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Class of '12 Guard Misses

Your picking and choosing points from your own arguments now, that should tell you how poor of a post it was.

Even though Hansen signed in 2012 he played a year at Northwest college so eligibility wise he's in Ski/Dinwiddie's class he was highschool class of 2011. That means he is a year older and more developed than any of the three you keep bringing up, so the question if you want to keep harping on Hansen should be: can Jenkins or Talton as juniors average 17ppg against the 265th worst schedule in the country as their team's primary offensive option is a **** conference? Yeah they could.

As for Stalzer - even if he was a hero he'd never average 17ppg on any team it was not then and will not ever be his game. Did Boyle probably miss on this scholly by your definition? certainly. But if you think a guy like Hansen (a marginal athlete who is a gunner, not quick enough to be a guard in our conference, too short to be a forward, and too slow to be either - and with a usage rate that would take shots away from guys like Scott/Dinwiddie/Booker/XJ) would over the course of his career be of more value to the team than a role playing PG who can step in? then i dont know what to tell you. Hansen might modify his game with stars around him but as it is right now with his usage rate, his turnover rate that makes "bad" Booker look good he'd actually detract from this team as opposed to contributing very little.

If Talton transferred to a mid-major next year he wouldn't score at or close to 17 ppg (he's at 4 ppg this year). That's hardly a reach on my part to claim. And a guy who scores 17 ppg is less valuable then a below average PG and arguably would detract from our team??? :lol: Its not even worth arguing about this if you're going to be so unreasonable.
 
For a long while I've seen Mr. Apples and Ms. Oranges yearning for each other in the Missed Connections. I'm glad we could use this thread to reacquaint them.
 
Mostly what I'm getting out of the OP is that Tad offered some really good players for 2012 and we lost some recruiting battles in the Pac-12.

Oh, and that we'd be happier with our team right now if we'd signed Wallace with XT. OK. Wish it had happened.

****ing Flukes. Wallace is the white whale of CU basketball recruiting from the last few years. Ugh.

Also, this thread is gold. I love it when JRK makes his appearances.
 
So JRK, have you ever seen Hansen play? If you have perhaps you can comment on the following:

That assertion you made about a local player turning out to have a good career meaning he's a miss is not how recruiting works. Recruiting, and the success of a player, is so often about fit more than talent. As a player in college, you have to find the right coach, the right offensive system, the right defensive system, the right level that you can play for. Eric Garcia is having a really, really good season for Wofford this year. Colorado knew about him, and let him go. Is he a miss? No, because they determined quite quickly that he didn't have the tools to enjoy sustained success at the high major level. In a similar situation, the CU staff obviously decided that Hansen wasn't a player that would help them in the Pac-12.

Now, let's ask ourselves why. Hansen, again, is a 6'4 wing, meaning he plays both the shooting guard and small forward spots. For height comparisons sake, that would make him shorter than every scholarship player on the team but Booker, Talton and Stalzer, all of whom are point guards. He would be competing with Askia Booker, Jaron Hopkins, a healthy Tre'Shaun Fletcher and a healthy Spencer Dinwiddie for playing time (all the above have spent some time at the 2 or 3). Who would he play above? Not Booker, as that argument ain't even close. Not Dinwiddie. Certainly not Fletcher. Sure, he's definitely more polished than Hopkins, but if you've ever seen Hansen play, you'll know that he's a below average athlete for low-major basketball and isn't a good defender. So, no, he's not playing over Jaron for extended minutes.

Here's the thing, there are really good players at all levels of basketball--I will never argue that. There are definite misses by high-majors all around the country every year. However, it's not statistics that tell you that. You have to actually watch them play extensively and be able to project what would translate from one level to another. Those bullying straight line drives Hansen succeeds with in Big Sky ball wouldn't fly when being guarded by 90% of the teams CU plays every year. In fact, 50% of his shots at the rim would be blocked by Pac-12 opponents because he gets no lift and creates minimal separation between ball and body. So you're trying to make an argument on someone you've failed to watch play--at least I'm assuming that because you've never argued my claim that you haven't. That is pretty close to a textbook definition of not knowing what you're talking about.
 
The one I regret is Hield. He's played well this year.

That said, I'm pretty sure that his home being only 3 hours away (on I35) had something to do with his college choice. Nothing you or me or the staff at CU could do about that.
 
The one I regret is Hield. He's played well this year.

That said, I'm pretty sure that his home being only 3 hours away (on I35) had something to do with his college choice. Nothing you or me or the staff at CU could do about that.

Yeah, there's no doubt that the staff didn't get some of the guys they really, really wanted.
 
Yeah, there's no doubt that the staff didn't get some of the guys they really, really wanted.

Very true. We aren't the Miami Heat - we aint gonna get everyone we want.


JRK- the staff is targeting some very talented players in the upcoming classes. I'm confident the Buffs won't land every single one they target. You might wanna step away from the ledge now .... just for safety purposes.
 
If Talton transferred to a mid-major next year he wouldn't score at or close to 17 ppg (he's at 4 ppg this year). That's hardly a reach on my part to claim. And a guy who scores 17 ppg is less valuable then a below average PG and arguably would detract from our team??? :lol: Its not even worth arguing about this if you're going to be so unreasonable.

Since you wanted to play in the land of hypotheticals i thought I'd join.

What if he transferred not to a mid-major, but to a low-major like Idaho st where Hansen plays?
And then started playing as much as Hansen and shooting as much as Hansen?

Right now Talton is used on 18% of our possessions to Hansen's 25% and plays 18 minutes to Hansen's 37 - pull the numbers out and where do you get, even if you don't adjust for the level of competition?
 
Since you wanted to play in the land of hypotheticals i thought I'd join.

What if he transferred not to a mid-major, but to a low-major like Idaho st where Hansen plays?
And then started playing as much as Hansen and shooting as much as Hansen?

Right now Talton is used on 18% of our possessions to Hansen's 25% and plays 18 minutes to Hansen's 37 - pull the numbers out and where do you get, even if you don't adjust for the level of competition?

On top of that, ppg is not the end all be all of determining a players worth. I've never seen Hansen play, but seeing as he is a 6'4 wing playing at Idaho state, I would be willing to bet a large amount of money that he would not be able to hold his own defensively in the PAC 12. And as we all know, defense is the first consideration in recruiting for Tad.


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Since you wanted to play in the land of hypotheticals i thought I'd join.

What if he transferred not to a mid-major, but to a low-major like Idaho st where Hansen plays?
And then started playing as much as Hansen and shooting as much as Hansen?

Right now Talton is used on 18% of our possessions to Hansen's 25% and plays 18 minutes to Hansen's 37 - pull the numbers out and where do you get, even if you don't adjust for the level of competition?
:popcorn:
 
If Talton transferred to a mid-major next year he wouldn't score at or close to 17 ppg (he's at 4 ppg this year). That's hardly a reach on my part to claim. And a guy who scores 17 ppg is less valuable then a below average PG and arguably would detract from our team??? :lol: Its not even worth arguing about this if you're going to be so unreasonable.

I have watched Hansen Play when he was in high school. I watched him for two years, and yes the kid can shoot. But he couldn't play defense, even with kids roughly around his height. His senior year, in a head to head matchup of Fossil Ridge vs Sterling, Talton destroyed Fossil and Hansen. One of the few losses Fossil had that year. The star on the floor that night was Talton, and it wasn't even close.

My daughter attended Fossil and a year behind Hansen. The big reason no one would touch him and the reason why he went juco is because he was terrible at academics. He was a block head who barely stayed eligible, and everyone knew it. Tad didn't miss on Hansen. He knew that keeping Hansen eligible would be a huge chore. Tad got it right in getting X Talton and all it took was one night in a head to head matchup to know it.
 
Crazy on how close we were to getting those guys. Think how much better our team would be with Hield, Wallace, Dotson or Caruso instead of Talton/Stalzer? Even one of those guys would have made a huge difference in guard depth.

This was pretty much my point. For some reason everyone else took this thread as if I was insulting there mother.
 
So, let me get this straight: The Buffs would be better if they signed really good guys who decided to sign elsewhere or barring that signed guys that were good Colorado HS players who are now "big fish in really small ponds"?

Got it! JRK is not comparing apples to oranges; more like apples to hammers! REALITY IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE, J-R-K.
 
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