All you ski haters.......

[rolandftw]

Wouldn't call myself a hater, but do think he shoots the outside shot too much. Even though he had a great game, still think he's a more efficient player when he shoots inside the arc. But hella of a game for Askia, as he clearly outplayed a McDonalds All-American in Selden

 

[tante]

Uncontested 15 footers? Yes. He has proven he can make that shot consistently. I also want Ski taking uncontested 15 footers. I don't want him taking contested 19 footers.

Scott took a shot one foot inside the arc.

 

[SECOBuffsFan]

what shot that he took versus Kansas did you not like. His shot selection has been very good this whole season. (except for the Baylor game)

Pretty sure I said that his shot selection vs. Kansas was good....which means I didn't think he took bad shots against Kansas....so I don't really have an answer for your question

 

[torero]

Scott took a shot one foot inside the arc.

I recall the Scott shot on a pick and pop from near the top of the key. From my perspective on the opposite end of the floor, it seemed to be one step inside the 3 point line which would put it at about an 18 footer. I don't have a shot chart in front of me. He made it. You are being needlessly pedantic.

 

[tante]

I recall the Scott shot on a pick and pop from near the top of the key. From my perspective on the opposite end of the floor, it seemed to be one step inside the 3 point line which would put it at about an 18 footer. I don't have a shot chart in front of me. He made it. You are being needlessly pedantic.

No I am trying to prove a point. People will justify any other players shot under any conditions but unnecessarily criticize Booker for his play. You are doing a great job helping me prove that point.

 

[SECOBuffsFan]

He takes bad shots.....some of the times because the offense bogs down and he is one of the few who can create a shot (Dinwiddie does the same thing with bad shots as well) and other times because he gets tunnel vision and forces things. Its as much Boyle's fault as his on that end of it....but it doesn't take away from the fact that he forces those shot. Doesn't make all people who question his shot selection haters....I think he is a great Buff and I am glad he plays for CU

 

[jgisland]

No I am trying to prove a point. People will justify any other players shot under any conditions but unnecessarily criticize Booker for his play. You are doing a great job helping me prove that point.

I hated Scott's shot

 

[tante]

He takes bad shots.....some of the times because the offense bogs down and he is one of the few who can create a shot (Dinwiddie does the same thing with bad shots as well) and other times because he gets tunnel vision and forces things. Its as much Boyle's fault as his on that end of it....but it doesn't take away from the fact that he forces those shot. Doesn't make all people who question his shot selection haters....I think he is a great Buff and I am glad he plays for CU

okay outside of Baylor, what bad shots are you seeing. this is a lazy analysis on your part. I can sense jg building a shot chart as we speak to destroy this myth.

 

[torero]

No I am trying to prove a point. People will justify any other players shot under any conditions but unnecessarily criticize Booker for his play. You are doing a great job helping me prove that point.

Your point is ridiculous. There is a HUGE difference between a contested jumper and an open jumper. The numbers guys will give you all you need to know about the difference between a long 2 and a 3, but I will shower you in rep if you can find someone who thinks a contested long 2 early in the shot clock is a good shot. Because it isn't. The key word is contested. I don't want any player shooting contested long 2s. I have yet to see Scott shoot a contested long 2. I've seen him make plenty of open long 2s, while missing a few too. Ski's biggest weakness, IMO, is bad shots. A contested long 2 early in the shot clock is unequivocally a bad shot. This team needs Ski to be good to be a contender. Ski was very good Saturday. Your point is WEAK.

 

[tante]

I hated Scott's shot

I yelled. "that's not your shot"

 

[tante]

Your point is ridiculous. There is a HUGE difference between a contested jumper and an open jumper. The numbers guys will give you all you need to know about the difference between a long 2 and a 3, but I will shower you in rep if you can find someone who thinks a contested long 2 early in the shot clock is a good shot. Because it isn't. The key word is contested. I don't want any player shooting contested long 2s. I have yet to see Scott shoot a contested long 2. I've seen him make plenty of open long 2s, while missing a few too. Ski's biggest weakness, IMO, is bad shots. A contested long 2 early in the shot clock is unequivocally a bad shot. This team needs Ski to be good to be a contender. Ski was very good Saturday. Your point is WEAK.

just so you know, ski is guarded by guards so the vast majority of his shots are going to be contested. either someone else is going to have to drive and create a breakdown in coverage so he is open or he is going to have to create space to get his shot off. at no point is he going to get the ball at the top of the arc while his defender sits back 6 feet waiting for him to try and knock it down.

 

[torero]

I hated Scott's shot

You being the king of numbers guys around here, are there metrics at the college level for contested vs. uncontested shots? I know they're making great strides in the NBA, but am unsure about in college. Please share if there are.

 

[tante]

i too lazy to do research to help me prove my point, can you do it for me?

fify

 

[torero]

just so you know, ski is guarded by guards so the vast majority of his shots are going to be contested. either someone else is going to have to drive and create a breakdown in coverage so he is open or he is going to have to create space to get his shot off. at no point is he going to get the ball at the top of the arc while his defender sits back 6 feet waiting for him to try and knock it down.

This is entirely accurate. It still doesn't change the fact that long contested 2s are bad shots.

 

[tante]

This is entirely accurate. It still doesn't change the fact that long contested 2s are bad shots.

and nobody is arguing that.

 

[torero]

fify

How about JG is really damn good with these advanced metrics. I'm not. But I do know the game of basketball. Or do you want to somehow try to prove that a long contested 2 early in the shot clock is a good shot?

 

[jgisland]

You being the king of numbers guys around here, are there metrics at the college level for contested vs. uncontested shots? I know they're making great strides in the NBA, but am unsure about in college. Please share if there are.

No, there are not

This is entirely accurate. It still doesn't change the fact that long contested 2s are bad shots.

I'd counter that a long uncontested 2 is also a bad shot

 

[SECOBuffsFan]

okay outside of Baylor, what bad shots are you seeing. this is a lazy analysis on your part. I can sense jg building a shot chart as we speak to destroy this myth.

Any shot he has taken where he is not in balance is a bad shot. Especially when he is good enough to plant hard and rise up in balance at the free throw time anytime he drives...but he has gotten it in his head that he needs to fade or drift. The 3 he hit in the corner late in the Kansas game was a perfect example of a good shot that Ski takes. He doesn't take the time to get in balance BEFORE the pass in those spot up situation consistently enough. That is why his 3 point percentage is sub 30%. He is too good of a shooter to have those kind of numbers.

 

[torero]

I'd counter that a long uncontested 2 is also a bad shot

That is something I've definitely gathered from the advanced metrics revolution. I don't know if I agree, but I understand the expected point total and metrics point to say it is. Just a hill too far for me to climb at this point, growing up in the school that open shots are good shots. I'm trying to evolve with the advanced metrics, but some old habits that still seem like they are accurate to me are hard to break free from.

 

[tante]

Any shot he has taken where he is not in balance is a bad shot. Especially when he is good enough to plant hard and rise up in balance at the free throw time anytime he drives...but he has gotten it in his head that he needs to fade or drift. The 3 he hit in the corner late in the Kansas game was a perfect example of a good shot that Ski takes. He doesn't take the time to get in balance BEFORE the pass in those spot up situation consistently enough. That is why his 3 point percentage is sub 30%. He is too good of a shooter to have those kind of numbers.

like that game winner he just made. :thumbsup:

 

[SECOBuffsFan]

The game winner he was in balance because of the second step

 

[Flatirons2]

Your point is ridiculous. There is a HUGE difference between a contested jumper and an open jumper. The numbers guys will give you all you need to know about the difference between a long 2 and a 3, but I will shower you in rep if you can find someone who thinks a contested long 2 early in the shot clock is a good shot. Because it isn't. The key word is contested. I don't want any player shooting contested long 2s. I have yet to see Scott shoot a contested long 2. I've seen him make plenty of open long 2s, while missing a few too. Ski's biggest weakness, IMO, is bad shots. A contested long 2 early in the shot clock is unequivocally a bad shot. This team needs Ski to be good to be a contender. Ski was very good Saturday. Your point is WEAK.

I'd venture Boyle has instructed Scott to shoot the long ball because he is aware via practice that he can make it also it serves a multitude of purposes, ie. stretches the defense...a 5 that can shoot it and make it with any consistency merits being guarded and leaves the lane wide open for cutters. As far as ski goes, he winds up taking 1/2 of the shots he does because the other 4 players are stagnant..shot clock winds down and he has to do something<<not to change the subject but this is what Dinwiddie is doing more of recently and it's getting him a ton of FTs. Ski's energy alone is worth points, against Harvard his energy got the team over the hump and got the others going. I'm not at practice Boyle is and he knows what he has on the court when ski is on it...coach can live it so can I.

 

[jgisland]

Any shot he has taken where he is not in balance is a bad shot. Especially when he is good enough to plant hard and rise up in balance at the free throw time anytime he drives...but he has gotten it in his head that he needs to fade or drift. The 3 he hit in the corner late in the Kansas game was a perfect example of a good shot that Ski takes. He doesn't take the time to get in balance BEFORE the pass in those spot up situation consistently enough. That is why his 3 point percentage is sub 30%. He is too good of a shooter to have those kind of numbers.

This is totally a fair assessment IMO. But what I b****** about all of last yr I can no longer. While he could afford to be more on balance when he does shoot, the spots on the court he's taking shots from are much better.

If you take out the Baylor game - he's taking 27.9% of shots from mid range this year, last yr he took 41.5% from mid range, that's a significant difference. He's still not efficient from mid range on the shots he takes from there, but overall he's dramatically more efficient b/c he takes less shots from his least efficient place.

 

[jgisland]

That is something I've definitely gathered from the advanced metrics revolution. I don't know if I agree, but I understand the expected point total and metrics point to say it is. Just a hill too far for me to climb at this point, growing up in the school that open shots are good shots. I'm trying to evolve with the advanced metrics, but some old habits that still seem like they are accurate to me are hard to break free from.

Totally fair, sometimes an open shot is an open shot, just shoot the damn thing.

 

[azbuff]

The "problem" with Ski is not necessarily whether his shot is contested or not. It is whether he is balanced when he takes the shot. Even on the last desperation shot, he was square, not fading away and/or with unbalanced shoulders/hips.

 

[Ruckus]

Totally fair, sometimes an open shot is an open shot, just shoot the damn thing.

Especially considering the alternative (in the case of Scott's long jumper) is him being two feet further out in 3-point range, which is likely out of his range, or him being two feet closer, which is still a long two and would be more contested because he'd be closer to the defense. I suppose another alternative is he could have driven, but that opens up turnover opportunities. And if he looked to pass from there, it's likely we don't get a better shot look for the rest of the possession.

You don't always get "good" shots in basketball. Can't always be open, can't always be layups or threes, can't always be in balance. So when those possessions happen, someone has to take the shot. Most often the ball is in Spencer's hands or Ski's hands. Spencer has a high draft stock and the length to get to the basket and draw a foul. Ski is smaller and quick enough to get a shot off that has a chance to go in without getting blocked, but obviously they will be lower percentage.

That's just how it goes. I'd rather ski take those shots than anyone else except spencer.

 

[Ruckus]

The "problem" with Ski is not necessarily whether his shot is contested or not. It is whether he is balanced when he takes the shot. Even on the last desperation shot, he was square, not fading away and/or with unbalanced shoulders/hips.

If he's always balanced, he'll have more shots get blocked. Blocked shots have 0% rate or going in. Worse than unbalanced.

 

[wyobuff]

I'm hoping that hitting 3 big 3's in this contest (The one right before half, the one late in the game where he was wide open and the game winner) that it really bumps up his confidence. I've mentioned this in other threads before but after he missed that game tying 3 at the end when fUCLA was in town, it seemed like he never shot the same (or played with the same energy, except v Illinois). Hopefully, this gives him a much needed confidence boost and it comes through in his play.

 

[SECOBuffsFan]

If he's always balanced, he'll have more shots get blocked. Blocked shots have 0% rate or going in. Worse than unbalanced.

Don't agree with you on that...blocked shots more often than not come from weakside help rotation. If Booker is getting shots blocked it is because of over penetrating the lane and getting into the trees too much. Driving hard and getting your guy off balanced, sticking your jump stop and then rising straight up is a shot Booker should go to more and that shot will hardly ever get blocked.

 

[absinthe]

gets lost on defense all the time. He's a 6th man, bench scorer.

I am surprised no one touched on this point from TD on the first page. I am not sure we are all watching the same games. Ski is one of our best on ball defenders, a good defensive rebounder, and is by far our most vocal player on defense. He's anything but lost.