Are Bowl Games worth it?

[ahoelsken]

But a bowl in Denver MUST be sponsored by Native Roots.

 

[Dark Bohner]

This. And revenue. And exposure.

Revenue is not really a positive in the vast majority of bowl games. The current Bowl revenue system typically costs the attending schools hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars after travel costs and required ticket sales have been accounted for.

I'd like to see NCAA schools dictate a new revenue model to the Bowls since their existence is entirely dependent on the schools.

 

[BuffUp]

I do like the idea of the Casa Bonita Bowl in the parking lot.

 

[Not Sure]

This.

Fify

Most teams lose money in bowl games and playing a random bowl game at noon on a Thursday doesn’t move the needle in terms of exposure.

But the extra practices are beneficial.

 

[Bufffan68]

Revenue is not really a positive in the vast majority of bowl games. The current Bowl revenue system typically costs the attending schools hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars after travel costs and required ticket sales have been accounted for.

I'd like to see NCAA schools dictate a new revenue model to the Bowls since their existence is entirely dependent on the schools.

Interesting. Someone is making money on these bowls. An NCAA requirement that teams at least break even would naturally cause some attrition.

 

[Buffnik]

It seems weird that conferences would want to participate in a bowl game that causes the team to lose money.

One area where Pac-12 distributions lag is with its bowl tie-ins. That has been improved, but needs more work. I think the big opportunity here is to grow the Las Vegas Bowl when the new stadium is built. An SEC opponent instead of a MWC would be the target, imo.

 

[Not Sure]

I think the big opportunity here is to grow the Las Vegas Bowl when the new stadium is built. An SEC opponent instead of a MWC would be the target, imo.

Love this idea. Isn’t the new stadium just a block off of the Strip? Mid December is a slow season in Vegas anyway, so this would be a great way to get some folks from SEC country into town. Adding a SEC (ACC would work, too) opponent would instantly make the game more attractive and bring in more fans.

 

[Buffnik]

Bowl pay outs for 2017-18:

ACC: $54M base ($87.5M total) / 14 = $6.25M avg per member
B1G: $54M base ($89.5M total) / 14 = $6.39M avg per member
B12: $54M base ($60M total) / 10 = $6.0M avg per member
P12: $54M base ($62M total) / 12 = $5.17 avg per member
SEC: $54M base ($70M total) / 14 = $5.0 avg per member

Bowl game payouts (other than "New Year's Six"):
$8.5M Citrus Bowl - SEC vs B1G (unless B1G makes NY6 Orange, then ACC replaces B1G in Citrus)
$7.8M Alamo Bowl - Pac-12 vs Big 12
$6.3M Outback Bowl - B1G vs SEC
$6.2M Texas Bowl - Big 12 vs SEC
$5.9M Holiday Bowl - Pac-12 vs B1G
$5.8M Camping World Bowl - Big 12 vs ACC
$5.8M Music City Bowl - SEC vs ACC or B1G (Gator & Music City Bowls alternate priority on getting 1st pick of SEC opponent)
$4.8M Liberty Bowl - Big 12 vs SEC
$4.6M Belk Bowl - ACC vs SEC
$4.2M Pinstripe Bowl - ACC vs B1G
$3.6 Foster Farms Bowl - Pac-12 vs B1G
$3.4 Sun Bowl - Pac-12 vs ACC
$3.1M Gator Bowl - SEC vs ACC or B1G (Gator & Music City Bowls alternate priority on getting 1st pick of SEC opponent)
$2.8M Las Vegas Bowl - Pac-12 vs MWC
$2.1M Military Bowl - ACC vs American
$2.1M Birmingham Bowl - SEC vs American (ACC if either can't fill its slot)
$1.8M Quick Lane Bowl - ACC vs B1G
$1.8M Cactus Bowl - Pac-12 vs Big 12 (MWC bid of either can't fill its slot)
$1.7M Heart of Dallas Bowl - Big 12 vs C-USA
$1.6M Armed Forces Bowl - Army vs C-USA
$1.5M Dollar General Bowl - MAC vs Sun Belt
$1.5M Independence Bowl - ACC vs SEC
$1.2M Hawaii Bowl - MWC vs American
$1.1M Idaho Potato Bowl - MAC vs MWC
$1.1M New Mexico Bowl - MWC vs C-USA
$1.0M Gasparilla Bowl - American vs C-USA (ACC if either can't fill its slot)
$0.9M New Orleans Bowl - C-USA vs Sun Belt
$0.9M Boca Raton Bowl - C-USA vs American
$0.8M Cure Bowl - Sun Belt vs American
$0.3M Arizona Bowl - MWC vs Sun Belt
$0.3M Camelia Bowl - Sun Belt vs MAC
$0.2M Bahamas Bowl - MAC vs C-USA
$0.2M Frisco Bowl - American vs At-Large (MAC if American can't fill its slot)
*Note: Notre Dame is eligible for all ACC contracted bowls

For the Pac-12, the biggest opportunities are to enhance the Las Vegas Bowl by bringing in a Power-5 opponent instead of MWC.

 

[Deleted member 807]

There are no bowl tie-ins between the P12 and SEC.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Interesting. Someone is making money on these bowls. An NCAA requirement that teams at least break even would naturally cause some attrition.

The Bowls are making the profits. They get a mandatory cut of revenue from the ticket sales, concessions, etc. and the schools take on the lion's share of financial risk.

 

[Bufffan68]

The Bowls are making the profits. They get a mandatory cut of revenue from the ticket sales, concessions, etc. and the schools take on the lion's share of financial risk.

Conferences need to step in and put an end to this. Schools shouldn’t be subsidizing private corporations.

 

[MtnBuff]

Conferences need to step in and put an end to this. Schools shouldn’t be subsidizing private corporations.

They aren't subsidizing private corporations, they are generating revenues for non-profit organizations that have charitable tie-ins with their communities. That is a requirement to sponsor a bowl.

The conferences are not forced to tie-in with a bowl. If the deal for them was bad they don't have to accept it, there have been bowls that have gone out of business because they didn't make enough money to stay in business.

 

[Bufffan68]

They aren't subsidizing private corporations, they are generating revenues for non-profit organizations that have charitable tie-ins with their communities. That is a requirement to sponsor a bowl.

The conferences are not forced to tie-in with a bowl. If the deal for them was bad they don't have to accept it, there have been bowls that have gone out of business because they didn't make enough money to stay in business.

Thanks for the clarification. It should still be neutral to colleges...non-profits themselves...whether public or private.

 

[MtnBuff]

Thanks for the clarification. It should still be neutral to colleges...non-profits themselves...whether public or private.

We would hope so but sometimes it can't be. For many of the schools the benefits of going to a bowl, even if the books say they lose money, justify the expense.

As I mentioned earlier the publicity gained and the opportunity to build relationship with the donors has value that doesn't go into the game balance sheet. If a school goes $100,000 into the hole on a bowl game they gain much more from that then they would spending that $100,000 on traditional promotional activities.

If the value isn't there the school always has the option of turning down the game.

 

[Bufffan68]

We would hope so but sometimes it can't be. For many of the schools the benefits of going to a bowl, even if the books say they lose money, justify the expense.

As I mentioned earlier the publicity gained and the opportunity to build relationship with the donors has value that doesn't go into the game balance sheet. If a school goes $100,000 into the hole on a bowl game they gain much more from that then they would spending that $100,000 on traditional promotional activities.

If the value isn't there the school always has the option of turning down the game.

Makes sense. Can schools turn down a bowl game if it’s a conference tie-in? We never would but in theory could we have turmed down the Alamo Bowl?

 

[Deleted member 807]

Thanks for the clarification. It should still be neutral to colleges...non-profits themselves...whether public or private.

I recall a case being made by some team that lost something like $350K from attending a bowl game.

The loss was justified by fan outreach. It gives the university an opportunity to interact with boosters and donors in a way that enables fundraising, student recruiting, and university marketing that otherwise wouldn’t happen if they stayed home.

 

[MtnBuff]

Makes sense. Can schools turn down a bowl game if it’s a conference tie-in? We never would but in theory could we have turmed down the Alamo Bowl?

I think turning down a game with a conference tie-in depends on their membership agreement with the conference and the contract the conference has with the bowl. The last time I know of a team turning down a bowl was Louisiana Tech who turned down the Independence Bowl thinking they would get a better offer, they didn't.

Further back and I don't remember specifically which schools but teams have turned down bowls when they were in the middle of cheating scandals and had fired coaches and ineligible players. In 2016 Texas was under consideration to take one of the bowl slots at 5-7 due to not enough eligible teams and told the NCAA not to include them.

Short of being in a huge scandal I can't see a team turning down a bowl like the Alamo but a team from a smaller conference could turn down a game that doesn't make financial sense or a team from a major conference could turn down a bowl that they see as below them that doesn't enhance their program.

 

[skibum]

Someone turned down the Bahamas bowl in the last 5-7 years. A couple of schools have come close to turning down bowl bids until a donor stepped up to fund the ticket commitment.

Much of the cost for the schools isn't the team travel but the required ticket purchase. The schools have to sell XX,000 tickets, and if their fans are uninterested, they're screwed.

I read an article a couple years ago about some lower level schools seriously thinking about not going until some donors bought the ticket allotment and donated the tickets back to the school to distribute to the students.