Bohn: we're not about to give up on Dan Hawkins

[Chilly]

At lease we understand each other's perspective....

Yes :smile2::smile2::lol:

 

[NuggNinja]

I am ignoring the fact that this Article is an entire 14 days old? An entire 14 days? Do you really think those who are mentioned in that article as supporting Hawkins, for many of the same reasons I have discussed, are really back tracking 14 days later?

We are all disappointed in to the start of this year. But 2 games don't make a football season. Some of us recognize this. I understand many fans live and die with each game, but you can't lose perspective. There is alot of football still to be played, and even though the season has not started off the way many wanted or expected it to, that includes me, not everyone is going to jump off a cliff over 2 games. I am pretty sure as an ex-football coach, McCartney understand this.

Now since I have no insight into what he is thinking, I am not going to pretend as if I know one way or the other. But until he publicly changes his opinion, I am more likely to believe that what he thought a mere 14 days ago is still valid.

You're ignoring the fact that two games have been played in those 14 days. And in those two games, CU was humiliated on national television on both occasions.

Everyone who knows college football says that the biggest progression is made between game 1 and game 2, and CU managed to play worse in its second game.

Considering that a lot of people had the same view as McCartney before the season began and have abandoned it after witnessing the first two games, what McCartney said before those two games does not mean a lot.

 

[Junction]

Considering that a lot of people had the same view as McCartney before the season began and have abandoned it after witnessing the first two games, what McCartney said before those two games does not mean a lot.

If you know anything about Bill McCartney, you probably know that his views on whether something great is being built at CU are very unlikely to be changed by 2 games.

Not saying I necessarily agree with him, but Coach Mac doesn't sway with the breeze...

 

[Buffnik]

Let's call a spade a spade. I love Coach Mac. But let's not pretend that he's great at identifying Head Coaches. He wanted Simmons to follow him at CU. Guy paid his dues, for sure, but he didn't exactly light the world on fire at Oklahoma State.

 

[Chilly]

You're ignoring the fact that two games have been played in those 14 days. And in those two games, CU was humiliated on national television on both occasions.

Everyone who knows college football says that the biggest progression is made between game 1 and game 2, and CU managed to play worse in its second game.

Considering that a lot of people had the same view as McCartney before the season began and have abandoned it after witnessing the first two games, what McCartney said before those two games does not mean a lot.

and you buy into this cliche? It's game two and the season is already a lost cause because we didn't get better? I don't know of any coach of any sport that I have ever known, or played for, that would tell you if he doesn't see any improvement in his team between the first and second game that all is lost. That the chances of seeing any further significant improvement is slim to none now that game 2 is in the books.

 

[buffsyko]

and you buy into this cliche? It's game two and the season is already a lost cause because we didn't get better? I don't know of any coach of any sport that I have ever known, or played for, that would tell you if he doesn't see any improvement in his team between the first and second game that all is lost. That the chances of seeing any further significant improvement is slim to none now that game 2 is in the books.

What games are you watching and have you watched the past 3 years?

Since 2007, this team has become worse. Yet, instead of being accountable,hawk and staff would rather keep ginving the "we know we're doing things right" BS.

But, we will disagree on this and I like the conversation, got a bit nasty last night but after watching the first 2 games and who we will face, can you honestly say this team will improve much?

Maybe someday speedy will see the field again and simas is coming back,maybe the offense improves but not if ebner and espinoza are playing while simas,simmons,jefferson and wright are not.

The defense is awful and they will be the main reason for this team not winning many games if any.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Looking at Mac's 86 record he did lose 4 games to start the season. But we looked like we were in every game. Not the asskickings we've been receiving this season.

If we would've been in every game, I'd see some hope. I just think the team is obviously not responding.

 

[NuggNinja]

If you know anything about Bill McCartney, you probably know that his views on whether something great is being built at CU are very unlikely to be changed by 2 games.

Not saying I necessarily agree with him, but Coach Mac doesn't sway with the breeze...

I wouldn't presume to know what he thinks one way or another. My thing is that Chilly posted the quote from the article without reference to when it was made, like McCartney was making the same case as him based on it. While this might be true, that quote is not indicative of that sentiment, since it took place before the embarrassments that took place in the first two games.

Chilly- The team came out flat and made ridiculous mental mistakes against CSU, they seemed to make more mental mistakes against Toledo. This is indicative of poor coaching. I haven't seen anything from Hawkins to make me believe he will suddenly turn it around.

And cliches become cliches because there is a measure of truth to them.

 

[Chilly]

Let's call a spade a spade. I love Coach Mac. But let's not pretend that he's great at identifying Head Coaches. He wanted Simmons to follow him at CU. Guy paid his dues, for sure, but he didn't exactly light the world on fire at Oklahoma State.

Coach Simmons may not have been the right coach to take over a program like OSU and try to build it up. Don't forget Simmons stepped into a program that had been nailed by the NCAA for major violations right after Barry left for the NFL. If I recall correctly the Cowboys were given four years' probation, a three-year bowl ban and a two-year ban from live television. I think they got limited to something like 20 schollies for 4 or 5 years. Simmons came along only a few years after the sanctions were lifted.

If CU would have hired Simmons over Ricky, things could have very well been different. Ricky was a big gamble that never paid off the way it was suppose to. Why CU would allow him to take over the keys to McCartneys teams to learn on the job made no sense to me what so ever.


I am a firm believer that programs that breed long term success build their coaching staffs from within. Michigan and kNU are great examples of this. The worst thing NU did was get rid of Solich and MU should have promoted from within to replace Carr.

 

[JimmyBuff]

Disagree Chilly, Solich had no business being a head coach at Nebraska.. It set their program back years because of it..


Michigan needed a change, it was getting stale.. Not saying RichRod is the answer(although he's looking better now after the win today) but they needed a change. Ohio State was passing them by.

 

[Chilly]

What games are you watching and have you watched the past 3 years?

Since 2007, this team has become worse. Yet, instead of being accountable,hawk and staff would rather keep ginving the "we know we're doing things right" BS.

But, we will disagree on this and I like the conversation, got a bit nasty last night but after watching the first 2 games and who we will face, can you honestly say this team will improve much?

Maybe someday speedy will see the field again and simas is coming back,maybe the offense improves but not if ebner and espinoza are playing while simas,simmons,jefferson and wright are not.

The defense is awful and they will be the main reason for this team not winning many games if any.

can you see them going any direction but up. Based on the first 2 games I have some serious doubts if things can get corrected. But I also recognize we are 2 games into a 12 game season. I have played and watched sports long enough, that I know many things can happen in a season. Heck look at the Eagles last year. They were given up for dead after the Ravens game and some how managed to make it to the NFC championship game. Maybe the light goes on somehow for CU as well and enough things fall into place that this team gets itself qualified for a bowl game.

As far as the D goes. I have had serious doubts about this D from the start. How many times are we going to rush 3 on a 3rd and long, get ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING PRESSURE and watch the QB have 10 seconds to sit back and wait for a receive to come open. Collins has done that his entire time at CU and I absolutely hate it. That crap needs to stop. There are always to schools of thought on this, but to me, if your secondary is struggling, rather than putting people back in coverage to help, I would rather send the house and so no one has time to get open!

 

[buffsyko]

can you see them going any direction but up. Based on the first 2 games I have some serious doubts if things can get corrected. But I also recognize we are 2 games into a 12 game season. I have played and watched sports long enough, that I know many things can happen in a season. Heck look at the Eagles last year. They were given up for dead after the Ravens game and some how managed to make it to the NFC championship game. Maybe the light goes on somehow for CU as well and enough things fall into place that this team gets itself qualified for a bowl game.

As far as the D goes. I have had serious doubts about this D from the start. How many times are we going to rush 3 on a 3rd and long, get ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING PRESSURE and watch the QB have 10 seconds to sit back and wait for a receive to come open. Collins has done that his entire time at CU and I absolutely hate it. That crap needs to stop. There are always to schools of thought on this, but to me, if your secondary is struggling, rather than putting people back in coverage to help, I would rather send the house and so no one has time to get open!

Well, i've been well known to be the leader in bitching and moaning about our DT and DL recruiting,coaching etc...Many say I'm crazy that we are fine, not tooting my own horn, just saying that it all starts with recruiting and for years we haven't upgraded. Even hypo and brandon had better junior years and to me bandison doesn't develop guys up front.

I hope kasa gets back soon. Has west even played? Teams will spread us out, there OL will already be on our lb's and they can run or just throw deep down the middle past our safties.

Our coaches make no adjustments. It's a frustrating time to be a cu fan but,like most,we'll be watching them each game hoping for better results.

 

[Buffnik]

Coach Simmons may not have been the right coach to take over a program like OSU and try to build it up. Don't forget Simmons stepped into a program that had been nailed by the NCAA for major violations right after Barry left for the NFL. If I recall correctly the Cowboys were given four years' probation, a three-year bowl ban and a two-year ban from live television. I think they got limited to something like 20 schollies for 4 or 5 years. Simmons came along only a few years after the sanctions were lifted.

If CU would have hired Simmons over Ricky, things could have very well been different. Ricky was a big gamble that never paid off the way it was suppose to. Why CU would allow him to take over the keys to McCartneys teams to learn on the job made no sense to me what so ever.


I am a firm believer that programs that breed long term success build their coaching staffs from within. Michigan and kNU are great examples of this. The worst thing NU did was get rid of Solich and MU should have promoted from within to replace Carr.

Just because the Weasel was a less than ideal hire doesn't mean that Simmons would have been a good one. They're mutually exclusive.

Interesting that you bring up the sanctions that OSU had been under and that he had a lot of things he needed to help the program recover from. Similar to how you've depicted the CU situation. And also a high character guy that was supported strongly in public by Coach Mac. Eerily similar, I'd say.

Guess what? Oklahoma State even gave Simmons the 5th year you say is so important for Colorado to give Hawkins. Let's look at Simmons' record:

1996: 5-6
1997: 8-4 (including bowl loss)
1998: 5-6

So, after 3 seasons, he actually had a winning record at 18-16.

1999: 5-6

Still a slightly winning record, so give him a 5th year to see what he can do with a team that's all his own guys:

2000: 3-8

I think the parallels are amazing. Hawk's record has been a lot worse (no winning seasons and a .333 win %), but otherwise pretty darn close. Bowl game in year 2 and a lot of mediocrity ending with a big collapse. Hawk might also be ahead of schedule.

 

[Chilly]

Disagree Chilly, Solich had no business being a head coach at Nebraska.. It set their program back years because of it..


Michigan needed a change, it was getting stale.. Not saying RichRod is the answer(although he's looking better now after the win today) but they needed a change. Ohio State was passing them by.

Solich was 58-19 in 6 years at NU and was 3 of 6 in bowl games. I bet NU would kill to have that kind of record over the last 6 years. Heck I know I would!

Michigan may have been getting stale, but it threw away close to 40 years of promoting from within. Carr didn't exactly go out on the bottom. The program was in good shape. They would have been much better off trying keep it in the family. RichRod may end up doing well at Michigan, but the guy is a 1st call asshat from what I have read in paper about him and the way he left WVU. Reminds me alot of the Ricky.

 

[Chilly]

Just because the Weasel was a less than ideal hire doesn't mean that Simmons would have been a good one. They're mutually exclusive.

Interesting that you bring up the sanctions that OSU had been under and that he had a lot of things he needed to help the program recover from. Similar to how you've depicted the CU situation. And also a high character guy that was supported strongly in public by Coach Mac. Eerily similar, I'd say.

Guess what? Oklahoma State even gave Simmons the 5th year you say is so important for Colorado to give Hawkins. Let's look at Simmons' record:

1996: 5-6
1997: 8-4 (including bowl loss)
1998: 5-6

So, after 3 seasons, he actually had a winning record at 18-16.

1999: 5-6

Still a slightly winning record, so give him a 5th year to see what he can do with a team that's all his own guys:

2000: 3-8

I think the parallels are amazing. Hawk's record has been a lot worse (no winning seasons and a .333 win %), but otherwise pretty darn close. Bowl game in year 2 and a lot of mediocrity ending with a big collapse. Hawk might also be ahead of schedule.

Point is. he got the 5th year to show what he can do didn't he? That is all I am saying we should do in our situation. If Hawkins goes 3-8 in year 5 then it's time to move in a different direction and thank him for giving us all he had and doing his best.

 

[Buffnik]

Solich was 58-19 in 6 years at NU and was 3 of 6 in bowl games. I bet NU would kill to have that kind of record over the last 6 years. Heck I know I would!

Michigan may have been getting stale, but it threw away close to 40 years of promoting from within. Carr didn't exactly go out on the bottom. The program was in good shape. They would have been much better off trying keep it in the family. RichRod may end up doing well at Michigan, but the guy is a 1st call asshat from what I have read in paper about him and the way he left WVU. Reminds me alot of the Ricky.

Chilly,

My brother in law is a solid guy and lifelong Nebraska fan. He loved and still loves Solich as a great coach under Osborne, a great & loyal Husker, and a man of integrity. He has also spent a good chunk of change in support of the Ohio University program (online gear, donation) as many Nebraska fans have out of loyalty and as a thank you to Solich. But even he says that their recruiting went into the crapper under Solich, the team was on a significant downward slide that he couldn't fix, and that he's one of those guys who's a great #2 but not very good as a #1. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Chilly]

Chilly,

My brother in law is a solid guy and lifelong Nebraska fan. He loved and still loves Solich as a great coach under Osborne, a great & loyal Husker, and a man of integrity. He has also spent a good chunk of change in support of the Ohio University program (online gear, donation) as many Nebraska fans have out of loyalty and as a thank you to Solich. But even he says that their recruiting went into the crapper under Solich, the team was on a significant downward slide that he couldn't fix, and that he's one of those guys who's a great #2 but not very good as a #1. Take it for what it's worth.

That could very well be, sounds like he has a lot more insight than I do as to what was happening up at NU. From the outside looking in though Solich wasn't doing all that bad. I think part of his demise was being the coach to follow a legend.

 

[Timbuff10]

Do you really think that a new AD, with no ties to Barnett, who was hired to come in a completely eradicate all traces of the scandal and turn around the image of the AD department, was going to keep one of the central figures in the scandal? Seriously you believe this? Barnett couldn't even get the parents of local kids let him get a foot in the door because of the image that came along with him? How in the world do you think an new AD is going to accomplish his mandate of cleaning up the image of the football program, by keeping Barnett around?

Yes! As long as GB was winning he would have been around. When you screw up in the media and you lose, then they get rid of you. Maybe you don't understand how much money he would have brought in for the school if we beat NU and UT that year. Getting rid of a guy like that, would have made Bohn's tenure very short!

It doesn't matter anyway how it went down. It did and there was more to it than most of you know. Hawk is here, and that is the current problem that something can be done about. Now they just need to get it done.

 

[Hank]

Chilly:

What makes you think that this program is not regressing? What progress have you seen?

We go 2-10 in the first year.

Second year we go 6-7. Big win over OU. I'm pumped up as hell. It appears there is progress in this year. Plus we have a big recruiting class (compared to recent classes).

Last year was a big step backward. Not only do we have a losing record, but for the most part, we were not competitive in many of the games that we lost. Many of us pulled the injury card, some sensed some holes in the dike, some didn't know what to think (I was in the third camp - skeptically cautious). The recruiting class is mediocre.

This year we suffer two humiliating losses to two bad teams. Recruiting does not look good.

Has talent really improved? Look at our diminutive defensive line. Look at our receivers. Look at our quarterback. It's not all coaching.

Has our image improved? Yes, but it could not have gotten any worse. If image is the most important thing, I can think of one way to clean up the image of the football program. Get rid of it.

 

[Atownandy]

Doesn't matter if Bohn gives up on Hawkins. He will probably get canned at the same time. See: Pederson, Steve.

 

[Chilly]

You're ignoring the fact that two games have been played in those 14 days. And in those two games, CU was humiliated on national television on both occasions.

Everyone who knows college football says that the biggest progression is made between game 1 and game 2, and CU managed to play worse in its second game.

Considering that a lot of people had the same view as McCartney before the season began and have abandoned it after witnessing the first two games, what McCartney said before those two games does not mean a lot.

I think this answers your question.

http://www.allbuffs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38945

 

[DrunkPanda]

Doesn't matter if Bohn gives up on Hawkins. He will probably get canned at the same time. See: Pederson, Steve.

i really hope bohn gets fired this year as well. he's been even worse than hawkins (if that's even possible). he's the guy who made the fake "coaching searches" for both the football team and basketball team when he already had his candidate picked out and wouldn't give anyone else a fair evaluation. he's the genius that extended hawkins' contract (which is why we're in this mess) before hawkins proved squat...in fact i might be happy if we keep hawkins until next year and fire bohn this year. at least bohn wouldn't be able to screw up anymore by picking our next coach

 

[sackman]

Doesn't matter if Bohn gives up on Hawkins. He will probably get canned at the same time. See: Pederson, Steve.

i really hope bohn gets fired this year as well. he's been even worse than hawkins (if that's even possible). he's the guy who made the fake "coaching searches" for both the football team and basketball team when he already had his candidate picked out and wouldn't give anyone else a fair evaluation. he's the genius that extended hawkins' contract (which is why we're in this mess) before hawkins proved squat...in fact i might be happy if we keep hawkins until next year and fire bohn this year. at least bohn wouldn't be able to screw up anymore by picking our next coach

To paraphrase Clark W Griswold: "you guys are fu*ked in the head".

Either you have a very short memory, or you are unaware of what an athletic director is supposed to do. The difference in the overall health of the athletic department between today and the day Dick Tharp left is 180 degrees. We're light years ahead of that. You simply can't blame Mike Bohn for the fact that the football team sucks. He is a PR guy, and an extremely effective one at that. His hires have turned out to be less than what was hoped. Not one of the major hires has had a winning season since he/she stepped foot on campus. That sucks. However, these decisions were not made in a vacuum. He had consultants and some highly respected coaching recruiters working for him, Chuck Neinas for one.

People who are calling for Bohn to be fired are lunatics. Honestly. It's about the craziest thing I can think of. Fire the one guy who has kept the athletic department from going bankrupt. Brilliant idea, that.

 

[96 Buff]

To paraphrase Clark W Griswold: "you guys are fu*ked in the head".

Either you have a very short memory, or you are unaware of what an athletic director is supposed to do. The difference in the overall health of the athletic department between today and the day Dick Tharp left is 180 degrees. We're light years ahead of that. You simply can't blame Mike Bohn for the fact that the football team sucks. He is a PR guy, and an extremely effective one at that. His hires have turned out to be less than what was hoped. Not one of the major hires has had a winning season since he/she stepped foot on campus. That sucks. However, these decisions were not made in a vacuum. He had consultants and some highly respected coaching recruiters working for him, Chuck Neinas for one.

People who are calling for Bohn to be fired are lunatics. Honestly. It's about the craziest thing I can think of. Fire the one guy who has kept the athletic department from going bankrupt. Brilliant idea, that.

Agreed. What Bohn's done here is absolutely nothing like what Pederson did to ****braska's AD. At the time, the Hawkins hire looked to be fantastic. The extension looks ****ing retarded NOW, but also at the time looked to be good seeing as we'd just gone to a bowl game.

Just because Bohn hasn't ****canned the guy yet doesn't make him a bad AD. His hands are a wee-tad tied by the financial limitations of the AD.

 

[El Gringo]

To paraphrase Clark W Griswold: "you guys are fu*ked in the head".

Either you have a very short memory, or you are unaware of what an athletic director is supposed to do. The difference in the overall health of the athletic department between today and the day Dick Tharp left is 180 degrees. We're light years ahead of that. You simply can't blame Mike Bohn for the fact that the football team sucks. He is a PR guy, and an extremely effective one at that. His hires have turned out to be less than what was hoped. Not one of the major hires has had a winning season since he/she stepped foot on campus. That sucks. However, these decisions were not made in a vacuum. He had consultants and some highly respected coaching recruiters working for him, Chuck Neinas for one.

People who are calling for Bohn to be fired are lunatics. Honestly. It's about the craziest thing I can think of. Fire the one guy who has kept the athletic department from going bankrupt. Brilliant idea, that.

:yeahthat:

 

[unionbuff]

To paraphrase Clark W Griswold: "you guys are fu*ked in the head".

Either you have a very short memory, or you are unaware of what an athletic director is supposed to do. The difference in the overall health of the athletic department between today and the day Dick Tharp left is 180 degrees. We're light years ahead of that. You simply can't blame Mike Bohn for the fact that the football team sucks. He is a PR guy, and an extremely effective one at that. His hires have turned out to be less than what was hoped. Not one of the major hires has had a winning season since he/she stepped foot on campus. That sucks. However, these decisions were not made in a vacuum. He had consultants and some highly respected coaching recruiters working for him, Chuck Neinas for one.

People who are calling for Bohn to be fired are lunatics. Honestly. It's about the craziest thing I can think of. Fire the one guy who has kept the athletic department from going bankrupt. Brilliant idea, that.

Agreed. What Bohn's done here is absolutely nothing like what Pederson did to ****braska's AD. At the time, the Hawkins hire looked to be fantastic. The extension looks ****ing retarded NOW, but also at the time looked to be good seeing as we'd just gone to a bowl game.

Just because Bohn hasn't ****canned the guy yet doesn't make him a bad AD. His hands are a wee-tad tied by the financial limitations of the AD.

:yeahthat:

:thumbsup:
Bohn isn't and shouldn't be going anywhere.