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CSU notes...continued

Justin M Guerriero

Club Member
Club Member
Ran outta space on the last piece entitled "Fraternizing with the Enemy."

Key takeaways that I saw from Chad's responses:

1. Will the Rams' o-line be able to handle the Buffs' defense? I've talked a lot about the returning starters on the Buffs D...and I've also noted the returning starters on the Rams O-line. This could very well be the most even aspect about the game on Friday. The Buffaloes failed to record a sack in last year's showdown, and the Rams' mature offensive line seems capable of producing similar results. For that matter, both teams last year failed to record a sack. I think that'll change this year. Well, maybe not for the very fresh CSU D-line. Chad said it himself... But during the annual Press Luncheon on Tuesday at Folsom, Mac noted that CSU's offensive line is a tough group of guys that have good chemistry as a unit.

2. "Just because they are inexperienced doesn't mean they aren't ready." We shall see about that. Indeed we shall. On paper, things look to be pretty heavily favoring the Buffs. Chad said he thinks it's going to be 31-20 Buffs. But you know who isn't sold on the paper test? Coach Mac. At this Luncheon on Tuesday, LB Jimmie Gilbert spoke, followed by Sefo. Mac was in the room the whole time. I think he paid attention to what I asked the players, because a few things I brought up had to do with the Rams' inexperience. Mac made it a point to say this early on during his remarks (and I quote): "I keep hearing that CSU is a young team. But I'm not buying that they aren't a good football team."



You could interpret that a number of ways. It could just be the head coach acting like a head coach should act, and showing respect to the opposing team, despite all likelihoods and odds. Or it could be something more legitimate...Mac could be hinting at the rivalry x factor...does everything really go out the window at times during big rivalry games? take Pitt vs. West Virginia in 2007. Lowly Pitt squeaked out a 13-9 win over the extremely talented and highly favored Mountaineers. A bit of an extreme example I know...but still, anything can happen! And finally, perhaps the reason Mac takes (or appears to take) CSU pretty seriously is that he knows better than anyone that the Buffs, his Buffs, have been known to fail in the execution department...that basically equals ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. How the hell are we supposed to anticipate what's going to happen? On paper the Buffs are superior. They should win easily. All it comes down to is execution. If they give up big plays to Dalyn Dawkins, blow it in the red zone, and stall out offensively, they will lose. If they execute properly, the road to victory should be an easily traveled one.

3. This is more to do with the rivalry and both schools. Chad said that the Buffs would be a "good, not great, Mountain West team." Food for thought. I may have agreed with that statement more so in the 2013-2015 years, but again, I'll wait to see how CU performs this year and think back on that statement. We'll come back to that.

34-17 Buffs. That is all.

For more on campus life, sports, politics and the arts, visit cuindependent.com
 
Mac knows this job hinges on this game. This is one the Buffs should win going away. He has to keep the team focused on executing in this first week and getting by this dangerous game. Faltering on Friday short-circuits The Rise and casts and pall on the season, much less making a bowl game that much harder.

As for Chads comment..... the Buffs would be at the top of the MWC. The Pac-12 has been murders row these past few years, and the Buffs have been performing much better, even if they can't get over the hump. The MWC on the other hand, has been dog****.
 
1. "The gap is closing fast" was true, but now it looks like it is going the other direction fast.
2. Justin - the comment about CU having success in the early 90s makes me think there's a perception that CU had like 5 good years in its history from playing in back-to-back national title games thru Salaam winning the Heisman. Are young CU fans aware that the Buffs won the Big 12 championship in 2001 and finished that season ranked 9th in the country? That from 2001-2005, as much as we talk about the program being in decline those years, the Buffs won the Big 12 North 4 out of 5 seasons? That CU was consistently recruiting in the Top 25 during those years? It has been a horrible 10-year stretch since then. But it bothers me if there is a perception that CU being a nationally respected program was something occurred in a brief window more than 20 years ago.
 
Buffnik said:
1. "The gap is closing fast" was true, but now it looks like it is going the other direction fast.
2. Justin - the comment about CU having success in the early 90s makes me think there's a perception that CU had like 5 good years in its history from playing in back-to-back national title games thru Salaam winning the Heisman. Are young CU fans aware that the Buffs won the Big 12 championship in 2001 and finished that season ranked 9th in the country? That from 2001-2005, as much as we talk about the program being in decline those years, the Buffs won the Big 12 North 4 out of 5 seasons? That CU was consistently recruiting in the Top 25 during those years? It has been a horrible 10-year stretch since then. But it bothers me if there is a perception that CU being a nationally respected program was something occurred in a brief window more than 20 years ago.
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CU has won a conference championship every decade since the 40s. Time is running out for this decade.
 
Overheard some CSU fans at work talking about the game yesterday, and they were "absolutely shocked" CU could possibly be favored in the game, let alone being favored by 8 points. These are guys I consider "intelligent" football fans, but the delusion clearly extends to the entire fan base.
 
TSchekler said:
Overheard some CSU fans at work talking about the game yesterday, and they were "absolutely shocked" CU could possibly be favored in the game, let alone being favored by 8 points. These are guys I consider "intelligent" football fans, but the delusion clearly extends to the entire fan base.
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That probably stems from the fact that CU hasn't been good in a number of years. Neither has CSU, but that's besides the point. I understand P5 v G5 and CU should have every advantage going into this game, but the series has been relatively even lately. I'm not surprised CU is favored, they should be (especially since much of the lines are based on public perception), but I thought 8 points may be a little high. Again, this is based on the premise that this game is more of a pillow fight than anything. Until CU has some real success in the PAC (or CSU moves to the cellar in the MWC) I think CSU fans will feel like the team has a real chance in this game.
 
ramfan said:
That probably stems from the fact that CU hasn't been good in a number of years. Neither has CSU, but that's besides the point. I understand P5 v G5 and CU should have every advantage going into this game, but the series has been relatively even lately. I'm not surprised CU is favored, they should be (especially since much of the lines are based on public perception), but I thought 8 points may be a little high. Again, this is based on the premise that this game is more of a pillow fight than anything. Until CU has some real success in the PAC (or CSU moves to the cellar in the MWC) I think CSU fans will feel like the team has a real chance in this game.
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Dammit, why do you have to be so reasonable?? I do understand the perception of the CU program, but I just don't believe there should ever be a time where CSU fan legitimately thinks they should be favored. The 8 point margin (opening at 7 or 7 1/2) is obviously debatable, but I think it shows that the odds makers see an obvious decline in the CSU program this season due to loss of talent and experience, as well as a better CU team due to incoming talent and vastly more experience.

IMO, most CSU fans (I won't say all because you seem to be one of the objective ones) simply don't pay enough attention to the two programs to know these differences, and therefore, believe it's going to be the same close game simply because it was last year. In reality, the 6 games CU has won the past decade against CSU, have come at an average margin of victory of 12.6 pts/game (including 2 games won by 21 points), while the 4 that CSU has won in the same time frame have been by 7.2 pts/game. So, when CSU is the "better team", it's still a pretty close game on average. When CU is the "better team", it's at least a two score game on average, which is what I expect it to be this year at the very least.
 
ramfan said:
That probably stems from the fact that CU hasn't been good in a number of years. Neither has CSU, but that's besides the point. I understand P5 v G5 and CU should have every advantage going into this game, but the series has been relatively even lately. I'm not surprised CU is favored, they should be (especially since much of the lines are based on public perception), but I thought 8 points may be a little high. Again, this is based on the premise that this game is more of a pillow fight than anything. Until CU has some real success in the PAC (or CSU moves to the cellar in the MWC) I think CSU fans will feel like the team has a real chance in this game.
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Didn't you used to be a dick, or was that someone else? I thought C-Squared was the only alright CSU fan that visited this board.

You mentioned that CSU hasn't been good in a number of years. It's my impression that the last few years have been some of CSU's best, outside a brief spell during the Sonny era. Am I incorrect in thinking that?
 
Uncle Ken said:
Didn't you used to be a dick, or was that someone else? I thought C-Squared was the only alright CSU fan that visited this board.

You mentioned that CSU hasn't been good in a number of years. It's my impression that the last few years have been some of CSU's best, outside a brief spell during the Sonny era. Am I incorrect in thinking that?
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He's been reasonable for as long as I can remember.
 
Buffnik said:
That from 2001-2005, as much as we talk about the program being in decline those years, the Buffs won the Big 12 North 4 out of 5 seasons?
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How would the Buffs fare today in the old B12 North?

The 2005 team that won the B12 North and lost 70-3 to Texas may have struggled to get two wins in today's P12.

Not disagreeing with your post (I appreciate everyone being reminded that the Buffs were not a one hit wonder), just pointing out how much more difficult it is now to get back to that level of respectability. We beat some pretty crappy teams that season to win the North and squeaked by CSU 31-28 in the "showdown".
 
scoob said:
How would the Buffs fare today in the old B12 North?

The 2005 team that won the B12 North and lost 70-3 to Texas may have struggled to get two wins in today's P12.

Not disagreeing with your post (I appreciate everyone being reminded that the Buffs were not a one hit wonder), just pointing out how much more difficult it is now to get back to that level of respectability. We beat some pretty crappy teams that season to win the North and squeaked by CSU 31-28 in the "showdown".
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70-3 with a team that was at a rough patch in the season, lost its QB, and going against the Vince Young national title team that was peaking. It shouldn't have been that bad, but I don't think there were more than about 10 teams at that point in the season that could have played UT within 3 scores. The 2005 CU team would have gone around .500 against a Pac-10 schedule that year. Pac-10 was pretty top heavy that year, too.
 
Buffnik said:
70-3 with a team that was at a rough patch in the season, lost its QB, and going against the Vince Young national title team that was peaking. It shouldn't have been that bad, but I don't think there were more than about 10 teams at that point in the season that could have played UT within 3 scores. The 2005 CU team would have gone around .500 against a Pac-10 schedule that year. Pac-10 was pretty top heavy that year, too.
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Well, that wasn't my point exactly. I probably didn't make it very well and I certainly don't want to be a buzzkill the day before the opener by trying harder anyway.

Go Buffs! The Rise is real!
 
Uncle Ken said:
Didn't you used to be a dick, or was that someone else? I thought C-Squared was the only alright CSU fan that visited this board.

You mentioned that CSU hasn't been good in a number of years. It's my impression that the last few years have been some of CSU's best, outside a brief spell during the Sonny era. Am I incorrect in thinking that?
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No, it's not me. I'm a huge CSU fan so there is always some bias there - I really hope they can pull it off tomorrow - but I try to stay as objective as I can. I don't post much here outside of this game, both before and afterwards, but I lurk frequently during the season as well as during basketball season.

Yes, CSU has been to three consecutive bowl games, but since it's the MWC that doesn't mean too much. I wouldn't claim that any of those bowl teams were 'good', they just weren't terrible, which represents progress but not much else. I have no doubt that CU would have done the same thing in the MWC, so I'm trying to account for all of that when I say neither team has been stellar. Maybe if Sparkles hadn't left things would be different now, who knows. Certainly the best years/teams were under Sonny in the late 90s/early 2000s.
 
Most all CSU fans that I know are good people. There is just something a little "off" with pretty much all of them. I can't really put my finger on it.
 
I would agree most are normal but this game week does something to most of them. I avoid most of them this week because when the conversation turns to the game they become irrational. Their is such a deep complex associated with them and their position to CU.
 
Buffalo Brad said:
I would agree most are normal but this game week does something to most of them. I avoid most of them this week because when the conversation turns to the game they become irrational. Their is such a deep complex associated with them and their position to CU.
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I completely agree, and I find CSU fans as a whole, not the school or program, rather annoying when discussing sports.

I do wonder though if the way we view CSU fans is how Nebraska fans viewed us when Mac started to resurrect the program in the 80s. Granted, they're two different scenarios, because CSU fans have a chip on their shoulder over the perceived superiority of CU as a school in addition to athletics. As much as I hate to admit it, NU's athletic program is historically better than CU's, but their school is definitely not considered superior by any measure.
 
dyemeduke said:
I completely agree, and I find CSU fans as a whole, not the school or program, rather annoying when discussing sports.

I do wonder though if the way we view CSU fans is how Nebraska fans viewed us when Mac started to resurrect the program in the 80s. Granted, they're two different scenarios, because CSU fans have a chip on their shoulder over the perceived superiority of CU as a school in addition to athletics. As much as I hate to admit it, NU's athletic program is historically better than CU's, but their school is definitely not considered superior by any measure.
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I used to wonder about that as well. But most CU fans root for CSU the rest of the year, and seem a little perplexed by the venom spewed toward us from Fort Collins. nebraska never rooted for CU, as far as I could tell. They didn't view the rivalry in the same way did, certainly, but there was no lack of hate on their side.
 
CSU is pretty typical of little brother Agg "state U" schools in every state. There's always that chip on the shoulder inferiority complex, belief that the state's "flagship U" is for yuppy arrogance and doesn't really represent the state, and the fact that "flagship U" is "state U's" measuring stick but "flagship U" measures itself against other "flagship Us" it sees as its true peers. Within CO, that is exacerbated by an order of magnitude since CSU competes in a lower tier of D1 football.
 
cubuffs11 said:
C-Squared and ramfan are good people.
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They are good people and dedicated fans. Knowledgeable about their team and their conference.

The problem for CSU is that they don't have enough fans like those two and they have a bigger lack of casual fans.

CU has the same problems but to a much lesser extent. College football isn't a big part of the culture of the state. Every corner of the state you will find Broncos emblems. Bars buy Direct TV, Broncos radio broadcast are available all over.

In other states, including many with NFL teams the favored college teams games are an event, Colorado doesn't do that. College football is a niche product here and CSU is a distant second in that market. CU grads tend to ignore CU football, CSU fans do the same in bigger numbers.

This creates huge frustration for those of us who are the fans but it isn't likely to change anytime soon.

The result is that CSU, despite all their positives simply doesn't offer enough the fan interest to justify P5 status from a financial sense. CU does but will continue to struggle to keep up with those schools who have the undivided support of the majority of their market.
 
Buffnik said:
CSU is pretty typical of little brother Agg "state U" schools in every state. There's always that chip on the shoulder inferiority complex, belief that the state's "flagship U" is for yuppy arrogance and doesn't really represent the state, and the fact that "flagship U" is "state U's" measuring stick but "flagship U" measures itself against other "flagship Us" it sees as its true peers. Within CO, that is exacerbated by an order of magnitude since CSU competes in a lower tier of D1 football.
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What is fascinating to me is how WYO message boards around the border war game frame CSU as the hippie dope smoking crocs wearing microbrew drinking privileged dooshbags. In return CSU blasts WYO as the sheep ****ing homophobic redneck hayseeds.


It's quite possible that CSU fans are merely a middleman between CU and Wyoming with zero original thought or identity of their own.
 
Still surprised we won that 2013 game. Still pissed we couldn't adjust to their run game in 2014 but that was pre Leavitt.
 
Buffnik said:
70-3 with a team that was at a rough patch in the season, lost its QB, and going against the Vince Young national title team that was peaking. It shouldn't have been that bad, but I don't think there were more than about 10 teams at that point in the season that could have played UT within 3 scores. The 2005 CU team would have gone around .500 against a Pac-10 schedule that year. Pac-10 was pretty top heavy that year, too.
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That 70-3 game was definitely an outlier, but I think a case could be made that Gary's post 2001 teams were pretty similar to the Buffs circa 2015. We really were the Queen of the Pigs back then!

Here's how they fared:

2002:
vs CSU L 14-19
vs USC L 3-40
at UCLA W 31-17
at Okla L 11-27
CCG L 7-29 CCG

2003
vs WSU L 26-47
at FL St L 7-47
at KSU L 20-49
vs Okla L 20-34

2004
Vs Ok St L14-42
Vs UT L 7-31
Vs Okla L 3-42 CCG

2005
at Miami L 3-23
at Texas L 17-42
at Nubs L 3-30
vs Texas L 3-70 CCG

Might note that we went 3-1 vs CSU but those 3 wins were by 7, 3, and 3.
 
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