The Jay Mac comparisons to Cody are unjust, IMO. There's a big difference between WR and QB. You might have as many as four WRs in the game at once, and you might play as many as six in a game. There's usually only one QB that takes snaps in a game. Even if MM did play favorites with Jay Mac, it's not like doing so will take game snaps away from a deserving player.

I agree with you. I also think Jay Mac's going to be a damn fine player.

But I also respect those who had a problem with it. Once bitten, twice shy. I would just hope everyone is fair enough to judge Jay on his merits. The recruiting decision is a year in the books and he's one of our Buffs. We all should support him just like everyone else on the team.