Big XII not expanding...for now.

[SD Buff]

Is the Big 10 really better academically than the Pac-12? Doesn't look like it to me.

Depends what metrics or ranking system you'd want to use. The PAC is more top heavy than the other two. He's wrong on TV ratings (time zones) and attendance. (second from last) Could easily argue every single one of his points if one was so inclined.

 

[onealcd]

Depends what metrics or ranking system you'd want to use. The PAC is more top heavy than the other two. He's wrong on TV ratings (time zones) and attendance. (second from last) Could easily argue every single one of his points if one was so inclined.

I am surprised Texas fans think a move to the PAC would make them lose traction/leadership within the state. It puts them in the second best conference behind the SEC so wouldn't that do the exact opposite?

 

[SD Buff]

My read on the internet fans. I don't believe XOVERX is anywhere close to the majority. Appears most are happy to stay in the Big 12. And if that doesn't happen -- you have a mixed bag where they'd prefer. Oklahoma fans on the other hand appear to want to GTFO. Whatever happens though -- you're going to have plenty of disagreement.

 

[sackman]

Figured you'd like this post from one of UT's more arrogant asshat's. Every post from this dude - Texas is the center of the universe.

He's actually right. For as much as we don't want UT here, they shouldn't want to be here, either. It's a bad fit both ways.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Article with an undisclosed B12 AD that is suggesting that it was actually NU, OU, ISU, A&M, and KU that were part of a package trying to engineer their way into the B1G back in 2010.

http://m.omaha.com/huskers/barfknec...fc0-3337-11e5-8cc1-4373847a1bfe.html?mode=jqm

Now it appears that the B1G might be interested in a deal that brings OU and KU to the conference.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...a-state-sought-to-join-big-ten-in-2010-072615

Seems everyone hates UTerus. Whom, without OU really diminishes the B12s clout. And it leaves UT to have to approach the SEC or the P12 with hat in hand for a spot. Rather than get in from the position of strength thru arrogance they had (that actually ended up destroying the B12). UT has an enemy now in both those conferences that might likely block their entrance or hamstring and subjugate them.

opcorn:

 

[Deleted member 807]

I am surprised Texas fans think a move to the PAC would make them lose traction/leadership within the state. It puts them in the second best conference behind the SEC so wouldn't that do the exact opposite?

Texas wants to bring along as many I-35 partners as they can to ensure fans up and down the state of Texas have access to their athletic events.

Texas + a consortium is a deal breaker. Texas will not go the Colorado route and break free from their concubines. They see their role as a counterbalance to the California schools, and worthy of a seat at the head of the table, which would be bolstered by an alliance of geographically aligned partners within a drivable distance of Austin.

Being in the PAC while being neutered as just another conference member for the sake of being in the 2nd best conference does not excite UT.

For UT to come to the PAC, the conditions are to accept the Longhorns plus 3 to 6 others, or nothing.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Texas wants to bring along as many I-35 partners as they can to ensure fans up and down the state of Texas have access to their athletic events.

Texas + a consortium is a deal breaker. Texas will not go the Colorado route and break free from their concubines. They see their role as a counterbalance to the California schools, and worthy of a seat at the head of the table, which would be bolstered by an alliance of geographically aligned partners within a drivable distance of Austin.

Being in the PAC while being neutered as just another conference member for the sake of being in the 2nd best conference does not excite UT.

For UT to come to the PAC, the conditions are to accept the Longhorns plus 3 to 6 others, or nothing.

If that's the case, and it makes some sense, I think the old SWC is about to comeback from the grave. CU (and A&M in the SEC) will voices concerns about UT having that much power and that many proxy votes in the conference. If what I posted above is true and OU and KU do leave the B12 has its work ahead of them to remain relevant. Watching them choke on their on dick is entertaining.

 

[BuffsNYC]

If that's the case, and it makes some sense, I think the old SWC is about to comeback from the grave. CU (and A&M in the SEC) will voices concerns about UT having that much power and that many proxy votes in the conference. If what I posted above is true and OU and KU do leave the B12 has its work ahead of them to remain relevant. Watching them choke on their on dick is entertaining.

It seems pretty clear that the Pac 12 presidents don't give much of a crap about UT, and, in the end, they are in control. I don't see much of chance of any giveaways to UT to bring them to the Pac. The headquarters will stay in San Francisco, the Pac 12 network will get all 3rd tier rights (the longhorn network would have to close), Bailer won't be part of the Pac, etc. I don't see UT coming under those circumstances, unless they really have no place else to go.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Watching them choke on their on dick is entertaining.

The UT brand value just keeps eroding. Pride comes before a fall.

 

[SD Buff]

Under achieving silver spooned egomaniacs. I wish they'd go independent and in time will realize how little stroke they have. They aren't a national brand like notre dame. Flagship school of a large state with the hubris to match

from phone

 

[pcbuff]

Under achieving silver spooned egomaniacs. I wish they'd go independent and in time will realize how little stroke they have. They aren't a national brand like notre dame. Flagship school of a large state with the hubris to match

from phone

I think they are finally realizing that the loss of CU, NU, and a&m hurt their brand. I think the continued financial success of the departed also made the AD's of their conference envious to escape from the boot on their neck. It will be interesting and fun to see how this plays out.

 

[Denver_sc]

Is the Big 10 really better academically than the Pac-12? Doesn't look like it to me.

I don't know that you can even say clearly that the B1G is better than the PAC. Stanford and Cal can hold their own with anyone, and UW, UCLA and USC are no academic slouches, either. CU is very good as well.. The Arizona schools are probably about average, with Utah. The bottom quartile (OSU, UofO and WSU) is probably no worse than any other conference's bottom quartile excepting maybe the ACC.

Here's a link wherein all PAC Universities except the aforementioned bottom 3 are top 90 in the world:

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2014.html

 

[Deleted member 807]

But, but, but...they are rich. They have more money than everybody else.

Money = power. Therefore they are the most powerful athletic department on the planet.

Everyone bow down, now, and worship mammon and yield to UT's authoritah!

The more I learn about UT, the more I appreciate A&M, BU, TCU and even Houston's contribution in the erosion of the Longhorn brand.

 

[Dark Bohner]

The thing with Texas is, if forced, they will come hat in hand. But once they are allowed in the door, they will then start the demise of the conference by doing everything in their power to take control. Just think of how the Big 12 transformed from the beginning until CU and NU left. UT is a cancer, and they honestly should go independent.

 

[leftybuff]

Personally, I hope OU and KU leave the B12 for the B1G Integer. UT is a conference killer. They killed the SWC (Arky finally had enough and left, which was the deathknell along with all the cheating). They effectively killed, or are killing the B12. CU, NU, Mizzou and aTm have fled to greener pastures and UT just doubles down by crapping on their current conference partners with a UT only TV deal. As others have noted, UT is a cancer. Bringing that mutant cow into the P12 would be the biggest mistake ever for the P12.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Personally, I hope OU and KU leave the B12 for the B1G Integer. UT is a conference killer. They killed the SWC (Arky finally had enough and left, which was the deathknell along with all the cheating). They effectively killed, or are killing the B12. CU, NU, Mizzou and aTm have fled to greener pastures and UT just doubles down by crapping on their current conference partners with a UT only TV deal. As others have noted, UT is a cancer. Bringing that mutant cow into the P12 would be the biggest mistake ever for the P12.

It's worth playing Longhorn's advocate on the subject of being blamed as a conference killer. I'll paraphrase from Shaggy's mega conference realignment thread.

Arky, A&M, Mizzou, CU and now OU are all delusional bitches for blaming Texas for problems they might have had with the B12 and the SWC.

Don't start ****, won't be no ****.

It's ridiculous that UT should be responsible for the welfare of other schools. Nothing at Belmont (bldg where UTAD resides) is going on that influences decisions made on other campuses.

There is nothing wrong with acting in your own self-interest. Texas is acting in their own best interest. Any other program would do the same if they were playing the hand Texas was dealt.

Texas is perfectly happy if OU or CU or A&M or anybody else wants to launch their own TV Network. Don't blame UT for having enough fans to support their own network.

Other schools need to sack up and compete with Texas instead of act like whiny bitches.

If you want to have UT sized money and power, go earn it. This is America where success should be recognized, not ridiculed.

The SWC disbanded because SMU and other programs were caught cheating. UT didn't get busted for coke, transAms and hookers.

A&M and Neb can blame UT, but they need to figure out how to beat UT instead of run away scared. The blame game is just a cover up for their own weakness and stupidity.

Colorado: Sorry PAC. No take-backs. What a **** show.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Figured you'd like this post from one of UT's more arrogant asshat's. Every post from this dude - Texas is the center of the universe.

What he doesn't realize, probably because he's too young to remember the SWC, is what that old SWC was like. There were years at the end where the only ranked teams to play were the early out of conference match ups. The conference had become more of a regional draw for TV with not as many games making it on national TV too. There was no exciting teams except occasionally UT or A&M. Once the quality of the conference came into question the big time recruits started bypassing the in state programs to play somewhere else.

Additionally, If he thinks UT can make it as an independent he's wrong there too. Schools like Miami, FSU, and Penn State joined conferences because they had a hard time scheduling. Especially in the non revenue sports. He's therefore probably not an actual graduate.

 

[leftybuff]

It's worth playing Longhorn's advocate on the subject of being blamed as a conference killer. I'll paraphrase from Shaggy's mega conference realignment thread.

Arky, A&M, Mizzou, CU and now OU are all delusional bitches for blaming Texas for problems they might have had with the B12 and the SWC.

Don't start ****, won't be no ****.

It's ridiculous that UT should be responsible for the welfare of other schools. Nothing at Belmont (bldg where UTAD resides) is going on that influences decisions made on other campuses.

There is nothing wrong with acting in your own self-interest. Texas is acting in their own best interest. Any other program would do the same if they were playing the hand Texas was dealt.

Texas is perfectly happy if OU or CU or A&M or anybody else wants to launch their own TV Network. Don't blame UT for having enough fans to support their own network.

Other schools need to sack up and compete with Texas instead of act like whiny bitches.

If you want to have UT sized money and power, go earn it. This is America where success should be recognized, not ridiculed.

The SWC disbanded because SMU and other programs were caught cheating. UT didn't get busted for coke, transAms and hookers.

A&M and Neb can blame UT, but they need to figure out how to beat UT instead of run away scared. The blame game is just a cover up for their own weakness and stupidity.

Colorado: Sorry PAC. No take-backs. What a **** show.

xx

 

[sackman]

I'm sitting in one of the really small rooms in my house and a thought occurred to me. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, or how likely it is. However, given what has happened in recent years it seems like this actually could happen:

The ACC grabs WVU (makes sense because, let's face it, WVU in the Big 12 is a dumb idea)
B10 grabs OU and KU (makes sense, not geographically, but because they want 16 teams and access to the OKC, DFW & KC television markets.
UT, OSU and KSU can't go anywhere because nobody really wants them.
The B12 is left with UT, TT, Bailer, TCU, OSU, KSU and ISU. All of those schools, with the exception of ISU, are legit P5 schools. They just have academic, geographic or cultural issues that keep them from moving into one of the major conferences.
UT looks at what is left and gathers it's minions together. They have to add another five teams. Three won't do it. They need the exposure that a CCG will give them. Their choices are among the following: Houston, SMU, Rice, UNM, CSU, BYU and Boise. SMU and Rice add nothing in terms of fan following, prestige, history (or in the case of SMU - positive history), or television sets. The other five get in.
This is how CSU ends up in the Big 12.

 

[leftybuff]

I'm sitting in one of the really small rooms in my house and a thought occurred to me. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, or how likely it is. However, given what has happened in recent years it seems like this actually could happen:

The ACC grabs WVU (makes sense because, let's face it, WVU in the Big 12 is a dumb idea)
B10 grabs OU and KU (makes sense, not geographically, but because they want 16 teams and access to the OKC, DFW & KC television markets.
UT, OSU and KSU can't go anywhere because nobody really wants them.
The B12 is left with UT, TT, Bailer, TCU, OSU, KSU and ISU. All of those schools, with the exception of ISU, are legit P5 schools. They just have academic, geographic or cultural issues that keep them from moving into one of the major conferences.
UT looks at what is left and gathers it's minions together. They have to add another five teams. Three won't do it. They need the exposure that a CCG will give them. Their choices are among the following: Houston, SMU, Rice, UNM, CSU, BYU and Boise. SMU and Rice add nothing in terms of fan following, prestige, history (or in the case of SMU - positive history), or television sets. The other five get in.
This is how CSU ends up in the Big 12.

The one thing about all this realignment talk that I wonder about is how would any conference function spanning three time zones? No P5 conference does it, do they? IIRC, the old WAC that had 15 teams strewn from one end of the country to the other lasted what, 3-4 years? For that reason alone, I do not see central time zone teams added to the P12, Uterus and their bitches missed that boat and I don't think it is coming around again. I don't see why the B1G or Big12 would stretch back to the MST zone to bring in CSU or Boise when there are other candidates as viable in the CST or EST zones. The TV scheduling headaches would be too great for a P5 to stretch over three time zones, I would think, and TV drives all of this. Where am I wrong?

I think the P12 stays at 12. B1G and SEC may get to 16 because the geography and population would support that. The real contest is who is left standing between ACC and B12.

 

[sackman]

The one thing about all this realignment talk that I wonder about is how would any conference function spanning three time zones? No P5 conference does it, do they? IIRC, the old WAC that had 15 teams strewn from one end of the country to the other lasted what, 3-4 years? For that reason alone, I do not see central time zone teams added to the P12, Uterus and their bitches missed that boat and I don't think it is coming around again. I don't see why the B1G or Big12 would stretch back to the MST zone to bring in CSU or Boise when there are other candidates as viable in the CST or EST zones. The TV scheduling headaches would be too great for a P5 to stretch over three time zones, I would think, and TV drives all of this. Where am I wrong?

I think the P12 stays at 12. B1G and SEC may get to 16 because the geography and population would support that. The real contest is who is left standing between ACC and B12.

If my theoretical scenario plays out, WVU would go to the ACC. The B12 would then be in only one time zone and could expand into the Mountain time zone fairly easily, picking up CSU, UNM, Boise and BYU. It would actually provide for some economies of scale and traveling partners. Scary thought, but it would actually work pretty well.

 

[leftybuff]

If my theoretical scenario plays out, WVU would go to the ACC. The B12 would then be in only one time zone and could expand into the Mountain time zone fairly easily, picking up CSU, UNM, Boise and BYU. It would actually provide for some economies of scale and traveling partners. Scary thought, but it would actually work pretty well.

That is true. I just wonder whether your list of schools for UTerus to choose from is all they would consider. Memphis, Cincinnati, Southern Miss and probably a half dozen more could be considered too. If CSU got in, I imagine their TX recruiting would pick up.

 

[sackman]

That is true. I just wonder whether your list of schools for UTerus to choose from is all they would consider. Memphis, Cincinnati, Southern Miss and probably a half dozen more could be considered too. If CSU got in, I imagine their TX recruiting would pick up.

I guess I look at it this way: The growth over the next 20 years isn't going to come in places like Ohio, Memphis and Southern Mississippi. It's going to come in places like Northern Colorado, Utah and New Mexico.

Before people start scoffing at the notion of growth in Northern Colorado, I'll tell you something - it's growing very fast right now. The Ft. Collins, Loveland, Greeley area is exploding right now. Towns like Windsor, Johnstown, Evans and Timnath are growing like crazy. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the two counties of Weld and Larimer will have over a million people in another 20-30 years.

 

[hokiehead]

I'm sitting in one of the really small rooms in my house and a thought occurred to me. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, or how likely it is. However, given what has happened in recent years it seems like this actually could happen:

The ACC grabs WVU (makes sense because, let's face it, WVU in the Big 12 is a dumb idea)
B10 grabs OU and KU (makes sense, not geographically, but because they want 16 teams and access to the OKC, DFW & KC television markets.
UT, OSU and KSU can't go anywhere because nobody really wants them.
The B12 is left with UT, TT, Bailer, TCU, OSU, KSU and ISU. All of those schools, with the exception of ISU, are legit P5 schools. They just have academic, geographic or cultural issues that keep them from moving into one of the major conferences.
UT looks at what is left and gathers it's minions together. They have to add another five teams. Three won't do it. They need the exposure that a CCG will give them. Their choices are among the following: Houston, SMU, Rice, UNM, CSU, BYU and Boise. SMU and Rice add nothing in terms of fan following, prestige, history (or in the case of SMU - positive history), or television sets. The other five get in.
This is how CSU ends up in the Big 12.

glad to see you engaged in this debate.

1. the only way WVU to ACC makes sense in your scenario is if ND becomes a full ACC member and WVU rounds up to 16. Additionally, WVU would have to beat out Cincy and UConn, who are reportedly putting a hard press on joining the conference. The triggering the event for ND going full-ACC is not immediately obvious -- many believe that if the ACC becomes threatened (e.g. if the B1G offers UNC and GIT), that ND will sign up for full membership to stabilize the ACC (I'm not convinced that will happen). FTR, I'd be happy to see WVU in the ACC (huge contingent of grads in WMA and gives ND a geographic partner), but don't think the UNC and UVAs will go for it.
2. ISU is a legit P5 school (academics, stadium size, attendance, size of alumni base, alumni that actually care about sports), but I do think they're at risk of being left out. the B1G and the XII are the only conferences that make any geographical sense, and the B1G already has Iowa.
3. I don't think Boise gets in. Too small a stadium, no academics, no TV market. their fans do travel well, but that's not a needle mover in this decision.

 

[sackman]

glad to see you engaged in this debate.

1. the only way WVU to ACC makes sense in your scenario is if ND becomes a full ACC member and WVU rounds up to 16. Additionally, WVU would have to beat out Cincy and UConn, who are reportedly putting a hard press on joining the conference. The triggering the event for ND going full-ACC is not immediately obvious -- many believe that if the ACC becomes threatened (e.g. if the B1G offers UNC and GIT), that ND will sign up for full membership to stabilize the ACC (I'm not convinced that will happen). FTR, I'd be happy to see WVU in the ACC (huge contingent of grads in WMA and gives ND a geographic partner), but don't think the UNC and UVAs will go for it.
2. ISU is a legit P5 school (academics, stadium size, attendance, size of alumni base, alumni that actually care about sports), but I do think they're at risk of being left out. the B1G and the XII are the only conferences that make any geographical sense, and the B1G already has Iowa.
3. I don't think Boise gets in. Too small a stadium, no academics, no TV market. their fans do travel well, but that's not a needle mover in this decision.

I think the discussions are fun until the devolve into "When the inevitable happens and UT comes to the Pac 12". That's just moronic for any number of reasons. Yet it seems to always go that way.

I acknowledge a lot has to happen for this plan to work. It's the only way I can see CSU ever getting that coveted P5 invite, though.

 

[Buff_since76]

I'm sitting in one of the really small rooms in my house and a thought occurred to me. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, or how likely it is. However, given what has happened in recent years it seems like this actually could happen:

The ACC grabs WVU (makes sense because, let's face it, WVU in the Big 12 is a dumb idea)
B10 grabs OU and KU (makes sense, not geographically, but because they want 16 teams and access to the OKC, DFW & KC television markets.

UT, OSU and KSU can't go anywhere because nobody really wants them.
The B12 is left with UT, TT, Bailer, TCU, OSU, KSU and ISU. All of those schools, with the exception of ISU, are legit P5 schools. They just have academic, geographic or cultural issues that keep them from moving into one of the major conferences.
UT looks at what is left and gathers it's minions together. They have to add another five teams. Three won't do it. They need the exposure that a CCG will give them. Their choices are among the following: Houston, SMU, Rice, UNM, CSU, BYU and Boise. SMU and Rice add nothing in terms of fan following, prestige, history (or in the case of SMU - positive history), or television sets. The other five get in.
This is how CSU ends up in the Big 12.

In your scenario B1G goes to 16 and ACC goes to 15. I think Hookie is right in the ND would need to then move to lock themselves into ACC. With 2 at 16, you would have to think the SEC would be interested in reaching that level as well. I don't think UT would want to go there as they would be following Mizzou and aTm. Also, I would guess Mizzou and aTm would warn others about what it is like to be in a conference with UT. Who does the SEC then go for? OSU, KSU, TCU, and Baylor would be the teams they would probably consider. I can see OSU fitting in with them well. The last slot is a toss up. I have no idea what they would decide to do as i don't see anyone else fitting in from a culture perspective, or adding a large revenue market.

If UT is on there own and trying to maintain the last P5 conference with Baylor, TTech, Iowa State, K-State, and TCU, I could see them pushing to go all the way to 12 with adding most of the following:

USF
UCF
AFA
Boise State
BYU
CSU
Cinn
UCONN

With one of the left over B12 going to SEC.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

In your scenario B1G goes to 16 and ACC goes to 15. I think Hookie is right in the ND would need to then move to lock themselves into ACC. With 2 at 16, you would have to think the SEC would be interested in reaching that level as well. I don't think UT would want to go there as they would be following Mizzou and aTm. Also, I would guess Mizzou and aTm would warn others about what it is like to be in a conference with UT. Who does the SEC then go for? OSU, KSU, TCU, and Baylor would be the teams they would probably consider. I can see OSU fitting in with them well. The last slot is a toss up. I have no idea what they would decide to do as i don't see anyone else fitting in from a culture perspective, or adding a large revenue market.

If UT is on there own and trying to maintain the last P5 conference with Baylor, TTech, Iowa State, K-State, and TCU, I could see them pushing to go all the way to 12 with adding most of the following:

USF
UCF
AFA
Boise State
BYU
CSU
Cinn
UCONN

With one of the left over B12 going to SEC.

If the B1G and ACC go to 16 the SEC probably will too. What then does the Pac do under such a crisis.

The suggestion that those conferences pick up outlier schools (WVU in BXII for example) pose tremendous difficulties for the school(s) way outside the traditional footprint. We all like to think of life in terms of football but their are golf teams, tennis teams, soccer, baseball, and other sports that seriously tax the budget for in conference games that are out of conference distances away.

 

[sackman]

I don't think the B12 is interested in being spread out over three time zones. They'll look at where the growth is and where it will be in the future and go there. JMHO.

 

[sackman]

If the B1G and ACC go to 16 the SEC probably will too. What then does the Pac do under such a crisis.

Nothing. It's somebody else's crisis, not ours.

 

[Dark Bohner]

.
The B12 is left with UT, TT, Bailer, TCU, OSU, KSU and ISU. All of those schools, with the exception of ISU, are legit P5 schools. They just have academic, geographic or cultural issues that keep them from moving into one of the major conferences.

Bailer a legit P5 school? ISU is far more deserving. Such short memories people have. They were the doormat of the Big 12, and only invited into the Big 12 due to politics. They are a private religious university that has historically sucked at football and just happens to be redhot over the last few years. I think they are not a historically even close to a P5 program.