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Conference Expansion - Big 12 is a tire fire

buffedup said:
The Pac 12 completely owns 2 of the 4 time zones in the continental United States in some of the fastest growing markets in the country. Expansion is not necessary. All of the other scenarios that people are repeating for the 100th time (I know no harm was meant, but hokiehead almost deserves a negative rep for this thread) have been thoroughly discussed.
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To say the Pac-12 owns 2 of the time zones is misleading to say the least. There are only 2 BCS schools in the Mtn time zone and the only reason 1 of them is a BCS school is because the Pac turned them into one by inviting them. Sure, technically Arizona is in the Mtn time zone but they're in Pacific time for 8 months out of the year. The bottom line is the Mtn time zone is a distant 4th in population and TV market share.
 
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CarolinaBuff said:
To say the Pac-12 owns 2 of the time zones is misleading to say the least. There are only 2 BCS schools in the Mtn time zone and 1 of them was elevated to BCS status by the Pac inviting them. Sure, technically Arizona is in the Mtn time zone but they're in Pacific time for 8 months out of the year. The bottom line is the Mtn time zone is a distant 4th in population and TV market share.
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It's not where the population is, but where it's going. Of the 11 states on this list, only Texas, Georgia, North and South Dakota are East of the Mountain Time Zone.

http://voices.yahoo.com/ten-fastest-growing-states-united-states-by-12372625.html
 
I think the Texas conversation is a non-starter. The 4 16 team super conference idea is about 3 years old now, and really, people are already looking beyond the 4 team playoff that would make that setup seem perfect. They'll be expanding to 8 playoff teams relatively soon. Plus conferences are still having trouble agreeing between each other, i.e. the SEC, their 8 conference games and their general d-baggery. Getting everything nice, tidy, and even is basically impossible at this point.

We'll have 5 power conferences of varying sizes, function, and strength until the NCAA implodes probably.
 
Colorado hatred for Texas is just part of the cultural fabric. Before residential air conditioning was cheap, Texans would swarm to Colorado for summer vacations to escape the summer heat. Many still do. Visit Lake City, CO for 4th of July to fully appreciate summer texans in the Rockies.

Texan investors are also big into Aspen, Vail, telluride, and various other primo mountain real estate. You can always tell the texans on a ski trip, because their equipment is new and color coordinated. Texans just don't care that the locals have no appreciation for putting up with excessive Texan wealth and pride.

Twin Lakes, CO used to host a Texas v Colorado tomato war as a primary summer tourist event. I don't think they still do it, though.

The b12 conferencepalooza episode and Longhorn Networks is just another example in a long succession of Texas ill will. You should check out the Darrell Scott recruitment thread, the legendary Rusty the Dog story, Drew Kelson hit on QB Joel Klatt, and 2001 B12CCG to really get a sense for the hatred at full bloom.

i assure you, however, that hatred for Nebraska runs much deeper thanks to the national championship voting of legendary douchebag Tom Osborn, and the whole "sal's dead, go big red" assault.

Honestly, having just written that, I would like to express my gratitude to Bohn, Benson, and DiStefano for distancing CU from both those obnoxious fan bases. (They also failed miserably at recovering from the Barnett era pseudo sex scandal.). When CU football is a winning and ranked program, the Folsom Field experience is unbelievably fantastic.
 
Bravo skiddy. One caveat -- Bohnhead lost some earned vibes when he agreed to schedule the fuskers in an ooc game (home and home, iirc).

I suspect very few of our fans want to visit (or revisit) Lincoln when there are so many other great locations to go to for a football game.
 
CarolinaBuff said:
To say the Pac-12 owns 2 of the time zones is misleading to say the least. There are only 2 BCS schools in the Mtn time zone and the only reason 1 of them is a BCS school is because the Pac turned them into one by inviting them. Sure, technically Arizona is in the Mtn time zone but they're in Pacific time for 8 months out of the year. The bottom line is the Mtn time zone is a distant 4th in population and TV market share.
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Considering you go on to basically show the facts behind my point, I'm not sure how that is misleading to say the least. But I'll recap your argument for you: Percentage of P5 schools in Pacific Time Zone that are in the Pac 12 - 100%. Percentage of P5 schools in the Mountain Time Zone that are in the Pac 12 - 100%.

The Pac 12 has absolutely no major college football competition in both regions. None.

The fact that the mountain time zone is the smallest in terms of overall population has absolutely no bearing on the accuracy of my statement that the Pac 12 is in complete control of 2 of the 4 time zones in the entire continental U.S.

Of course I could counter with telling you that the #1 most populated time zone (Eastern) has by far the lowest percentage of population that is even passably interested in major college football.
 
sackman said:
It's not where the population is, but where it's going. Of the 11 states on this list, only Texas, Georgia, North and South Dakota are East of the Mountain Time Zone.

http://voices.yahoo.com/ten-fastest-growing-states-united-states-by-12372625.html
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But how fast are these states growing? Not fast enough to catch up anytime soon. Plus, much of that growth out west is likely coming from fans of Big 10 schools moving out west so they're not going to be all that interested in watching Pac-12 football.
 
buffedup said:
Considering you go on to basically show the facts behind my point, I'm not sure how that is misleading to say the least. But I'll recap your argument for you: Percentage of P5 schools in Pacific Time Zone that are in the Pac 12 - 100%. Percentage of P5 schools in the Mountain Time Zone that are in the Pac 12 - 100%.

The Pac 12 has absolutely no major college football competition in both regions. None.

The fact that the mountain time zone is the smallest in terms of overall population has absolutely no bearing on the accuracy of my statement that the Pac 12 is in complete control of 2 of the 4 time zones in the entire continental U.S.

Of course I could counter with telling you that the #1 most populated time zone (Eastern) has by far the lowest percentage of population that is even passably interested in major college football.
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I would agree - if you discount Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, and eastern Tennessee
 
West Virginia should be in there too.
CarolinaBuff said:
I would agree - if you discount Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, and eastern Tennessee
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buffedup is correct that in the Boston-Washington (DC) corridor (where 1/6 of the country lives), nobody gives a **** about college football. Not that the states of Washington and California are exactly college-sports-centric.
 
The Canada idea is interesting although I don't think it would ever happen.

The fundamental skills of football are the same even with the big picture rule differences between the Canadian game and the US game. With having 3 downs instead of 4 and a bigger field the Canadian game has been ahead of the US game in terms of running what look like pass oriented spread offenses.

Canada has its own league for college football but from most appearances it looks like the level of play is probably comparable to our D2.

Toronto is the largest city in the country and the biggest TV market but I don't think the PAC would have an interest in the University of Toronto if the ever did want to step up to a BCS level of play. It doesn't make sense geographically.

If the PAC ever did add a Canadian school the first choice would almost have to be the University of British Columbia. Vancouver is a fast growing city that has a lot of former US residents. It is also very prosperous and in many ways similar to its close neighbor Seattle. It would make sense geographically and be the best cultural fit for the PAC.
 
I looked up populations and was mildly surprised that both BC and Alberta have overall populations below colorado, at 4.4 million and 3.6. Saskatchewan comes in at over 1 million. Those are fairly small populations, but when you consider the craze that having football teams competing in the US, I think the markets would be huge supporters of their teams compared to the amount we have in our states and the rest of the west.

It is farfetched, but I think it would be open to it. At least having one school in BC and alberta join
 
TimmyDUBs said:
I looked up populations and was mildly surprised that both BC and Alberta have overall populations below colorado, at 4.4 million and 3.6. Saskatchewan comes in at over 1 million. Those are fairly small populations, but when you consider the craze that having football teams competing in the US, I think the markets would be huge supporters of their teams compared to the amount we have in our states and the rest of the west.

It is farfetched, but I think it would be open to it. At least having one school in BC and alberta join
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The BC population is heavily concentrated close to Vancouver so the available fan base isn't far off from what CU has when you consider the distance to Grand Junction, CS/Pueblo, etc. You also wouldn't have the competing schools like CSU, AFA, etc. and the CFL certainly doesn't own the market like the Broncos or the Seahawks do.

I have no idea if the fans would support American College football but it would be interesting to investigate. Currently the dominant sport is NHL hockey but CFB ends before the NHL season gets intense.
 
hokiehead said:
West Virginia should be in there too.

buffedup is correct that in the Boston-Washington (DC) corridor (where 1/6 of the country lives), nobody gives a **** about college football. Not that the states of Washington and California are exactly college-sports-centric.
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I thought I saw the stat was 1/4 of the country lived within a 250 mile radius of NYC.
 
MtnBuff said:
The Canada idea is interesting although I don't think it would ever happen.

The fundamental skills of football are the same even with the big picture rule differences between the Canadian game and the US game. With having 3 downs instead of 4 and a bigger field the Canadian game has been ahead of the US game in terms of running what look like pass oriented spread offenses.

Canada has its own league for college football but from most appearances it looks like the level of play is probably comparable to our D2.

Toronto is the largest city in the country and the biggest TV market but I don't think the PAC would have an interest in the University of Toronto if the ever did want to step up to a BCS level of play. It doesn't make sense geographically.

If the PAC ever did add a Canadian school the first choice would almost have to be the University of British Columbia. Vancouver is a fast growing city that has a lot of former US residents. It is also very prosperous and in many ways similar to its close neighbor Seattle. It would make sense geographically and be the best cultural fit for the PAC.
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Canadian football is much harder than college football.

Ask Dan Hawkins.
 
now i'm worried. we're all lookin at same wiki page and all reporting it differently. I'm not very sober at the momenb, but follow

... As of the year 2000, the region supported 49.6 million people, about 17% of the U.S. population...
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17% is closer to 1/6 than either 1/4 or 1/8, right?

hokiehead said:
West Virginia should be in there too.

buffedup is correct that in the Boston-Washington (DC) corridor (where 1/6 of the country lives), nobody gives a **** about college football. Not that the states of Washington and California are exactly college-sports-centric.
Click to expand...

cubuffs85 said:
I thought I saw the stat was 1/4 of the country lived within a 250 mile radius of NYC.
Click to expand...

absinthe said:
1 in 8 live in cited the NE corridor.

vs

1/5 in CA+Tx

or

1/5 in the states that contain Pac12 schools
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You ****ing Texas strokers...

Should have been neg repped.

Y'all shut your filthy whore mouths.

Ain't no way, no how, no gun slinglin', horse totlin', cow warstlin, hillbilly **** tard from Texas gonna **** this up for the rest of us.

Texas is a death nail. Texas is akin to gambling in Colorado. The camels nose is under the tent. Let me explain....

The Casinos... they start out with limited stakes gambling. Slots and BJ. $5 max bet. What do you have now? The camel got its nose under the tent. Waited it out and... its now damn near all legal.

Texas gets it's nose under the tent... throw a bone or two to USC, UCLA.... UDub... for the northern connection....

Piece by piece...

UT did not destroy the SWC nor the BigXI in one year. They took their time to let their poison spread.

Get the nose under the tent when stupid people allow it.

That is all it takes.
 
BYU begging to get back in a conference

link other link

"I would love to be a member of that conference," Mendenhall told the Austin American-Statesman. "I think that would make a lot of sense."
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I missed this previously. if you check the link, begging is not a figure of speech. BYU doesn't count as a BCS team for ACC/SEC scheduling guidelines and that stacks the deck against BYU for the playoffs. As discussed here, Pac isn't likely to welcome them and no other P5 conference makes any sense geographically. XII doesn't seem to have issues with religious schools.

pros for XII: BYU has academics and name recognition/football history.
cons: geography. they're already screwed (great map at wiki page) w/ WVU hanging out there, adding another time zone in a(nother) non-contiguous state is going to give member schools some pause.
splitting revenue -- link discusses that XII members set pretty for next few years, but BYU might concede short term revenue for long term membership
scheduling around Sundays

I don't immediately see what, if any, impact this has on the Pac. My guess is that I'd expect the XII to go for it, eventually.
 
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hokiehead said:
I don't immediately see what, if any, impact this has on the Pac. My guess is that I'd expect the XII to go for it, eventually.
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unless, of course, they grab a Pac team's non-conf rival to make it an even 12. CSU would make sense only from a geographic POV, but so does New Mexico who would seem to bring more, so I doubt it. I saw Cincinnati thrown out elsewhere.
 
hokiehead said:
I missed this previously. if you check the link, begging is not a figure of speech. BYU doesn't count as a BCS team for ACC/SEC scheduling guidelines and that stacks the deck against BYU for the playoffs. As discussed here, Pac isn't likely to welcome them and no other P5 conference makes any sense geographically. XII doesn't seem to have issues with religious schools.

pros for XII: BYU has academics and name recognition/football history.
cons: geography. they're already screwed (great map at wiki page) w/ WVU hanging out there, adding another time zone in a(nother) non-contiguous state is going to give member schools some pause.
splitting revenue -- link discusses that XII members set pretty for next few years, but BYU might concede short term revenue for long term membership
scheduling around Sundays

I don't immediately see what, if any, impact this has on the Pac. My guess is that I'd expect the XII to go for it, eventually.
Click to expand...

BYU/Baylor has to become a regular conference matchup. So much holy war smack between the two fanbases. Please make this a thing.
 
aik said:
BYU/Baylor has to become a regular conference matchup. So much holy war smack between the two fanbases. Please make this a thing.
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Or maybe they can start a mini conference with BYewe, Bailer, Notre Dumb, and SMU.

They could hire referees from the University of Tehran.
 
props to HOO86 at techsideline for finding this.

SI article summarizes conference realignment over the last ten years and shares a number of back stories (I can't speak to the author's actual knowledge). I'm sure you guys recall "Don't mess with Texas football". Good back story on cloak and dagger stuff with Nebraska to B1G and Louisville to ACC.
 
Cincy to Big XII?

link

The University of Cincinnati is refusing to release emails, travel records and other public documents regarding the possibility of it gaining membership in the Big 12 Conference, which may consider expansion later this week.

The Enquirer asked for the documents, including UC President Santa Ono's travel records, in a Nov. 17 public records request. Two UC attorneys recently completed their review of the documents, usually a final step before public records are released.

But in an unusual move, UC's general counsel instead gave the documents to the Board of Trustees last week, said Kenya Faulkner, the university's top attorney.
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