Air Force vs. Navy

[Burrito]

:huh: ?????



Can't tell if you're trolling or if you're just misinformed ... but Billy's point was that the US Navy as it was constituted in the 1920's would be vulnerable to air attack, and less than twenty years later Pearl harbor proved him correct.

That seems more tactical than strategic.

 

[Uncle Ken]

That seems more tactical than strategic.

Not really. It was in the wake of the Washington conference, and Billy Mitchell was steering defense dollars in a particular direction. The money--which directed our broad strategy--was why it was so contentious with The Navy.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Not really. It was in the wake of the Washington conference, and Billy Mitchell was steering defense dollars in a particular direction. The money--which directed our broad strategy--was why it was so contentious with The Navy.

If your talking about the era I am thinking of the feeling was, with the advent of nuclear weapons, icbms, and bombers, the Navy was no longer needed. AF was very focused on the USSR. So much so that SAC got most of the dollars even stealing from the fighter wings to builder bombers, bombs, and missiles.

Then the Korean war happened and later Vietnam and all of a sudden the Navy looked pretty damn important again because they could deliver tactical aircraft in support of troops on the ground from just off shore. And the AF could not.

Oh, and someone invented the surface to air missile putting bombers at risk.

 

[L Buff]

If your talking about the era I am thinking of the feeling was, with the advent of nuclear weapons, icbms, and bombers, the Navy was no longer needed. AF was very focused on the USSR. So much so that SAC got most of the dollars even stealing from the fighter wings to builder bombers, bombs, and missiles.

Then the Korean war happened and later Vietnam and all of a sudden the Navy looked pretty damn important again because they could deliver tactical aircraft in support of troops on the ground from just off shore. And the AF could not.

Oh, and someone invented the surface to air missile putting bombers at risk.

We're talking about the post WWI era ... when the world's great powers thought that reducing armaments in the wake of the greatest world conflagration up to that time was a good idea. Since naval resources were going to be limited by treaty, Mitchell believed that sinking all those resources into battleships, which he considered obsolete with the advent of air power, was foolish.

He was court-martialed and essentially drummed out of the army ... but as I said he was proved right by Pearl Harbor. Fortunately, in the late 20's and 30's the Navy had come to its senses somewhat and built just enough aircraft carriers (which weren't at Pearl when it was attacked) that we could still whip the Japs at Midway and save the Pacific war.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

We're talking about the post WWI era ... when the world's great powers thought that reducing armaments in the wake of the greatest world conflagration up to that time was a good idea. Since naval resources were going to be limited by treaty, Mitchell believed that sinking all those resources into battleships, which he considered obsolete with the advent of air power, was foolish.

He was court-martialed and essentially drummed out of the army ... but as I said he was proved right by Pearl Harbor. Fortunately, in the late 20's and 30's the Navy had come to its senses somewhat and built just enough aircraft carriers (which weren't at Pearl when it was attacked) that we could still whip the Japs at Midway and save the Pacific war.

Is that the Potsdam treaty?

Ive not read as much on Naval History between WWI and WWII. I do recall there was an agreement to reduce arms but the strategies of WWI were vastly different than WWII. Trench warfare was still the the rule of the day with fixed armor. Then the tank was invented. Airplanes were really spotters in this time period though the pilots used to drop hand grenades on the enemies lines. I believe the Navy used planes in this period mostly to find conveys and other ships to direct their ships to. The planes back then were very spartan (fabric) compared to the equipment put forth in WWII.

If thats what Mitchell said he was right. Had the Navy had their carriers in Pearl that day things would have been quite different.

 

[L Buff]

Is that the Potsdam treaty?

Ive not read as much on Naval History between WWI and WWII. I do recall there was an agreement to reduce arms but the strategies of WWI were vastly different than WWII. Trench warfare was still the the rule of the day with fixed armor. Then the tank was invented. Airplanes were really spotters in this time period though the pilots used to drop hand grenades on the enemies lines. I believe the Navy used planes in this period mostly to find conveys and other ships to direct their ships to. The planes back then were very spartan (fabric) compared to the equipment put forth in WWII.

If thats what Mitchell said he was right. Had the Navy had their carriers in Pearl that day things would have been quite different.

It was the Washington Conference (as Orr pointed out). Potsdam was held in Germany at the conclusion of the end of WWII in the Europeran Theater (the Pacific war was not yet over). It was Truman's first conference as president, and where he received word that the atomic bomb had been successfully tested in NM.

Billy Mitchell had demonstrated that airplanes, even those as primitive as they were in the 1920s, could easily take out battleships that failed to have air cover (though some say the tests were questionably conducted). He was concerned that the Navy's investment in battleships would drain resources from naval aviation and US military aviation in general.

 

[Uncle Ken]

It was the Washington Conference (as Orr pointed out). Potsdam was held in Germany at the conclusion of the end of WWII in the Europeran Theater (the Pacific war was not yet over). It was Truman's first conference as president, and where he received word that the atomic bomb had been successfully tested in NM.

Billy Mitchell had demonstrated that airplanes, even those as primitive as they were in the 1920s, could easily take out battleships that failed to have air cover (though some say the tests were questionably conducted). He was concerned that the Navy's investment in battleships would drain resources from naval aviation and US military aviation in general.

My initial point was that Billy broke the rules and used 2000 lb. bombs against defenseless DIW battleships. It wasn't really a fair fight.

But I acknowledge that he was a visionary in the U.S.'s role in pursuing aviation for military means beyond simple bomb spotting/targeting purposes.

 

[Burrito]

Awesome football thread. I did actually google and learn about Billy because of you clowns. I am now more dangerous knowledgerically that I was this morning, and it's your fault.

 

[HotRack]

If your talking about the era I am thinking of the feeling was, with the advent of nuclear weapons, icbms, and bombers, the Navy was no longer needed. AF was very focused on the USSR. So much so that SAC got most of the dollars even stealing from the fighter wings to builder bombers, bombs, and missiles.

Until someone pulled their head out of their ass and realized bombers and ICBMs weren't survivable on a first strike (reason many so many were built, figured Russkies couldn't hit them all) so the 41 for Freedom were built and the USS George Washington went on her first strategic deterrent patrol. 5000 patrols later, and the SSBN force is the strongest leg of the nuclear triad and the leg upon which survivability depends.

 

[Burrito]

Until someone pulled their head out of their ass and realized bombers and ICBMs weren't survivable on a first strike (reason many so many were built, figured Russkies couldn't hit them all) so the 41 for Freedom were built and the USS George Washington went on her first strategic deterrent patrol. 5000 patrols later, and the SSBN force is the strongest leg of the nuclear triad and the leg upon which survivability depends.

You sneaky little bastards!

 

[HotRack]

You sneaky little bastards!

:nod: "Hide with Pride"

Oh, and hey, Zoomies....SUCK IT!

 

[Burrito]

:nod: "Hide with Pride"

Oh, and hey, Zoomies....SUCK IT!

Ha! Totally! Suck it, Zoomies!

 

[tante]

Lots of seamen lovers around here.

 

[L Buff]

Lots of seamen lovers around here.

Yeah ... particularly of long, dark, rigid, tubular vessels filled with seamen.




Hey ... we're still talking about submarines, right? :huh:

 

[dply]

Who's Billy Mitchell and why do I care?

 

[Burrito]

That dude could breathe underwater!

 

[CUSailor]

NAVY>>Chair Farce