Especially King. King is #2 in the conference in 3pt percentage. The only person hitting a higher percentage is ****ing Collier. Take your shots damnit.
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Colorado at USC post game thread
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
I'd sign up for another 5 years of Tad without thinking about it. Some people just like to complain. The last couple years he couldn't recruit a 3 point shooter. Now he can't recruit a dynamic point guard (have we forgotten The Mayor).
The fact is we are the University of Colorado. We don't have a basketball tradition and student support will always favor football. This means unless the perfect storm comes along, or the program shifts from a tournament run or game changing recruit, our basketball program will probably be missing a piece (a shooter/slasher/big guy/point guard).
I'm okay with being a perennial tournament team and every few years make a run in the top 25. I remember Life Before Tad.
The fact is we are the University of Colorado. We don't have a basketball tradition and student support will always favor football. This means unless the perfect storm comes along, or the program shifts from a tournament run or game changing recruit, our basketball program will probably be missing a piece (a shooter/slasher/big guy/point guard).
I'm okay with being a perennial tournament team and every few years make a run in the top 25. I remember Life Before Tad.
It is fun seeing some people in the "Hey Tad" thread posting for the first time since the last game we lost... Sure it's a coincidence though.
Tad and the coaching staff fooked up. The players share some blame, but the coach needs to sense when certain players need to sit. Dom was off and it was apparent he wasn't going to flip the switch at any point last night. He's fallen into that trap before, notably with regard to Fortune. The zone thing (on both sides) baffles me. We should at least practice offense against it fairly regularly knowing opponents are more than likely going to throw it at us at some point each game. Hell, maybe they do. And why not run it ourselves? Mix it up. Throw off our opponent's flow. Works against us, right? As for the timeout deal, doesn't any assistant coach have the power/confidence to approach Tad in those situations and say, "Hey coach, remember what you said about messing up and not using a TO in situations like these? Now's the time. Hint, hint. Wink, wink."
If I'm the coach, Dom comes off the bench against UCLA. Let's see what TA and XT can do and adjust (or not) accordingly.
We'll know where this team wants to go based on the UCLA game. Will they come out pissed off and fired up or will they fold? If I recall correctly, we tend to play fairly well after humiliation. I think we beat UCLA and ASU. We lose at Utah. The UA game SHOULD be a toss up, but their guards are absolutely going to destroy ours, so that may very well be a disappointing home loss.
Tad's still the man, though.
If I'm the coach, Dom comes off the bench against UCLA. Let's see what TA and XT can do and adjust (or not) accordingly.
We'll know where this team wants to go based on the UCLA game. Will they come out pissed off and fired up or will they fold? If I recall correctly, we tend to play fairly well after humiliation. I think we beat UCLA and ASU. We lose at Utah. The UA game SHOULD be a toss up, but their guards are absolutely going to destroy ours, so that may very well be a disappointing home loss.
Tad's still the man, though.
*thread ignore*
The zone thing is really frustrating because we were getting GREAT 3 point looks, but to my recollection only took 2 or so of them during USC's run. One by Yaz, one by Dom. Both missed. King and Fortune each passed up more than 2 or 3 as well. Usually in favor of a horrible drive.
When the zone is sitting down hard and daring you to make shots, that's what you want. Wide open 3 point shots by your best shooters. They got the shots. They didn't take them. Is that coaching or players? Or both.
When the zone is sitting down hard and daring you to make shots, that's what you want. Wide open 3 point shots by your best shooters. They got the shots. They didn't take them. Is that coaching or players? Or both.
buffalo1
Club Member
I'm so pissed at Tad right now. What is wrong with that coach?
(And no, I don't want him fired, he's better than what we've had for decades.)
But when the SAME COLLAPSE happens time and time again, questions must be asked....
TURNOVERS, sure the players make them, but what are the coaches doing to correct it. Tad is like a broken record after games saying "we need to limit turnovers", yet they don't.
OFFENSE vs ZONE, How many games has the opponent gone to zone and the CU offense goes inept?
STOPPING THE RUN, How many games does the opponent go on a big run and there is no timely timeout or significant change to stop that run?
I forgive a coach when bad things happen. But when the same scenario plays out game after game, something is WRONG
(And no, I don't want him fired, he's better than what we've had for decades.)
But when the SAME COLLAPSE happens time and time again, questions must be asked....
TURNOVERS, sure the players make them, but what are the coaches doing to correct it. Tad is like a broken record after games saying "we need to limit turnovers", yet they don't.
OFFENSE vs ZONE, How many games has the opponent gone to zone and the CU offense goes inept?
STOPPING THE RUN, How many games does the opponent go on a big run and there is no timely timeout or significant change to stop that run?
I forgive a coach when bad things happen. But when the same scenario plays out game after game, something is WRONG
From my favorite gambling man and a great basketball follow on twitter:
https://twitter.com/jgisland
"In line with previous research that has shown that some common beliefs such as the “hot-
hand” factor are not true in basketball (15,18,19), here using a Monte Carlo approach and
in the absence of other evidence and calculations, we have statistically demonstrated that
timeouts play a minor role in basketball. While both teams may use timeouts to restore
players’ physical and mental fatigue, our results reveal that timeouts should be considered
6 neither an advantage nor a detriment to the scoring dynamics in basketball."
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.1492v2.pdf
toohip
Active Member
This is getting more than frustrating, it's embarrassing. Too many turns overs. 20 at USC after leading by 15. 22 after squeaking out a win against Washington. I don't where they rank, but it's got to be near the bottom. Those cross-court passes give me a heart attack, and never turn into an advantage, especially against a zone defense. There are talented players like Fortune and King who have great skills, but put the ball at risk when they try to get fancy. Miller needs to find some hands! Boyle needs to teach the team how to take care of the ball, and not get fancy or take risks until there's a significant lead or a significant deficit to recover from. It's getting frustrating watching huge leads succumb to these turn-overs.
I'm moving this thread to the post game thread.
The only thing I see is being able to calm the team, make a lineup/tactical change, and chills the emotion of the crowd.
Useful, but not the magic decision a lot of people think it is.
scoob
Well-Known Member
Finally someone with the guts to address the elephant in the room.
Di you think Tad should call more timeouts?
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Definitely a frustrating/disheartening loss. I usually don't get all doom and gloom about basketball but that game was pretty eye opening.
I think the worst part is the opportunity we could throw away at what feels like any minute. The team hasn't even clicked on all cylinders this year, we've had games where a few guys look great while others disappear, and then games where those guys who disappeared stepped up, while new ones disappear. When we do click on some cylinders, we know we can play with anyone, and a multiple win tourney experience wouldn't surprise anyone. Our best player is a senior, our second best player is a relentless upper classman who locks down the paint, we have shooters, height, and our guards have shown glimpses of brilliance all year. Unfortunately, we have bad, untimely stretches every damn game where we give up easy buckets off turnovers and where our defense seems to struggle as our offense goes.
I have no idea what to expect game in and game out.
I think the worst part is the opportunity we could throw away at what feels like any minute. The team hasn't even clicked on all cylinders this year, we've had games where a few guys look great while others disappear, and then games where those guys who disappeared stepped up, while new ones disappear. When we do click on some cylinders, we know we can play with anyone, and a multiple win tourney experience wouldn't surprise anyone. Our best player is a senior, our second best player is a relentless upper classman who locks down the paint, we have shooters, height, and our guards have shown glimpses of brilliance all year. Unfortunately, we have bad, untimely stretches every damn game where we give up easy buckets off turnovers and where our defense seems to struggle as our offense goes.
I have no idea what to expect game in and game out.
BuffLuke80
Well-Known Member
Stop turning the ball over first and foremost. Take a damn shot if it's there. Also don't be scared to call a timeout.
I agree. Last night, where Tad made the mistake of not calling TO was that he could see that his team was not recognizing and attacking the zone per game plan. Needed to take a minute to re-enforce strategy.
Agreed a break just to yell "shoot the ****ing ball" would have been warranted, interesting to see the Stopping the run" approach to TO's not being statistically valid though. Or one of my favorite critiques about sub patterns and stopping the hot hand also being far less valid than i think it is.
BuffLuke80
Well-Known Member
I see too many teams do that **** with the zone these days. Passing the ball around the damn perimeter. Get inside and break it down, you'll get an open look.
It was a really good 3/4 of a game followed by a very very very bad 1/4.
Are you sure no one wants him fired? haha there is a ton of stupid out there.
Nobody worth thinking about
BuffLuke80
Well-Known Member
No he shouldn't be fired but his timeout use could improve. Ask Roy Williams.
buffalo1
Club Member
Agree.....but after so many repetitions of these 2nd half meltdowns the "really bad game" is becoming unacceptable!
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
I've been very critical of Tad, but of course don't want him fired. He has this program miles ahead of where it was (honestly, the only way to go was up.) I just wonder about accountability. Players are held accountable by the coaches in a variety of ways every day. But how are the coaches held accountable, in the middle of a season? It doesn't take much basketball IQ to see Tad's struggles late in games from a strategy perspective. We've seen 3-4 years of late-game scoring droughts being a fairly regular occurence, and some of that has to do with the opposing coach exploiting a weakness that we don't know how to respond to. Who is there to hold Tad's feet to the fire to address this stuff? The ineptitude against the zone is a glaring issue.
As for timeouts, sure, statistics are going to show that they have very little impact on the outcome. But the fact is, in the face of what we saw last night, you have to try something, even if it has little chance of working. More than likely, we still lose. USC got hot and we turned it over repeatedly. But to not even try something to break the momentum is inexcusable.
As for timeouts, sure, statistics are going to show that they have very little impact on the outcome. But the fact is, in the face of what we saw last night, you have to try something, even if it has little chance of working. More than likely, we still lose. USC got hot and we turned it over repeatedly. But to not even try something to break the momentum is inexcusable.
Do people even remember the p12 tourney champ team?
scoob
Well-Known Member
Attachments
scoob
Well-Known Member
Was he a good timeout caller?