Apparently the sky is falling

[boydbuff]

Boyd, I would caution you to be careful about casting people who are criticizing certain aspects of the program or AD as not supporting the program or being behind Mac - these are not mutually exclusive positions. I suspect most of these "negative ABers" have supported this program for a long time. They are alums, donors, season ticket holders, and they buy the $35 t-shirts.

Criticism is a hell of a lot better than apathy - it's good when people still give a damn after a decade of suck.

Valid point for sure. I know that 99% of all ABers care deeply about the Buffs-if they didn't they wouldn't waste their time on here-sure there are a few trolls, but I am not addressing my criticism to trolls, but rather the faction of the 99% who I feel, personally, are being unfair to HCMM and our current commits.

It is my opinion, that HCMM deserves our support right now. We have been through so much crap, and our current players have too. Just as HCMM is making a concerted effort to build back some of their self-esteem and make them believe in themselves, I believe us fans should try to move away from the negativity of the past few years, of the hell that was Embree's firing and old Mac's (and some of the B4L crowd's) slandering of the Administration.

I am suggesting that rather than slam on HCMM and our recruits why not support HCMM and our recruits unless or until they show they are not able to make progress on the field? Can we wait til at least October to let major negativity creep back into our program-and only if it is deserved based on the on-field performance?

I guess I am asking too much and maybe I am a sunshine pumper but I am tired of the negativity from the past several years, and want to believe HCMM is the guy to turn things around. And I will support him and his recruits until he proves he is not. That's all I am saying and I am going to shut up now

 

[SINKRATZ]

That's fair, but to me it's not about negativity or trying to slam coach or his recruits - I've been critical of the early results and part of that stems from the decision not to upgrade his staff with a top flight recruiter when we had the budget to do so, but I still want the best for this program and would love nothing more than for Mac to win a bunch of games and make me look like an idiot.

This happens a lot around here - most of us wanted Embree fired by September last year, but we still rooted for the Buffs to win every game. It's stupid, unfair, contradictory, and still seems perfectly appropriate!

 

[White_Rabbit]

Don't mistake my criticism of recruiting as not being behind Mac. I really like him and his staff. I kind of wish we had another solid recruiter, but it is what it is. I really like that this staff is down to work a lot harder than Hawk's crew. They seem to get the concept of simplifying the offense. They have already worked wonders with Connor Wood. Plenty to like, but until we show up against CSU and bitch slap them, I'm remaining skeptical. Embree's staff got a lot out of Conrad Obi and Toney Clemons when Hawk's crew did not. That didn't end up meaning much.

It's the offseason and discussions like these gives us something to talk about.

 

[Duff Man]

What's funny is the debate will likely be the same three years from now. Unless you think MacIntyre is going 1-11 or 11-2 in year three, this debate will still be very relevant.

 

[Liver]

What's funny is the debate will likely be the same three years from now. Unless you think MacIntyre is going 1-11 or 11-2 in year three, this debate will still be very relevant.

can i vote for 11-2?

we have had more than our share of the other kind of season lately.

 

[BlackNGold]

I just have a question and I'm in vacation mode so bear with me. What if Mac actually knows what the hell he is doing even if it takes 2 to 3 years? Just wondered.

And I did not start the thread acting like the counter point of view have no right to express. I hope he does know what he is doing and he does get it turned around. I just do not see it happening in 2 to 3 years, that is my point.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

You!

 

[buffaholic]

One of you aholes is John Henderson:
Random thoughts: Maybe I'm reading too much into this but Colorado has hardly beaten any big schools for the seven verbal commits. #cubuffs
? John Henderson (@JohnHendersonDP) July 3, 2013

 

[buffaholic]

How does it feel to either:

1. Be John Henderson
2. Be feeding John Henderson
3. Be thinking alike with the Dbag

 

[Dark Bohner]

Just win baby.

 

[SINKRATZ]

How does it feel to either:

1. Be John Henderson
2. Be feeding John Henderson
3. Be thinking alike with the Dbag

Henderson doesn't need our help to be a prick.

 

[77buff]

I'm not asking you to be patient. I'm just asking you to accept reality. It's not 1990 anymore. It's not 1994 anymore. It's not 2001 anymore. Those days are long gone. The lack of facilities, the anti-athletic (or at the best, incompetent) administration , the revolving door head coaches, etc. aren't excuses. They're facts. And they're not just things that CU fans notice. They're things recruits and families of recruits know, too.

As for "ready to see some actual progress" - when is the first game going to be played? September 1. Chances are it will be a year or two from that before you see any "actual progress."

The administration has been the biggest obstacle for football since GB left. Until that changes, our program will suffer.

 

[Buffenuf]

So you apparently acknowledge this, then trash on the "doom and gloom" crowd by saying we're complaining for no reason? This is why we're not overly pleased. Bad recruiting almost always gets you bad teams. We saw this last year. Last year was a combination of bad talent development and bad coaching. Hopefully we fixed the second part, but we're not currently fixing the first part. That's why I'm not overly impressed.

And nobody is saying the sky is falling, giving up on Mac, and especially not wanting him fired. We're simply saying, it's extremely unlikely we get to even the middle of the P12 with this kind of recruiting.

fify on talent, seeing as how you're a charter member of the "doom and gloom crowd!"

Credit where credit due: you D&G'ers begged for a return to "CU traditions" and you got it in spades with the total FUBAR disaster that was Water Bottle and Company! Now, as before (LOL) its always someone else's fault and your ilk's gotta nitpick over recruiting when modern recruting is at least a four year process, with good kids committing earlier and earlier. Its not the "criticism" that's deplorable, rather it's the D&G'ers unwarranted pessimism/cyniciism-based criticism that sucks.

 

[Buffnik]

I'm amazed we're out-recruiting anyone. Until I was sure that CU wasn't going to keep losing by 30+ points every week, I wouldn't choose to be a Buff if I had other offers. I'm very surprised that HCMM is going to fill half this class with players wanted by other programs before anything has been shown on the field.

 

[Duff Man]

All "Doom and Gloomers" wanted only a "CU guy" to be hired after Hawkins was fired? Or are you saying Hawkins was wrongly fired by "Doom and Gloomers"? Or that "Doom and Gloomers" were wrong in pushing for Embree to be fired? Or do you read your own posts before hitting reply?

No need for the hyperbole in calling modern recruiting a " four year process". For the best of the best? Sure. But for the vast majority of players, especially on the west coast, it is a two-year process with most guys hitting the height of their recruiting during the Spring Evaluation and camps period in the spring of their junior year and early on in the summer.

As far as talent "development" being the only issue on this team, unless you are blind, even you can see we are one of the smallest, slowest teams in a BCS conference. All the coaching and conditions in the world can't change that if we continue to sign kids with below average speed and small frames (hint: no need to insert your Stanford example because it does not fit).

I look forward to you spending four days trying to cleverly respond to this post. Really, I do.

 

[1989Buff]

Truth be told, we're recruiting above where our recent record says we should. That's good enough for me. It's up to MM to show some progress on the field this Fall so we can continue to recruit above where our record says we should. The hole is so deep, it's going to take years to dig out. Years.
Most folks say you should know how good a coach is by his fourth year, when most of the players are his recruits. By his fourth year here, MM will just be starting to show what he's capable of - if we are lucky.
I'm patient because I have no viable alternative. The only other choice is to give up on the Buffs, and I'm not going to do that.

I couldn't even make it to the end of the thread after I saw the post above (so, sorry if I repeat anything)....but what Sackman says is absolutely right. Some people here have unrealistic expectations, and frankly, it looks strange to see what's being written by some people. I wonder about, perhaps, youth impacting their outlook (as I get older, I find I can get away with saying that!:lol. Having lived through a CU turnaround before, it is a process of wins and recruiting slowly helping each other. You get a couple more wins than you formerly did (good coaching?) which leads to a couple of overachiever recruits (and maybe a true stud or two) who then are able to up the win total by another game or two the following year...followed by yet another increase in the number of quality recruits...lather, rinse, repeat (and be prepared for the occasional backwards step too...injuries, flukes, etc. can do that to you).

This is how programs that are burned to the ground get rebuilt. Anyone upset that we haven't landed a four star recruit (or whatever) are living in some dreamland (did you see how few 4 star recruits are being landed by the Pac-12 at all?). There's nothing wrong with anything the new coach has done thus far (including recruiting). I think people's expectations are, frankly, inexplicable. In fact (and again, may have missed it) can someone who is upset with how things are going post what they expected as a minimum good outcome for this year's recruiting? I would love to see what you thought was reasonable to expect.

I'm not trying to be rah rah about this...I just can't understand where this level of dissatisfaction and these expectations are coming from. It's like we don't realize exactly how low we've fallen (or we won't admit it). And anyone who wants to blame facilities needs to realize that CU has ALWAYS dealt with inferior facilities related to our main competition. Any success we have had over the past 100+ years has been with that reality in place. Coaching is the great factor that can turn this dynamic around. I am confident we got the absolute best coach we had a chance to get in terms of turning this ship around.

 

[1989Buff]

I should also add the obvious point that even when comparing this recruiting class to Embree's we need to realize Embree wasn't stuck/hamstrung trying to recruit kids to play for a school that had just experienced it's worst season in school history. Coach MMac IS.

 

[Idot Buff]

Most of us realized that we were hosed when Danny doosh face was retained for his last year. Would be interesting to go back to that Thanksgiving weekend and read the posts from this site. We are years away from getting back to respectability. Add on the joke of the Embree debacle, and now we are really hosed.

At this point, all we can do is be patient and pray that the new coach can save us. There is nothing else we can do......

 

[boydbuff]

I'm amazed we're out-recruiting anyone. Until I was sure that CU wasn't going to keep losing by 30+ points every week, I wouldn't choose to be a Buff if I had other offers. I'm very surprised that HCMM is going to fill half this class with players wanted by other programs before anything has been shown on the field.

Nik, to not be openly critical of a handful of mostly 3* players who have offers at other D1 and BCS schools, that HCMM and crew are pulling in makes you a bigger sunshine pumper, Kool-Aid drinker than I am

 

[1989Buff]

Most of us realized that we were hosed when Danny doosh face was retained for his last year. Would be interesting to go back to that Thanksgiving weekend and read the posts from this site. We are years away from getting back to respectability. Add on the joke of the Embree debacle, and now we are really hosed.

At this point, all we can do is be patient and pray that the new coach can save us. There is nothing else we can do......

Absolutely spot on. We might have been in a different world if we could have avoided the extra Hawk year...and the Jon E. era was unfortunate (but, in hindsight, understandable).

I question myself about a few things too. I like Gary Barnett. But after 70-3 I was saying "He has to go". Now I wonder about the wisdom of that. I was still accustomed to CU standards of the late 1980s/Early 1990s. Having seen what came afterward, it's easy to see that we probably were doing pretty good with Gary (who was ALWAYS a good coach...he just didn't recruit all that well, and tended to drive away his best recruits by not babying them...in an era where "old school toughness" wasn't playing as well as it used to...unless you were Nick Saban and could get away with it. Few can.).

So, I take your hypothetical DallasBuff and go even farther back. What if we had stayed with Gary? Better or worse off today? It's hard to say "worse" I think (although we might still be a mostly .500 or a little better team. But that doesn't look so bad from where we sit at the moment...).

 

[Idot Buff]

Absolutely spot on. We might have been in a different world if we could have avoided the extra Hawk year...and the Jon E. era was unfortunate (but, in hindsight, understandable).

I question myself about a few things too. I like Gary Barnett. But after 70-3 I was saying "He has to go". Now I wonder about the wisdom of that. I was still accustomed to CU standards of the late 1980s/Early 1990s. Having seen what came afterward, it's easy to see that we probably were doing pretty good with Gary (who was ALWAYS a good coach...he just didn't recruit all that well, and tended to drive away his best recruits by not babying them...in an era where "old school toughness" wasn't playing as well as it used to...unless you were Nick Saban and could get away with it. Few can.).

So, I take your hypothetical DallasBuff and go even farther back. What if we had stayed with Gary? Better or worse off today? It's hard to say "worse" I think (although we might still be a mostly .500 or a little better team. But that doesn't look so bad from where we sit at the moment...).

I was on the side of getting rid of Barnett at the time. Of course, I was down here in hell listening to the Horn fans making fun of how horrible we were in the B12 championship game.

Had Danny worked out, or had we hired someone else who was worth a ****, then the Gary termination decision likely would now be looked on as the right move....

 

[Quattro]

I was on the side of getting rid of Barnett at the time. Of course, I was down here in hell listening to the Horn fans making fun of how horrible we were in the B12 championship game.

Had Danny worked out, or had we hired someone else who was worth a ****, then the Gary termination decision likely would now be looked on as the right move....

It was the right thing to do any way you slice it, Barnett had to go.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I have to shake my head when people make comments like: "well did you really expect us to be landing 4* recruits after the season we just had?", as if that is the only alternative to the level of recruits we ARE landing. The gap between our class and a class of 4* recruits is enormous.

 

[Buffnik]

It was the right thing to do any way you slice it, Barnett had to go.

Barnett should have been let go a couple years earlier than he was. Proactive steps at that stage would have likely avoided a lot of the media fallout that happened which would have made it unnecessary to appease certain parties with draconian self-imposed recruiting restrictions. Honestly, no one except CU fans could understand why he survived beyond 2003 when the depositions were released on the heels of a 5-7 season.

Water under the bridge, though.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

:gobuffs:

 

[MtnBuff]

Barnett should have been let go a couple years earlier than he was. Proactive steps at that stage would have likely avoided a lot of the media fallout that happened which would have made it unnecessary to appease certain parties with draconian self-imposed recruiting restrictions. Honestly, no one except CU fans could understand why he survived beyond 2003 when the depositions were released on the heels of a 5-7 season.

Water under the bridge, though.

You are absolutely correct in this. Barnett had to either be replaced at the outset of the media issues or the administration had to do the right thing and truly support and stand behind him. Instead they choose to take the spineless way out and let him twist in the wind for two years while the program decayed in front of them.

From a moral standpoint they should have stood with him and the players and exposed Keenan and her bunch for the parasitic witch hunt they perpetrated for their own gain. As you point out with the record though the program was already starting to decline even had the "scandal" never happened. Gary was a good, solid coach but he wasn't recruiting at a level to replace the players graduating with players good enough to compete for conference championships. He also wasn't a dynamic enough coach to overcome a talent deficit.

 

[BuffLuke80]

And I did not start the thread acting like the counter point of view have no right to express. I hope he does know what he is doing and he does get it turned around. I just do not see it happening in 2 to 3 years, that is my point.

I'm not saying I don't agree with alot of things Buff fans hate, I do, trust me. I think the administration there is utterly clueless or doesn't give a rats ass. To your point, strap it up, it's gonna be a long one. Hopefully we'll be standing at the end.