whatthebuff
Club Member
Leaky Trojans, leaky Trojans, leaky leaky Trojans...never a good sign!
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An early look at the Pac-12 in 2012
- Thread starter mattrob
- Start date
For intra-conference transfers, the Pac-12 pretty much goes by the NCAA rules. Players only sit out the one year.
However, it looks like the conference doesn't allow the transfer to receive athletic financial aid during that year of residence while he/she is sitting out.
Much more friendly than the Big 12 was (2 years away from competition), but still enough to discourage poaching from your rivals.
http://compliance.pac-10.org/thetools/4yrtrans.pdf
Tempe_Buff
Well-Known Member
He is graduating in may early. I had a few classes with him... He is a genius. doesn't that mean he does not have to sit out a year.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
Correct. Since he'll be a grad and have some eligibility left, he can go play somewhere else, providing the school he transfers to offers a grad program or degree that his current school does not.
Man, ASU is a wreck right now. With them, USC and Utah, the bottom three teams are really going to drag this conference down again next year.
Yup. The one player that ASU fans could look forward to next season (I believe he was the 35th ranked recruit in 2011) is tweeting that he wants out. How Sendek is surviving is beyond me -- and I was a big fan of his before he went to ASU.
ASU reminds me of what CU basketball had been for years prior to Tad getting here. Brief glimpses of success surrounded by years and years of ineptitude. The big difference is that they have to try to compete, basketball wise, against UofA. We don't have another school in the state with that kind of profile. It's going to be tough for ASU to pull out of this giant hole.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Always respected him at NCSU and he definitely got a bad rap there. I thought leaving for Tempe would be great for him -- that he could finally thrive in Tempe, such a non-pressure cooker atmosphere compared to basketball at NCSU. Well...
Buffs@5345'
Club Member
Very nice thread - thanks to the contributors. Will loop back to get some rep out on the earlier posts. My take on the leadership is that Ski is the most likely vocal leader for the team. Dre doesn't appear to take that role on the court, and Spencer's play through this season seemed to develop more in the area of comfort when getting/taking scoring looks than in game flow and direction. IMO Ski sometimes looked lost due to bad pass turnovers, etc - but it also always seemed that he was studying the way Nate lead the team and managed possessions - almost as if coach Boyle was having him work on those aspects.
Just my impression and there are others who are closer to the program or more studied, but my take on next years leadership responsibilities would be:
Ski - Court/gameflow manager, direct traffic and implement Coach Boyle's gameplan
Dre - Experience and Clubhouse leader. Bring the intensity and set the expectations for the young guys about what the work ethic is to succeed in this program.
Mayor - Scoring/Lead by getting it done on the court
others
Chen - Intensity - he is going to get a bad wrap because most casual fans missed the early games in the season when he was playing more minutes and giving Ski and Mayor a chance to acclimate. During the OOC and early PAC12 home games he was crucial in allowing our starters to rest while keeping the opposition from going on easy runs. I think he set the tone for the Freshmen this season, and his attitude and effort will be the benchmark for any newcomers that want to see additional minutes.
SHT - I actually have decent hope here. This season gave him some much needed exposure to get minutes in and gain comfort on the court. Plugging the middle is chaotic and fast paced, and experience matters. Hopefully he will feel less need to 'think' on the court and that will result in fewer highly visible miscues. Some of those short range shots are feathery soft, and I hope that he is one we are counting on for strong senior leadership in 13-14.
Freshmen - No one would argue that Ski and Mayor were fundamental to the unexpected success this season. They were anticipated, but not nearly to the extent that our incoming freshmen will be. Trying to stay grounded on expectations - but one or both of our top guys could make the contributions of the Freshmen this past year seem, well, normal at the least.
Just my impression and there are others who are closer to the program or more studied, but my take on next years leadership responsibilities would be:
Ski - Court/gameflow manager, direct traffic and implement Coach Boyle's gameplan
Dre - Experience and Clubhouse leader. Bring the intensity and set the expectations for the young guys about what the work ethic is to succeed in this program.
Mayor - Scoring/Lead by getting it done on the court
others
Chen - Intensity - he is going to get a bad wrap because most casual fans missed the early games in the season when he was playing more minutes and giving Ski and Mayor a chance to acclimate. During the OOC and early PAC12 home games he was crucial in allowing our starters to rest while keeping the opposition from going on easy runs. I think he set the tone for the Freshmen this season, and his attitude and effort will be the benchmark for any newcomers that want to see additional minutes.
SHT - I actually have decent hope here. This season gave him some much needed exposure to get minutes in and gain comfort on the court. Plugging the middle is chaotic and fast paced, and experience matters. Hopefully he will feel less need to 'think' on the court and that will result in fewer highly visible miscues. Some of those short range shots are feathery soft, and I hope that he is one we are counting on for strong senior leadership in 13-14.
Freshmen - No one would argue that Ski and Mayor were fundamental to the unexpected success this season. They were anticipated, but not nearly to the extent that our incoming freshmen will be. Trying to stay grounded on expectations - but one or both of our top guys could make the contributions of the Freshmen this past year seem, well, normal at the least.
jgisland
Club Member
Looks like they changed the rules for declaring for the draft this year, here is some info I just ran across. (has impact on a few PAC 12 players possibly, wroten, ross, cunningham)
First, the applicable dates:
April 3: NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Application Deadline
April 6: NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Response Deadline
April 10: NCAA Early Entry“Withdrawal”Deadline
April 29: NBA Draft Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 pm ET)
May 3 or May 4: NBA Draft Early Entry Candidates Released
May 30: NBA Draft Lottery
June 6-8: NBA Combine/Pre-Draft Camp (Chicago)
June 18: NBA Draft Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline (5:00 pm ET)
June 28: 2012 NBA Draft
The main change that occurred this year involves the NCAA's unilaterally imposed “early-entry withdrawal deadline” of April 10th.
According toNCAA Proposal No. 2010-24, “student-athletes interested in 'testing the waters' of the NBA draft [are required] to remove their name from consideration before the first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period.”
The first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period is April 11th this year, meaning that any player that makes himself eligible for the NBA draft before thenmust remove itby April 10th in order to retain his collegiate eligibility.
Last year college players had until May 8th to evaluate their professional options, which gave them about a week to work out for NBA teams and gather feedback about their NBA draft stock. College players (like their international counterparts, who are not bound by the NCAA's rules) used to have until ten days before the draft (this year June 18th) to do their research and gather as much information as possible before making such an important decision for their future.
What this essentially means is thatthere is no more “testing the waters” anymore.
First, the applicable dates:
April 3: NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Application Deadline
April 6: NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Response Deadline
April 10: NCAA Early Entry“Withdrawal”Deadline
April 29: NBA Draft Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 pm ET)
May 3 or May 4: NBA Draft Early Entry Candidates Released
May 30: NBA Draft Lottery
June 6-8: NBA Combine/Pre-Draft Camp (Chicago)
June 18: NBA Draft Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline (5:00 pm ET)
June 28: 2012 NBA Draft
The main change that occurred this year involves the NCAA's unilaterally imposed “early-entry withdrawal deadline” of April 10th.
According toNCAA Proposal No. 2010-24, “student-athletes interested in 'testing the waters' of the NBA draft [are required] to remove their name from consideration before the first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period.”
The first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period is April 11th this year, meaning that any player that makes himself eligible for the NBA draft before thenmust remove itby April 10th in order to retain his collegiate eligibility.
Last year college players had until May 8th to evaluate their professional options, which gave them about a week to work out for NBA teams and gather feedback about their NBA draft stock. College players (like their international counterparts, who are not bound by the NCAA's rules) used to have until ten days before the draft (this year June 18th) to do their research and gather as much information as possible before making such an important decision for their future.
What this essentially means is thatthere is no more “testing the waters” anymore.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Absolutely critical years for some head coaches in this conference. I've bolded those who are almost certainly in "win or go home" situations for next season:
Oregon State: It's time for the Beavs to make a move and at least be a serious contender for to Dance for the first time in over 20 years. This is going to be Robinson's 5th year. It's time to prove he can get it done. After their impressive OOC showing early this year (best in the Pac-12), their conference performance was underwhelming to say the least. They haven't even sniffed the NIT yet under Robinson. Not even a single NIT appearance in 4 years? We always see flashes from OSU (knocked off Washington in the P12 tourney, for instance), but in typical fashion, their season ended with a thud tonight with an ugly loss to Wazzu in the CBI. Sure, the CBI padded OSU's win total to 21-15, but let's not kid ourselves. Next year is crucial for the Beavs. Personally, I'm not impressed with Robinson. I don't think he has what it takes to get this team to show the tenacity and cohesiveness to Dance.
Arizona State: These are desperate times for Sendek. The last two seasons have been nightmares, and the immediate future looks rather break. Still, do not count him out. This situation is nothing compared to the venom he was facing in 2001 -- 5 seasons in Raleigh, yet to make March Madness. He was left for dead, and how did he respond? Making the Dance each of his final 5 seasons in Raleigh. However, if ASU can't find a way to get into the middle of the pack and post a winning record, this is going to be the end of the road for Herbie's tenure in the desert.
UCLA: Ben Howland needs to return UCLA at or near the top of the standings and put them in good shape for a decent run in the Big Dance. Bottom line there.
USC: Patience has grown thin with Kevin O'Neil amongst USC's 5 or 6 basketball fans. Yes, they made the Dance as recently as last season, but even the Trojan diehards recognize that it was a major stretch that team even made that final 68 (19-15 record). Obviously this year was an absolute disaster for them -- bad luck with injuries or not, you simply cannot finish 1-17 in the Pac-12 this year. O'Neil was also coming across like a complete quitter as early as January, and that's really not what you like to see from a head coach. They should be improved this season, but there's a longggg way to go for them. If USC gets hopelessly buried again next season, this will undoubtedly be the end of the road for O'Neil.
Arizona: Questions are creeping in about Miller's ability with developing talent, along with x's and o's. NIT First Round home losses to Bucknell simply won't cut it in Tucson for long. The 'Cats will be young, but they'll need to show vast improvement or the grumblings are going to get loud. This is one of this situations where team chemistry issues could present a major struggle if Miller doesn't walk a fine line
Washington State: Of all Pac-12 coaches I was surprised to hear a bunch of frustration with, Bone is undoubtedly the one. Tony Bennett set a high standard to be matched, but let's face it, establishing a winner in Pullman is tough. Currently finishing up his third year, Bone had the Cougs in the NIT Semis last year in MSG with Klay Thompson. This year, however, they took a step back despite having some solid play from Brock Motum. Bone's job is certainly in no immediate danger or anything, but Wazzu fans were very frustrated for much of this season, I think in large point due to what Tad was doing this season minus Burks and Higgins. Still, the Cougs are now 18-16 and in the CBI Championship series. This is a deep sleeper for next year to surprise if some of the young talent clicks.
Stanford: There has been frustration growing against Dawkins starting to appear this season. You gotta remember, Stanford had a fantastic run of success. They're used to a winner, and in his first 3 years, Dawkins wasn't able to get things off the ground. However, in this season, the Carindal pulled out of their mid-season slump and Dawkins has them in MSG for the NIT Semifinals. The heat is off for now, but with a solid class coming in, Cardinal fans are going go be expecting to breakthrough a finally dance.
Oregon: Interesting position developing here. Given all the upperclassman leadership they had this year, this was a golden opportunity for the Ducks to take control and go to the Dance. However, the Ducks ended up not being able to make it past the Quarterfinals of the P12 nor the Quarterfinals of the NIT. Going to be interesting to see how they fare next year. You get the feeling they missed a golden opportunity to Dance this year, and that they will likely be taking a step back in a season when the league as a whole shows a significant upgrade.
Cal: Again, this past season has to be looked on with regret. If there was ever a year for Cal to win the conference championship and have a solid run in the Dance, this was it. They're due for a serious drop off next year (is Montgomery even sticking around?). Would be shocked if the Bears did anything beyond squeaking into the NIT.
Washington: The NIT is theirs to lose, not that that means a whole lot other than proving it was ridiculous for the Huskies to not get a bid. They should be a force next year, but it's really too early to get a read on these guys with all the talented players and what that may or may not bring.
Utah: Krystkowiak needs time. Lots of it. I'm sure they'll improve, but this is a longterm project for the Utes to say the least.
I'll go into much more detail on CU a little later. However, in short, I'll close by saying I think we're going to be in for a fantastic fight next year in conference play. Arizona, UCLA and Washington look to be the main threats, but with UCLA and Arizona's respective coaching/chemistry issues, we may find ourselves in a conference ripe for the taking yet again. Oregon State and Stanford are certainly worth keeping eyes on as well, although coaching is perhaps an issue with each.
The European trip will be invaluable to us. Crossing my fingers our OOC puts us in position to receive an at-large without having to win like 25 games. Since, you know, just in case...:thumbsup:
So pumped! Go Buffs!!
Oregon State: It's time for the Beavs to make a move and at least be a serious contender for to Dance for the first time in over 20 years. This is going to be Robinson's 5th year. It's time to prove he can get it done. After their impressive OOC showing early this year (best in the Pac-12), their conference performance was underwhelming to say the least. They haven't even sniffed the NIT yet under Robinson. Not even a single NIT appearance in 4 years? We always see flashes from OSU (knocked off Washington in the P12 tourney, for instance), but in typical fashion, their season ended with a thud tonight with an ugly loss to Wazzu in the CBI. Sure, the CBI padded OSU's win total to 21-15, but let's not kid ourselves. Next year is crucial for the Beavs. Personally, I'm not impressed with Robinson. I don't think he has what it takes to get this team to show the tenacity and cohesiveness to Dance.
Arizona State: These are desperate times for Sendek. The last two seasons have been nightmares, and the immediate future looks rather break. Still, do not count him out. This situation is nothing compared to the venom he was facing in 2001 -- 5 seasons in Raleigh, yet to make March Madness. He was left for dead, and how did he respond? Making the Dance each of his final 5 seasons in Raleigh. However, if ASU can't find a way to get into the middle of the pack and post a winning record, this is going to be the end of the road for Herbie's tenure in the desert.
UCLA: Ben Howland needs to return UCLA at or near the top of the standings and put them in good shape for a decent run in the Big Dance. Bottom line there.
USC: Patience has grown thin with Kevin O'Neil amongst USC's 5 or 6 basketball fans. Yes, they made the Dance as recently as last season, but even the Trojan diehards recognize that it was a major stretch that team even made that final 68 (19-15 record). Obviously this year was an absolute disaster for them -- bad luck with injuries or not, you simply cannot finish 1-17 in the Pac-12 this year. O'Neil was also coming across like a complete quitter as early as January, and that's really not what you like to see from a head coach. They should be improved this season, but there's a longggg way to go for them. If USC gets hopelessly buried again next season, this will undoubtedly be the end of the road for O'Neil.
Arizona: Questions are creeping in about Miller's ability with developing talent, along with x's and o's. NIT First Round home losses to Bucknell simply won't cut it in Tucson for long. The 'Cats will be young, but they'll need to show vast improvement or the grumblings are going to get loud. This is one of this situations where team chemistry issues could present a major struggle if Miller doesn't walk a fine line
Washington State: Of all Pac-12 coaches I was surprised to hear a bunch of frustration with, Bone is undoubtedly the one. Tony Bennett set a high standard to be matched, but let's face it, establishing a winner in Pullman is tough. Currently finishing up his third year, Bone had the Cougs in the NIT Semis last year in MSG with Klay Thompson. This year, however, they took a step back despite having some solid play from Brock Motum. Bone's job is certainly in no immediate danger or anything, but Wazzu fans were very frustrated for much of this season, I think in large point due to what Tad was doing this season minus Burks and Higgins. Still, the Cougs are now 18-16 and in the CBI Championship series. This is a deep sleeper for next year to surprise if some of the young talent clicks.
Stanford: There has been frustration growing against Dawkins starting to appear this season. You gotta remember, Stanford had a fantastic run of success. They're used to a winner, and in his first 3 years, Dawkins wasn't able to get things off the ground. However, in this season, the Carindal pulled out of their mid-season slump and Dawkins has them in MSG for the NIT Semifinals. The heat is off for now, but with a solid class coming in, Cardinal fans are going go be expecting to breakthrough a finally dance.
Oregon: Interesting position developing here. Given all the upperclassman leadership they had this year, this was a golden opportunity for the Ducks to take control and go to the Dance. However, the Ducks ended up not being able to make it past the Quarterfinals of the P12 nor the Quarterfinals of the NIT. Going to be interesting to see how they fare next year. You get the feeling they missed a golden opportunity to Dance this year, and that they will likely be taking a step back in a season when the league as a whole shows a significant upgrade.
Cal: Again, this past season has to be looked on with regret. If there was ever a year for Cal to win the conference championship and have a solid run in the Dance, this was it. They're due for a serious drop off next year (is Montgomery even sticking around?). Would be shocked if the Bears did anything beyond squeaking into the NIT.
Washington: The NIT is theirs to lose, not that that means a whole lot other than proving it was ridiculous for the Huskies to not get a bid. They should be a force next year, but it's really too early to get a read on these guys with all the talented players and what that may or may not bring.
Utah: Krystkowiak needs time. Lots of it. I'm sure they'll improve, but this is a longterm project for the Utes to say the least.
I'll go into much more detail on CU a little later. However, in short, I'll close by saying I think we're going to be in for a fantastic fight next year in conference play. Arizona, UCLA and Washington look to be the main threats, but with UCLA and Arizona's respective coaching/chemistry issues, we may find ourselves in a conference ripe for the taking yet again. Oregon State and Stanford are certainly worth keeping eyes on as well, although coaching is perhaps an issue with each.
The European trip will be invaluable to us. Crossing my fingers our OOC puts us in position to receive an at-large without having to win like 25 games. Since, you know, just in case...:thumbsup:
So pumped! Go Buffs!!
Last edited:
btbuff
It's an inside joke
Cunningham will test NBA waters.
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors/_/id/7007/display/
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors/_/id/7007/display/
If Jared leaves the Beavs, they go from a sleeper pick to a CBI team.
jgisland
Club Member
I know that there has been some talk about the P12 being better next year, but is it really going to be?
Outside of the graduating SR's, the conference is going to lose Lockett for sure and possibly Cunningham, Ross and Wroten.
UCLA should be better, Arizona has a great recruiting class coming in, but they lost a lot, those Freshman are going to have to come in and contribute. ASU was bad and got worse with Lockett leaving, Oregon St gets worse with Cunningham leaving. Depending on Wroten and Ross UW could very well be worse. Utah is going to struggle for a few years. USC is going to be terrible. CAL, Stanford and Oregon should all be decent. I am just not so sure this conf is going to be much better next year.
Outside of the graduating SR's, the conference is going to lose Lockett for sure and possibly Cunningham, Ross and Wroten.
UCLA should be better, Arizona has a great recruiting class coming in, but they lost a lot, those Freshman are going to have to come in and contribute. ASU was bad and got worse with Lockett leaving, Oregon St gets worse with Cunningham leaving. Depending on Wroten and Ross UW could very well be worse. Utah is going to struggle for a few years. USC is going to be terrible. CAL, Stanford and Oregon should all be decent. I am just not so sure this conf is going to be much better next year.
Can't be worse. I have to go in thinking that the top 5 teams will be able to notch a few Top 50 RPI wins this time around.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly. People assuming that Zona and UCLA are going to just flip a switch and return to dominance overnight are getting way ahead of themselves. Cal and Oregon are going to take steps back. Washington is a mystery at this point. I'd have doubts about Oregon State even with Cunningham because frankly I don't think Craig Robinson is a very good coach. Without him, let's be honest: OSU is going to suck. The bottom of the conference is going to continue to be horrendous.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
really need a solid ooc schedule.
I think UCLA's a bit of a sleeping giant. They really underachieved last year, but I do think they'll be much better in 2012. Arizona is a wildcard. There's a lot of talent though, and they COULD be pretty good. As you mentioned, Washington's dependent on Ross and Wroten and we'll know more soon. I also think Stanford could surprise next year. The bottom of the conference will be awful again though. I don't think we'll see the Pac-12 challenging the Big East or ACC for conference dominance, but I do think there will be 2-3 teams who are clearly superior to the 2011-12 Cal team at the top.
jgisland
Club Member
Wroten's final game at UW?
3/27/12 8:46 PM Wroten starts half on the bench. Hasn't played since Romar angrily sent him to the bench after a blow-by. |
huge loss for Washington. This is good for CU but bad for the PAC. It just seems like the PAC players want to leave early, where are the Sullinger, Perry Jones and Harrison Barnes from the PAC? Obviously Burks could have stayed another year and been a huge difference maker for us when we needed someone to carry the offense, but Derrick Williams at Arizona would have made that team extremely dangerous and a definite tourney team. I know that most players don't stick around for their senior year, but how do schools like Duke, Kentucky, and so many damn Big 10 school get that great mix of seniors going to the NBA and one or two year NBA studs.
Big loss. There goes UW from title contention.
If Ross and Cunningham leave, I think that leaves a top 4 of UCLA, Arizona, CU and Stanford.