Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
i also think Arkansas had it's turn being a vassal program to the Texas schools in the SWC and got the F out. i don't see a return being that appealing to them compared to the SEC.
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Big 1(1)0 to expand?
- Thread starter OKCBuff
- Start date
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
that's hilarious.
The existing in-state rival plus geographic location make this almost logical. Prolly won't happen tho.
Yes it would. Personally, I think the big 10 take Pitt or Rutgers.
If Mizzou did go then its tough sleding for the north because there is no equal peer replacement in terms of caliber. I also don't think they like the footprint of the conference to get bigger but a Texas school would be one of the best choices.
If you look at the map
They could put TT in the north or OSU and admit TCU. I think letting in Utah or BYU adds too much geography. I do kinda see Memphis if they had better football. They'd certainly boost basketball and they are not as far as SLC from a geography standpoint. Plus thats the edge of SEC country
GoBuffs08
Well-Known Member
If this happens, and ND does not want to join a conference, I think Mizzou would be the school to get the invite.
And now for the PAC 10 talk. IF Mizzou leaves, I think CU should look at trying to move to the PAC 10.
I don't think any of this will happen in the next 5-7 years.
And now for the PAC 10 talk. IF Mizzou leaves, I think CU should look at trying to move to the PAC 10.
I don't think any of this will happen in the next 5-7 years.
Their first choice is ND and their 2nd choice is Mizzou. The StL and KC markets would be a big get for the Big10. No way they invite ISU. Mizzou is already starting to form a rivalry with Illinois.
This is all about $$$ and trying to compete with the SEC. With the SECs TV contract the other big conferences are going to need to compete with the SEC. 7M a year for every school in the SEC based on that contract. The haves vs the have nots. The Big 10 cannot be left behind.
This is all about $$$ and trying to compete with the SEC. With the SECs TV contract the other big conferences are going to need to compete with the SEC. 7M a year for every school in the SEC based on that contract. The haves vs the have nots. The Big 10 cannot be left behind.
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
If Mizzou waited out the two years without getting any conference money then they'd be hurting -- it'll be damn tough to leave this conference with how the bylaws are.
And if they left I think the conference would be in trouble. There's ZERO solid choices in terms of a large, state school in or near the conference footprint. There's only one close that would fit and that's a stretch: New Mexico. You could throw them in the North and they would have a geographical tie with CU, so that could work. It'd be good for basketball and bad for football, but really, this conference was built with the understanding that Mizzou basketball was great and its football was sub-par, so it might not be a bad move. Plus, Albuquerque will only continue to grow so it might be a "makes little sense now, but in 30 years will be seen as a great move" type of thing.
People bringing up Arkansas need to stop. They get a bazillion bucks from the SEC. Sure, they're closer to half of the Big 12 schools before their closest SEC rival (Ole Miss, almost 500 miles away), but that money changes a lot. Culturally, they're a Confederate state and their people feel more in common with SEC states as opposed to the Great Plains Mid-South states. Although, Arky would have immediate rivalries with their old SWC schools, OU, OSU and Missouri (they have a quasi-dormant border war as it is). But alas, no chance.
For the record, I'm against the Big 12 booting ANY former Big Eight school. Despite what the Texans want to think, the heartbeat of this conference is inside the Big Eight schools. They're the ones that needed a new home, not us. That said, schools such as ISU and BU serve their purpose in other sports and every conference has little weak schools so that's just the way it is.
If, by some chance, the conference was needing another school, I'd go outside the box and go after Air Force: They'd give the league a second team in Colorado, would probably love to be in a BCS conference and they typically field solid football teams. I don't care for some of the other options out there. (TCU? Probably the most logical choice but they wouldn't be as good as they are if they were in the original Big 12; BTW Ann Richards got them out in favor of BU.) BYU would be a dream because they are the Notre Dame of poser Christian sect schools and are competitive in everything, it seems. But that would bankrupt school's travel budgets in small sports, I'd think. Just too far from the current geography.
My random Top replacement candidates:
1. Air Force (Service Academy, great geography, good fit to slide into North)
2. TCU (Old-money football support - finally wants to win again, in middle of conference)
3. New Mexico (Has quasi-rivalry with Tech, geographic tie with Colorado, would go into North because OSU and OU would fit a move)
4. Memphis (Basically in the conference region, would stick out somewhat)
5. Houston (Texas schools would probably fit this; they're seen as a little bro commuter school)
6. Colorado State (Yeah, I know, but we're scraping the bottom of the barrel geographically)
7. Wyoming (See above)
8. Louisiana Tech (Only because it's a natural fit geographically)
9. Another Texas school (though I don't know who after the names above)
Honestly, if they would re-add football, Wichita State would be a perfect choice, but they dropped the sport in 1987 (thanks Lew Perkins!). They would fit into the North perfectly and typically have great baseball teams and competitive hoops squads. But I doubt that they do that. Down the line (I'm talking 25 years), maybe Missouri State or Arkansas State would be ready for the jump, but I doubt it.
The above just shows you how empty this part of the country is population-wise. Look at the other major conferences. They ALL have a decent subordinate conference with a host of schools: Big Ten (MAC), SEC and ACC overlap, Big East overlaps with them all it seems, Pac-10 has the MWC and WAC (though other than BSU the WAC has no one attractive to poach; maybe Nevada). But the Big 12 does not. OK, so Conference USA is on the southern side, but Tulsa is too small, Tulane is a joke and the other schools just don't fit. The point is: The Big 12 has little options if it were poached and, if it was, I could see the conference slowly break off over a decade period because of the sudden instability. Just about every school would have other options, except the Kansas schools, which are on an island when it comes to other conferences. (Example: CU would fit in the Pac-10; NU/Mizzou/ISU would fit in the Big 10; OSU, OU, UT and A&M would fit in the SEC (barely). I bet BU, Tech, KU and KSU would go to C-USA.
And oh, I think a move to 4-5 16-team conferences could be a reality within 25 years. Just a feeling.
And if they left I think the conference would be in trouble. There's ZERO solid choices in terms of a large, state school in or near the conference footprint. There's only one close that would fit and that's a stretch: New Mexico. You could throw them in the North and they would have a geographical tie with CU, so that could work. It'd be good for basketball and bad for football, but really, this conference was built with the understanding that Mizzou basketball was great and its football was sub-par, so it might not be a bad move. Plus, Albuquerque will only continue to grow so it might be a "makes little sense now, but in 30 years will be seen as a great move" type of thing.
People bringing up Arkansas need to stop. They get a bazillion bucks from the SEC. Sure, they're closer to half of the Big 12 schools before their closest SEC rival (Ole Miss, almost 500 miles away), but that money changes a lot. Culturally, they're a Confederate state and their people feel more in common with SEC states as opposed to the Great Plains Mid-South states. Although, Arky would have immediate rivalries with their old SWC schools, OU, OSU and Missouri (they have a quasi-dormant border war as it is). But alas, no chance.
For the record, I'm against the Big 12 booting ANY former Big Eight school. Despite what the Texans want to think, the heartbeat of this conference is inside the Big Eight schools. They're the ones that needed a new home, not us. That said, schools such as ISU and BU serve their purpose in other sports and every conference has little weak schools so that's just the way it is.
If, by some chance, the conference was needing another school, I'd go outside the box and go after Air Force: They'd give the league a second team in Colorado, would probably love to be in a BCS conference and they typically field solid football teams. I don't care for some of the other options out there. (TCU? Probably the most logical choice but they wouldn't be as good as they are if they were in the original Big 12; BTW Ann Richards got them out in favor of BU.) BYU would be a dream because they are the Notre Dame of poser Christian sect schools and are competitive in everything, it seems. But that would bankrupt school's travel budgets in small sports, I'd think. Just too far from the current geography.
My random Top replacement candidates:
1. Air Force (Service Academy, great geography, good fit to slide into North)
2. TCU (Old-money football support - finally wants to win again, in middle of conference)
3. New Mexico (Has quasi-rivalry with Tech, geographic tie with Colorado, would go into North because OSU and OU would fit a move)
4. Memphis (Basically in the conference region, would stick out somewhat)
5. Houston (Texas schools would probably fit this; they're seen as a little bro commuter school)
6. Colorado State (Yeah, I know, but we're scraping the bottom of the barrel geographically)
7. Wyoming (See above)
8. Louisiana Tech (Only because it's a natural fit geographically)
9. Another Texas school (though I don't know who after the names above)
Honestly, if they would re-add football, Wichita State would be a perfect choice, but they dropped the sport in 1987 (thanks Lew Perkins!). They would fit into the North perfectly and typically have great baseball teams and competitive hoops squads. But I doubt that they do that. Down the line (I'm talking 25 years), maybe Missouri State or Arkansas State would be ready for the jump, but I doubt it.
The above just shows you how empty this part of the country is population-wise. Look at the other major conferences. They ALL have a decent subordinate conference with a host of schools: Big Ten (MAC), SEC and ACC overlap, Big East overlaps with them all it seems, Pac-10 has the MWC and WAC (though other than BSU the WAC has no one attractive to poach; maybe Nevada). But the Big 12 does not. OK, so Conference USA is on the southern side, but Tulsa is too small, Tulane is a joke and the other schools just don't fit. The point is: The Big 12 has little options if it were poached and, if it was, I could see the conference slowly break off over a decade period because of the sudden instability. Just about every school would have other options, except the Kansas schools, which are on an island when it comes to other conferences. (Example: CU would fit in the Pac-10; NU/Mizzou/ISU would fit in the Big 10; OSU, OU, UT and A&M would fit in the SEC (barely). I bet BU, Tech, KU and KSU would go to C-USA.
And oh, I think a move to 4-5 16-team conferences could be a reality within 25 years. Just a feeling.
No way the Big 12 would have any interest in UNM. If Mizzou were to leave, Arky might be the first choice but they'd be crazy to leave the SEC, so that wouldn't happen. TCU would be the most logical replacement.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
With the way the winds of change are blowing, would this be a completely far-fetched chain of events:
First Domino) Big Ten invites Nebraska to join. Due to the dominance of the Texas schools in the Big 12 (politically and athletically), the complete irrelevance of their traditional rivalry with OU, and a MUCH bigger revenue distribution; how could Nebraska pass that up.
Second Domino) The Pac Ten decides to also expand to 12 teams. They invite Utah and Colorado. Now that Nebraska is out of the Big 12, what is really holding us back from staying? We aren't even focused on recruiting Texas anyway, we don't travel well to the Big 12 games and are considered a harder school to qualify for academically than most anyway.
The Big 12 now only has 10 members. They would make a desperate attempt to lure LSU/Arkansas and maybe they would even listen, but doubtful they would leave the lucrative SEC for what would be considered a "troubled" conference. None of the Big Ten schools (Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, etc) would consider leaving.
They would be forced to have to invite some combination of TCU, SMU, Houston, New Mexico, or UTEP; or remain a 10 team conference.
I know that sounds crazy, but I believe that the budget crisis in California (and other states) will force the Pac Ten to expand in order to increase revenues via a TV deal and CCG. The Big Ten is always testing the waters and the biggest fish (outside of Notre Dame) within their region is Nebraska.
First Domino) Big Ten invites Nebraska to join. Due to the dominance of the Texas schools in the Big 12 (politically and athletically), the complete irrelevance of their traditional rivalry with OU, and a MUCH bigger revenue distribution; how could Nebraska pass that up.
Second Domino) The Pac Ten decides to also expand to 12 teams. They invite Utah and Colorado. Now that Nebraska is out of the Big 12, what is really holding us back from staying? We aren't even focused on recruiting Texas anyway, we don't travel well to the Big 12 games and are considered a harder school to qualify for academically than most anyway.
The Big 12 now only has 10 members. They would make a desperate attempt to lure LSU/Arkansas and maybe they would even listen, but doubtful they would leave the lucrative SEC for what would be considered a "troubled" conference. None of the Big Ten schools (Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, etc) would consider leaving.
They would be forced to have to invite some combination of TCU, SMU, Houston, New Mexico, or UTEP; or remain a 10 team conference.
I know that sounds crazy, but I believe that the budget crisis in California (and other states) will force the Pac Ten to expand in order to increase revenues via a TV deal and CCG. The Big Ten is always testing the waters and the biggest fish (outside of Notre Dame) within their region is Nebraska.
GoBuffs08
Well-Known Member
Corn would be around the 10th or 11th school that the Big 10 would look at. Well behind Pitt, Rutgers, Mizzou, and many others.
Honestly, what does the Corn bring to the party? Out of the Big 12 schools, Mizzou has a better market with St. Louis & Kansas City for TV, and a rivalry with Illinois.
Honestly, what does the Corn bring to the party? Out of the Big 12 schools, Mizzou has a better market with St. Louis & Kansas City for TV, and a rivalry with Illinois.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
I think they would bring a more marketable product to the table for their TV network. The Nebraska market doesn't offer very much in TV sets, true. But the national following of the team would make the conference as a whole more attractive.
A Nebraska-Iowa rivalry would be a very marketable game.
Personally, I would think that Rutgers would be the best market for them to expand into, but I was researching that the Big Ten already does draw high ratings in the NYC market, so maybe the effect would be minimal.
Mizzou certainly has a better hoops team and access to two big TV markets, but the Big Ten didn't show any interest in them in 90's when they took Penn State. Missouri would most likely be unwilling to lose the "Border War" matchup as well.
Virginia or Maryland are truly the best overall fits for the Big Ten, but they are both founding members of the ACC and that conference pulls in more $ than the Big 12 does due to their TV contracts for basketball.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
U guys are nuts.. CU is never going to leave the Big 12 for the Pac 10.. Not going to happen.. And Nebraska isn't going to go to the Big 10..
And just because our staff has no clue how to recruit doesn't mean we should give that up for the rest of time.. When the next coach comes in he will recruit Texas..
And just because our staff has no clue how to recruit doesn't mean we should give that up for the rest of time.. When the next coach comes in he will recruit Texas..
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
No way NU goes to the Televen; they'll expand eastward to shore up the big TV markets. Rutgers seems more and more like the best choice. I still like Pitt because of where they are and ties to Ohio and Penn.
I will say, if NU bolted and CU left, the Big 12 would probably continue to splinter and I could see the SEC take UT and A&M just to complete their little football death star they have going on. Losing the two big-time programs in the North would decimate the conference.
I will say, if NU bolted and CU left, the Big 12 would probably continue to splinter and I could see the SEC take UT and A&M just to complete their little football death star they have going on. Losing the two big-time programs in the North would decimate the conference.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
I disagree, it seems more and more apparent that the Big 12 is not working in the best interests of Nebraska or CU. The other Big Eight schools in the North have all had similar complaints.
The Texas and Oklahoma schools dictate too much power and they risk repeating the same failure of the SWC unless the Big 12 can negotiate a much more lucrative and evenly distributed TV contract.
BIGREDIOWAN
Well-Known Member
Could you imagine the talent in that conference!? That's scary to think about............:wow:
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
Oh I know. Back when the SWC was falling apart and the SEC was looking to expand, they went after UT and A&M first, but the Texas schools rebuffed and the SEC got Arky and South Carolina instead. That would have been an insane SEC West - Texas, A&M, LSU? lol
Here's an update: Sounds like the conference will officially announce its intention to expand very soon - http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-15-big-ten-foot-dec15,0,2684882.story?page=1
At this point, I think it's either Pitt or Rutgers.
They have Penn St. If they go with a Big East team it's Rutgers, imo.
Sportsfan101
Well-Known Member
From mgoblog.com:
Big Ten Expansion: Grid Of Judgment
The Fringe
Schools that have been brought up at one time or another but are not worth a fuller discussion for various reasons.
Schools that would say no
Texas. Blame those Texas newspaper articles describing UT's flirtation with the Big Ten after the SWC exploded, but Texas comes up whenever this topic does. Despite the travel involved the Big Ten would do that in a heartbeat; Texas is a fantastic school that opens up copious television markets and is a national power in both football and basketball.
Texas would not, though. They are the master and commander of an entire conference with weak revenue sharing relative to the Big Ten. They have longstanding rivalries with virtually everyone in the Big 12 South. And their nationally competitive baseball program would be badly hurt by joining what's basically a mid-major conference.
Nebraska. Massive football tradition and geographically somewhat feasible but there's no way the Cornhuskers would give up a 100 years of rivalries for the Big Ten. Have no links to anyone in the conference.
Notre Dame. If the Big Ten is doing this when Notre Dame's NBC contract has six years to run, the Irish are not in the mix.
Schools that don't offer enough
Iowa State. Why on earth would anyone want Iowa State in their conference? No TV market and no success in either major sport. If Iowa doesn't want them, and I'm sure they don't, why would anyone else?
West Virginia. Tier III institution would probably get rejected by the presidents. Good programs in football and basketball but brings zero recruiting base and zero television market. If the only considerations were on-field performance they'd be the obvious #1 choice but all their peripherals are poor.
Cincinnati. Legitimate traditional basketball power (two national titles in the 60s to go with the Huggins era) and nouveau riche football school, but probably destined for a major drop with Brian Kelly out the door. Academically, a non-starter: it's a tier III commuter school.
Louisville. Geographically and athletically plausible but a tier III institution.
Prime Candidates
Rutgers. Hypothetically brings New Jersey and New York markets into play, except few really care about Rutgers when they're not good and they've rarely been good. Very rarely. Basketball program a nonentity; football was a nationwide punchline until the arrival of Greg Schiano, at which point they've had one standout year and a bunch of middling ones that end in nondescript bowl games.
Missouri. Geographically adjacent and has longstanding, if on-and-off, rivalry with Illinois. Good, not great, state school that would be the worst-ranked school in the league but not by much, especially after a post-CIC bump. Brings a new, large TV market into play. Also [video=youtube;Y7UDOIvatgw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7UDOIvatgw[/video] with it.
Negatives: neither football or basketball is the sort of program that brings any wow factor, though the football program is a solid and developing one under Gary Pinkel. And Mizzou has been in the Big 8/12 since its inception. Fevered rivalry with Kansas and the sort of non-rivalry with Nebraska that saw Mizzou on the end of dozens of heinous beatings to the point where if Pinkel hadn't run up the score in the final year of Callahan he would have taken he would have taken heat for it.
Would Mizzou go? I mentioned them on the radio yesterday, at which point someone who grew up in the area called in to cast doubt on the possibility the Tigers would even consider leaving the Big 12. He certainly knows better than I do. On the other hand, some Mizzou folks have started a pro-Big Ten blog and the Rock M Nation thread discussing BHGP's discussion of a potential move is split down the middle. The local paper's Mizzou beatwriter, however, is adamant:
Pitt. Obvious natural rivalry with Penn State that makes the Nittany Lions less of an odd duck in the league both geographically and culturally. Brings another TV market, though Pittsburgh is an area that already gets the BTN. Rich tradition in football and has been intermittently decent over the last decade; basketball program has recently built itself into a national power but has little in the way of history.
Scholastically Pitt would be an average Big Ten team, which is very strong relative to other serious candidates. And there's no question whether they would jump or not: Pitt would kill to get in the Big Ten. They'd get to play Penn State, they'd get a ton more football revenue, the basketball would be fine, and they could play WVU out of conference.
Negatives: they play in a sterile NFL stadium that's usually half-empty, though a Big Ten fan with road-trip inclinations could view that as a positive. And adding Mizzou or Syracuse or whatever puts another state in the BTN footprint; Pittsburgh doesn't. And you could see this hurting Big Ten schools' Pittsburgh-area recruiting. Now players in the area can pick between the Big Ten or staying close to home; in the future they can have both.
Syracuse. Geographically somewhat awkward; football program has totally imploded since Paul Pasqualoni fell off. On the other hand, an excellent school (almost exactly on par with Pitt) with a powerhouse basketball program. Their location is a blessing and a curse: it's far away but also makes the Big Ten considerably more important in New York (state, not City).
Syracuse might like it in the Big East enough to shoot down an overture, though. They're decidedly more eastern than a lot of Big East schools.
Chart?
Grid! Grid of judgment!
A legend: teams are graded on a 3 point scale, where 0 is uncatchable a factor so poor it disqualifies the program in question, is is an active detriment, 2 is "meh", and 3 is a positive. The "average" column does not include "willingness," since it's an attempt to judge the attractiveness of the teams only.
"Other sports" rankings derived from Director's Cup standings.
SchoolWillingnessAcademicsFootballBasketballOther SportsLocationMedia MarketFootprint ExpansionAvg.Texas033331332.7Nebraska013121111.4Notre Dame033233332.9Maryland121331222.0Iowa State310013000.7West Virginia303323011.7Cincinnati302313111.6Louisville301323232.0Rutgers321111331.7Syracuse231311221.9Pitt332313222.3Missouri112133332.3Your winners amongst the even distantly feasible: Pitt and Missouri, and Missouri is only distantly feasible. Both are clearly poor options relative to Notre Dame, but that ain't happening. Your projected 12th Big Ten school: Pitt.
Big Ten Expansion: Grid Of Judgment
The Fringe
Schools that have been brought up at one time or another but are not worth a fuller discussion for various reasons.
Schools that would say no
Texas. Blame those Texas newspaper articles describing UT's flirtation with the Big Ten after the SWC exploded, but Texas comes up whenever this topic does. Despite the travel involved the Big Ten would do that in a heartbeat; Texas is a fantastic school that opens up copious television markets and is a national power in both football and basketball.
Texas would not, though. They are the master and commander of an entire conference with weak revenue sharing relative to the Big Ten. They have longstanding rivalries with virtually everyone in the Big 12 South. And their nationally competitive baseball program would be badly hurt by joining what's basically a mid-major conference.
Nebraska. Massive football tradition and geographically somewhat feasible but there's no way the Cornhuskers would give up a 100 years of rivalries for the Big Ten. Have no links to anyone in the conference.
Notre Dame. If the Big Ten is doing this when Notre Dame's NBC contract has six years to run, the Irish are not in the mix.
Schools that don't offer enough
Iowa State. Why on earth would anyone want Iowa State in their conference? No TV market and no success in either major sport. If Iowa doesn't want them, and I'm sure they don't, why would anyone else?
West Virginia. Tier III institution would probably get rejected by the presidents. Good programs in football and basketball but brings zero recruiting base and zero television market. If the only considerations were on-field performance they'd be the obvious #1 choice but all their peripherals are poor.
Cincinnati. Legitimate traditional basketball power (two national titles in the 60s to go with the Huggins era) and nouveau riche football school, but probably destined for a major drop with Brian Kelly out the door. Academically, a non-starter: it's a tier III commuter school.
Louisville. Geographically and athletically plausible but a tier III institution.
Prime Candidates
Rutgers. Hypothetically brings New Jersey and New York markets into play, except few really care about Rutgers when they're not good and they've rarely been good. Very rarely. Basketball program a nonentity; football was a nationwide punchline until the arrival of Greg Schiano, at which point they've had one standout year and a bunch of middling ones that end in nondescript bowl games.
Missouri. Geographically adjacent and has longstanding, if on-and-off, rivalry with Illinois. Good, not great, state school that would be the worst-ranked school in the league but not by much, especially after a post-CIC bump. Brings a new, large TV market into play. Also [video=youtube;Y7UDOIvatgw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7UDOIvatgw[/video] with it.
Negatives: neither football or basketball is the sort of program that brings any wow factor, though the football program is a solid and developing one under Gary Pinkel. And Mizzou has been in the Big 8/12 since its inception. Fevered rivalry with Kansas and the sort of non-rivalry with Nebraska that saw Mizzou on the end of dozens of heinous beatings to the point where if Pinkel hadn't run up the score in the final year of Callahan he would have taken he would have taken heat for it.
Would Mizzou go? I mentioned them on the radio yesterday, at which point someone who grew up in the area called in to cast doubt on the possibility the Tigers would even consider leaving the Big 12. He certainly knows better than I do. On the other hand, some Mizzou folks have started a pro-Big Ten blog and the Rock M Nation thread discussing BHGP's discussion of a potential move is split down the middle. The local paper's Mizzou beatwriter, however, is adamant:
RT @Kevin_Baum What's your take on mizzou's chances of joining the big 10? ... To quote Dean Wormer, Zero Point Zero
I don't know. I expect that Mizzou would at least flirt with the Big Ten in an effort to get the Big 12's revenue sharing increased.
Pitt. Obvious natural rivalry with Penn State that makes the Nittany Lions less of an odd duck in the league both geographically and culturally. Brings another TV market, though Pittsburgh is an area that already gets the BTN. Rich tradition in football and has been intermittently decent over the last decade; basketball program has recently built itself into a national power but has little in the way of history.Scholastically Pitt would be an average Big Ten team, which is very strong relative to other serious candidates. And there's no question whether they would jump or not: Pitt would kill to get in the Big Ten. They'd get to play Penn State, they'd get a ton more football revenue, the basketball would be fine, and they could play WVU out of conference.
Negatives: they play in a sterile NFL stadium that's usually half-empty, though a Big Ten fan with road-trip inclinations could view that as a positive. And adding Mizzou or Syracuse or whatever puts another state in the BTN footprint; Pittsburgh doesn't. And you could see this hurting Big Ten schools' Pittsburgh-area recruiting. Now players in the area can pick between the Big Ten or staying close to home; in the future they can have both.
Syracuse. Geographically somewhat awkward; football program has totally imploded since Paul Pasqualoni fell off. On the other hand, an excellent school (almost exactly on par with Pitt) with a powerhouse basketball program. Their location is a blessing and a curse: it's far away but also makes the Big Ten considerably more important in New York (state, not City).
Syracuse might like it in the Big East enough to shoot down an overture, though. They're decidedly more eastern than a lot of Big East schools.
Chart?
Grid! Grid of judgment!
A legend: teams are graded on a 3 point scale, where 0 is uncatchable a factor so poor it disqualifies the program in question, is is an active detriment, 2 is "meh", and 3 is a positive. The "average" column does not include "willingness," since it's an attempt to judge the attractiveness of the teams only.
"Other sports" rankings derived from Director's Cup standings.
SchoolWillingnessAcademicsFootballBasketballOther SportsLocationMedia MarketFootprint ExpansionAvg.Texas033331332.7Nebraska013121111.4Notre Dame033233332.9Maryland121331222.0Iowa State310013000.7West Virginia303323011.7Cincinnati302313111.6Louisville301323232.0Rutgers321111331.7Syracuse231311221.9Pitt332313222.3Missouri112133332.3Your winners amongst the even distantly feasible: Pitt and Missouri, and Missouri is only distantly feasible. Both are clearly poor options relative to Notre Dame, but that ain't happening. Your projected 12th Big Ten school: Pitt.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Didn't they basically give up the 100 years of rivalries when they split with Oklahoma. Does 100 year of slaughtering Kansas/Nebraska count?
I think this is being overlooked as if Nebraska is 100% sold on the Big 12. I don't see why the would be. They are marginalized politically with the TX-OK schools, and the Big 12 TV contract is nothing compared to the Big 10's. Nebraska-Iowa would easily be a HUGE rivalry game for those schools. The biggest drawbacks to NU is that their basketball team sucks and the don't add alot of TV sets.
Virginia/Maryland should be added to that set of potential schools. The Big Ten doesn't care about anyone else's traditions and money talks, either one of those schools would listen.
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
If you think Nebraska feels left out in the Big 12, just watch them get made fun of as the small hick school out on the prairie in the Big Tevelen. Michigan and Ohio State rule that conferece; NU stepping in with its football team still rebuilding would give it little sway.
UVA and UM wouldn't leave the ACC because the basketball is much better. Plus, they'd be very out-of-place IMO.
I still think it'll be Pitt, but Mizzou is wasting no time looking like the harlot sluts we all know they are: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/15/mizzou-would-listen-to-big-ten-on-expansion/
That's sad: They're willing to sell out all the Great Big Eight/12 history they have with so many teams in order to be a number for a conference. Fools.
How about ...Notre Dame? Not happening. The school puts a premium on its independence.
Plus there's that fool-me-once, fool-me-twice thing.
"There's some pressure, I would suppose, to maybe go back to Notre Dame and ask again, which I would not be happy with," Paterno said in May. "I think they've had their chance."
Plus there's that fool-me-once, fool-me-twice thing.
"There's some pressure, I would suppose, to maybe go back to Notre Dame and ask again, which I would not be happy with," Paterno said in May. "I think they've had their chance."
Nice job Joe! :thumbsup:
I think Neb would quickly gain some respect when they started routinely beating ohio stank and michican.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
I agree with the blog person, I think Pitt will get the invite when all is said and done with Syracuse as a close second.. They have some issues because its a city school (usually those schools have trouble drawing) but academically and facilities wise its top notch ( I believe Pitt shares their facilities(beside the stadium) with the Steelers). And I'm not sure any of the other candidates (with the exception of Texas of course) would improve TV ratings that much or bring in TV markets that the Big 10 has to have..
I don't get the Rutgers fascination.. Maybe because ESPN hypes them up so much and tries to portray that the campus is in Downtown Manhattan (the campus is in NEW JERSEY)but they have had one 10 winning season in their whole history.. Big 10 isn't going to bring in some joke of a program like that.. I think UCONN has a better shot than Rutgers since they at least have a basketball program.. Plus Rutgers has some academic/athletic fights going on right now which I don't think the Big 10 will particularly like (AD was fired or resigned in the last year)..
I don't get the Rutgers fascination.. Maybe because ESPN hypes them up so much and tries to portray that the campus is in Downtown Manhattan (the campus is in NEW JERSEY)but they have had one 10 winning season in their whole history.. Big 10 isn't going to bring in some joke of a program like that.. I think UCONN has a better shot than Rutgers since they at least have a basketball program.. Plus Rutgers has some academic/athletic fights going on right now which I don't think the Big 10 will particularly like (AD was fired or resigned in the last year)..
You guys are making this too complicated. Gaining market share is an after thought to adding a title game, a compellinng contest to end the year versus an irrelavent game. Title games are like another bowl game and they add $5million to the pot. The Big 10 is falling behind the ACC now, SEC, and Big 12 in terms of that additional revenue. This "extra" game also gets you a bigger contract. You watch; the Pac 10 will do this soon as well.
Personally I'd love it if several conferences had title games because it would make the step to a playoff system even more of a reality.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
The ACC only gets $5 million from the CCG.
The Big 12 gets $11.1 million for theirs.
The SEC gets $14.3 million for theirs.
The Big Ten would be in the upper end of that spectrum with a CCG.
The TV market shares are very important as well, and as you say, they go hand-in-hand. However, the Big Ten is especially geared towards the TV markets as they expand their conference ran network.
Apparently expansion for the Big 11 isn't a given. It was pointed out in a recent SI article that the revenue from a CCG is relatively small compared to television contracts and overall bowl payouts:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/12/15/bigten-expansion/index.html
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Stewart Mandel's article is certainly more sobering for many of the schools and expansionists.
He pointed out the many drawbacks of most of the schools being offered as a candidate.
However, the one line ending to his piece:
Says a lot
He pointed out the many drawbacks of most of the schools being offered as a candidate.
However, the one line ending to his piece:
Says a lot