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Big 12 and SEC champs to play in bowl

Will it be Dallas (Cotton Bowl) or New Orleans (Sugar Bowl)?

Pretty exciting move for both those leagues.

SEC seeing the future and essentially kicking the ACC off the "big boy table". Not a bad strategy for them to ensure that Texas-Oklahoma never go to the Pac-12/Big Ten and keeping the southern football power base within their influence.

Big 12 really making a statement that they are here to stay. If they add Florida State and Clemson (and maybe Louisville/Cincy to get to 14?) then they really kill the ACC as a threat to be one of the last four big conferences standing.

Seems wierd that Mizzou/Texas A&M would switch to the SEC while the Big 12 now is looking at overlapping the SEC's footprint but they can get along enough to make this kind of agreement.
 
I heard an interview with Tony Barnart and he thought the chances of FSU going to the Big 12 were only about 30% but I'd tend to think the chances are higher. The Noles are trying to play SEC level football on an ACC budget and that hasn't been cutting it since their booster donations have gone down in recent years. If the ACC loses a team UConn would be the obvious replacement.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
I heard an interview with Tony Barnart and he thought the chances of FSU going to the Big 12 were only about 30% but I'd tend to think the chances are higher. The Noles are trying to play SEC level football on an ACC budget and that hasn't been cutting it since their booster donations have gone down in recent years. If the ACC loses a team UConn would be the obvious replacement.
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I have to give it to the Big 12(10). Positioning themselves to be the Bowl mate with the SEC, similar to Pac 12/Big 10(12), really solidifies that conference and completely **** blocks the ACC out of the top 4 conferences. I think the Noles and Clemson are going to take a much harder look at the Big 12 now.
 
All of you guys have this right.

The football first teams of the ACC absolutely have to stand up and take notice of this move. I have to believe Miami, FSU, Clemson, VT all must be seriously thinking this weekend about how to get in to the Big 12. I can absolutely picture a scenario where those 4 go to the Big 12 and/or SEC (and force ND's hand) and then the ACC and Big East blend as a crazy basketball powerhouse. This move may singlehandedly create the playoff scenario we have all been waiting for.

Ok, a little hyperbole there - but this news is big time. It may not happen quickly, but this was a massive move on the college football chess board.
 
It very likely also means that UT will NEVER darken the door of the PAC 12 again. This is cause for celebration.
 
sackman said:
It very likely also means that UT will NEVER darken the door of the PAC 12 again. This is cause for celebration.
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Very much agree and could not be happier. Let's see where consolidation goes now. Chips will fall fast once a cople of teams move from the ACC. Those out In the cold will be scrambling to get into one of the Big 4 conferences. So glad we have made our move. So glad!
 
sackman said:
It very likely also means that UT will NEVER darken the door of the PAC 12 again. This is cause for celebration.
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Long term implications get very interesting for all of college football.

We have already seen, with the exception of the ACC contract a couple years ago, that virtually all the TV money is headed to these four conferences anyways. The landscape is going to be very different with the gap between the haves and the have nots growing even wider. Since they have no formal agreement with these four conferences and the Bowl alliance being dead the schools that are left out will have an even harder time trying to force their way in to the money legally.

Once the money distribution settles down the question will be how viable is it for the schools on the outside to try to maintain any semblance of a top level program. With the schools in the top conferences making upward of $30 million each per year and those on the outside lucky to get 10% of that it will be hard for the outside schools to even try to maintain the appearance of competitiveness and financial viability.

At that point do we see an official separation into different divisions. We obviously have the top division schools. Do the others join the FCS schools or do they form a mid-level between the two.

Next question after that is do the major conferences completely sever themselves from the NCAA taking other sports with them. Basketball is the second highest profile sport and there are a number of very high profile BB schools that don't play football, many of these in the Big East. Do these schools get invited in for BB purposes or do they get left out in the cold as well. Subtract the Big 10, Big 12 and to a lesser extent the SEC and PAC and you have to question the viability of the NCAA BB tourney as we know it now.

It may also be interesting to see how schools that are on the fringe or below that don't want to be left out respond to this. We may see some major capital improvement projects such as stadiums and practice facilities that become expensive white elephants built in the near future.
 
So what happens to the ACC/Big East football also-rans in such a situation. Just plain left in the dark? Syracuse, North Carolina, Maryland, etc just have to give up ever having a chance of winning the MNC (yes I know its unlikely anyways). Damn, who would've thought two years ago that Iowa State, Baylor, and the Kansas schools would be in a better situation than those Big East/ACC guys.
 
MtnBuff said:
Long term implications get very interesting for all of college football.

We have already seen, with the exception of the ACC contract a couple years ago, that virtually all the TV money is headed to these four conferences anyways. The landscape is going to be very different with the gap between the haves and the have nots growing even wider. Since they have no formal agreement with these four conferences and the Bowl alliance being dead the schools that are left out will have an even harder time trying to force their way in to the money legally.

Once the money distribution settles down the question will be how viable is it for the schools on the outside to try to maintain any semblance of a top level program. With the schools in the top conferences making upward of $30 million each per year and those on the outside lucky to get 10% of that it will be hard for the outside schools to even try to maintain the appearance of competitiveness and financial viability.

At that point do we see an official separation into different divisions. We obviously have the top division schools. Do the others join the FCS schools or do they form a mid-level between the two.

Next question after that is do the major conferences completely sever themselves from the NCAA taking other sports with them. Basketball is the second highest profile sport and there are a number of very high profile BB schools that don't play football, many of these in the Big East. Do these schools get invited in for BB purposes or do they get left out in the cold as well. Subtract the Big 10, Big 12 and to a lesser extent the SEC and PAC and you have to question the viability of the NCAA BB tourney as we know it now.

It may also be interesting to see how schools that are on the fringe or below that don't want to be left out respond to this. We may see some major capital improvement projects such as stadiums and practice facilities that become expensive white elephants built in the near future.
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I admit I was scanning the lammie board to see their reaction to another door slamming in their face. Some of them were saying that this would allow the smaller schools to turn the tables on the Big 4 by shutting them out of the other sports, specifically the NCAA tourney. All I could do was :lol:. The major flaw in their argument is that the schools in the Big 4 drive 90% of fan interest in college athletics, including basketball. Without the big schools participating, it will just be another nail in the coffin for the have-nots in big time college athletics.
 
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buffedup said:
I admit I was scanning the lammie board to see their reaction to another door slamming in their face. Some of them were saying that this would allow the smaller schools to turn the tables on the Big 4 by shutting them out of the the other sports, specifically the NCAA tourney. All I could do was :lol:. The major flaw in their argument is that the schools in the Big 4 drive 90% of fan interest in college athletics, including basketball. Without the big schools participating, it will just be another nail in the coffin for the have-nots in big time college athletics.
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You are correct here. Nobody tunes into the NCAA tourney to see the MWC teams or the Mid-American AC schools. They are looking for the big names. There is some interest each year in a couple of Cinderellas but even that interest is because they are playing the "Name" schools.

The schools for the most part outside the big 4 conferences that draw attention are non-football schools like the Big East BB schools (Georgetown, Villanova, etc.) and a couple others like Gonzaga. Basketball allows the flexibility that the big 4 could welcome another conference or two that are BB only or all sports but football meaning that they wouldn't have to share the football money. The BB schools with football teams would then be forced to make a choice, drop football, play their football in the lower division and BB in the upper division, or see their program slip into obscurity. This would not impact many schools but a few big name schools currently in the ACC such as North Carolina and some BE football schools like Syracuse would be put in a tough position.
 
rynobuff said:
So what happens to the ACC/Big East football also-rans in such a situation. Just plain left in the dark? Syracuse, North Carolina, Maryland, etc just have to give up ever having a chance of winning the MNC (yes I know its unlikely anyways). Damn, who would've thought two years ago that Iowa State, Baylor, and the Kansas schools would be in a better situation than those Big East/ACC guys.
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No way does the ACC get left out of the big boy picture despite being only the 5th best BCS conference. But I can see the Big East leftovers getting relegated to the MWC/CUSA level, with the exception of a few schools like Rutgers and UConn.
 
V-Tech is politically tied-at-the-hip with UVA. No way they are leaving the ACC behind without the Cavs having a better place to go. So, unless the Big Ten expands into ACC territory, they won't be going anywhere.

Maryland would love to go to the Big Ten as well, they don't have the academic chops that UVA does and still tied in with the "OG" ACC schools. They aren't exactly a perfect fit in the Big Ten financially but bring access to a big market and recruiting grounds. Penn State has long championed them as a potential Big Ten regional rival.

UNC, NC State, Duke, and Wake Forest form the power base of the ACC, new and old, it is hard to see how they would ever break-up the Tobacco road group.

Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. would be happy to jump to the Big Ten, but there doesn't seem to be a legit chance for any of those schools to get an invite if the Big Ten ever expands further, unless Notre Dame somehow leverages one of their traditional rivals into the Big Ten. Small chance of that...

Miami seems like a football-factory school, but they have been trying to change their image for the past decade into an "ACC" type school with high-end academics, and if you look at the # of fans in the stands lately, it seems they have achieved that goal. Can't see them getting into the Big 12 or the Big 12 showing any true interest in them.

Georgia Tech wouldn't seem like a normal Big 12 type school, as they are pretty well entrenched in the ACC. But they don't necessarily have anything holding them back from jumping ship.

Florida State and Clemson are exactly what the Big 12 wants and needs and they both "fit" better (geography aside) with the Big 12 schools then they do with the ACC schools. But the ACC also knows they really need those schools as the football kingpins in their league so it could be a hard fight to pull them away.

Louisville is still sitting in the background as a good fit for the Big 12 as school #11, but they need 1 or 3 more schools to go with them.

Cincy is hoping for that Big 12 invite as well, but until FSU and Clemson say no, they won't even get a sniff.
 
sackman said:
It very likely also means that UT will NEVER darken the door of the PAC 12 again. This is cause for celebration.
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It is, but it could be a problem some day down the line as this basically means the P12 is out of expansion options if the B12 is here to stay. Texas and Oklahoma are the only 2 expansion options that make economic sense for the P12 as both bring something to the table unless you want to get truly silly and go even further East.

I am happy where we are, I am happy with the way the P12 is and didn´t expand further, but one day, this might be a problem.
 
^^^ This is what I was thinking. Everyone is talking about the SEC, B1G and Big12 expanding, but were that to happen the PAC has no other meaningful options for expansion. If the super conferences do arrive, and the Big 12 is here to stay, then the PAC has very limited options in getting to 16.
 
Jens1893 said:
Right now we do not, but I am trying to think 10-15 years into the future here.
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BYU, New Mexico, Rice, Kansas, UNLV, SDSU, Notre Dame. Out of those 7, pick for 4.

Rice, although worthless, gets us into Texas tv markets. Kansas is AAU and brings KC. New Mexico has Albuquerque, UNLV has Las Vegas, BYU is national. Maybe coerce Notre Dame into the picture.
 
rosstr said:
BYU, New Mexico, Rice, Kansas, UNLV, SDSU, Notre Dame. Out of those 7, pick for 4.

Rice, although worthless, gets us into Texas tv markets. Kansas is AAU and brings KC. New Mexico has Albuquerque, UNLV has Las Vegas, BYU is national. Maybe coerce Notre Dame into the picture.
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Most of these are no thank you's. ND isn't going to happen. If they join a conference it will be the Big 10, or maybe the Big XII. They aren't interested in what is primarily a west coast conference. BYU is a no thanks as well, they are a terrible fit because of the religious restrictions and are a bad match academically. The PAC already has a solid foothold on the TV market with Utah. Rice is in Texas but doesn't give you much interest in the Texas TV market. That one is a non-starter. SDSU and UNLV are both programs that can't even get the attention of their own home markets, lousy attendance and TV ratings. Also not PAC quality academically. New Mexico isn't an academic powerhouse either but it is the flagship university in a fast growing TV market that doesn't have much other local competition for the sports dollar. If they could get their act together on the field I think they could get the attention of the market and produce decent ticket sales. They already do in basketball. That leaves the only two legitimate candidates on your list as a potential UNM if they get their act together and KU which is a bit out of the edge of the conference footprint.

You could potentially also look at UTEP which is as legit as some of the others on your list. A better bet than Rice might be Houston but they are still not somebody I would want in the conference.

It looks like we are headed toward 4-5 superconferences and it is assumed that those conferences will be 16 teams each. I don't buy it. The whole thing doesn't happen without the participation of the PAC and the Big 10. The Big 10 doesn't show a great deal of interest in going to 16 nor does the PAC. I doubt that the Big 10 grows again unless it involves Notre Dame. For them they would add one other team for balance.

12 teams is a very good number. It lets you have divisions and still play the other division teams often enough to maintain a sense of conference identity. 14 is workable if you cut one OOC game, 16 becomes almost two conferences connected in name only.
 
Jens1893 said:
Right now we do not, but I am trying to think 10-15 years into the future here.
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I think the Pac 12 has no need to ever expand unless it works for the conference. While being on the west coast limits the expansion options, it also provides the conference with a natural barrier where there are no rival conferences in the west to worry about. The conference owns a massive population footprint in some of the fastest growing population areas in the country. Perfect position to be in.
 
buffedup said:
I think the Pac 12 has no need to ever expand unless it works for the conference. While being on the west coast limits the expansion options, it also provides the conference with a natural barrier where there are no rival conferences in the west to worry about. The conference owns a massive population footprint in some of the fastest growing population areas in the country. Perfect position to be in.
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This is my feeling also. If everybody else is at 16 teams, I'm not convinced we have to be as well.
 
I think the PAC and the Big10-12 found a way around expansion by agreeing to play each other once a year. This way, they get another high profile opponent, but they don't have to split the TV revenue pie by 16.

I don't see either conference expanding again *



*Notre dumb being the only possibility for the Big10-12, and I think they'd stop at 13....they did 11 for so long, it wouldn't bother them.
 
Personally, I think the SEC and ACC are going to see that expanding that big doesn't really work out all that well and they will wish they had never gone to 14 or 16 teams...might even want to downgrade if it could happen
 
SECOBuffsFan said:
Personally, I think the SEC and ACC are going to see that expanding that big doesn't really work out all that well and they will wish they had never gone to 14 or 16 teams...might even want to downgrade if it could happen
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A 16-team conference works pretty well in a 14-game regular season. It's only a matter of time, IMO. The reason it didn't work for the old WAC is because they didn't have the pull to force the NCAA into an expanded regular season. The SEC does have that pull. I would put the over/under on an expanded regular season at 4 years.
 
Interesting timing on the new-bowl-alliance announcement. They may or may not have been able to do this before, idk. But now that the BigPlusMinus conference is weak, the $ec jumps with an opportunity to dominate another athletic event.
 
rosstr said:
BYU, New Mexico, Rice, Kansas, UNLV, SDSU, Notre Dame. Out of those 7, pick for 4.

Rice, although worthless, gets us into Texas tv markets. Kansas is AAU and brings KC. New Mexico has Albuquerque, UNLV has Las Vegas, BYU is national. Maybe coerce Notre Dame into the picture.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that Houston is a hell of a lot better as a long term expansion candidate than Rice if they continue working on their academics. Also Air Force should likely be on the list as well. Not sure if the Kansas regents would ever let KU split with Kjuco since they share the same board.
 
If the 12PAC expands you can forget being in a division with the LA market or Cali for that matter. Expansion of the PAC can only hurt CU.
 
Darian3Hagan said:
If the 12PAC expands you can forget being in a division with the LA market or Cali for that matter. Expansion of the PAC can only hurt CU.
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This.

Expansion in the Pac 12 would be a bad thing for CU. I'm perfectly happy keeping the status quo. I don't see a scenario 10-15 years down the line that would make me change my mind.
 
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