CSU Starting QB for 2010 RMS - Pete Thomas

[buffs04]

Ah yes. I forgot our coaches were master talent evaluators and that what the rest of the country thinks about a player is irrelevant.

 

[SD Buff]

Ah yes. I forgot our coaches were master talent evaluators and that what the rest of the country thinks about a player is irrelevant.

Rest of the country?

 

[buffs04]

A few years ago, they found a hidden gem in Rodney Stewart, so therefore every single 2 or 3 star player with offers from Western Hawaii Tech and Middle Arkansas State that comes to CU will dominate the landscape.

 

[aik]

What Sackman said. If his last name was Smith, no would have cared one lick where he went to school.

Pretty sure Elway is still an ASU student, just not playing football anymore.

I was somewhat serious and somewhat not, going with our recent trend of "Anyone but ______ (Cox/B Jax/Little Hawk)." I believe Elway II was told he wouldn't win the starting job and then decided there are other things besides football, and being John's kid surrounded by teh hot hot womens at ASU wasn't such a bad thing as just a student either.

 

[Daaah]

ASU has nothing on anyone academically.....

Slut ratio is pretty high though.

 

[CUwhit21]

My primary point still stands. Hawkins has not brought in a highly-rated QB in five recruiting classes.

Before anyone says that stars with QB's don't matter... I beg to differ. Most all elite QB's in the past 5-7 years have been 4 or 5 stars. There are a few exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

EDIT: Not sure where you are getting this transfer from. Rivals and Scout both have him listed as a 2010 commit.

I'm not going to argue with that point that Hawkins has not brought in a highly rated QB. That much is obvious.

Matt Ryan - 3 stars
Joe Flacco - 3 stars
Chase Daniel - 3 stars
Zac Robinson - 3 stars
Matt Grothe - 3 stars
Todd Reesing - 3 stars
Nate Davis - 3 stars
Kellen Moore - 3 stars
Sam Bradford - 3 stars
Colt McCoy - 3 stars
Jeremiah Masoli - Unrated

And even comparing Pete Thomas's senior stats against Nick Hirschman's:

Thomas - 2,392 yards, 64% completion, 24 TDs, 6 interceptions

Hirschman - 2,887 yards, 68% completion, 34 TDs, 3 interceptions

Just curious.. would you prefer our coaches to offer Pete Thomas because he has offers from Northwestern & ASU and is higher rated by a recruiting web site?

 

[somebody]

I'm sure hirschman would have been 4* if he didn't commit to CU do early.

By this logic, Thomas should be downgraded to 3 or even 2 stars?

...look, Hawk has struggled on the field, and this year, the field performance and questions about him and his staff are effecting recruiting. However, if you're saying Pete Thomas' transfer means they're beating Hawk in recruiting...you're just wrong. CSU is not beating us in recruiting. They got a TRANSFER...congrats to them. We also got a four star transfer WR (Clemons) and perhaps a few more from Michigan.

Yes, Hawk is struggling mightily and it's frustrating. Don't lose perspective though - CSU is not doing better than us in anything. Even though they beat us last year, they did not have a better overall season.

Thomas is a class of 2010 kid, Scout shows current recruiting offers from 7 schools. That said, CSU still trails us by a hefty margin in recruiting, not that I'm so proud of being in the 60s (there are 66 BCS schools).

 

[SD Buff]

Thomas is a class of 2010 kid, Scout shows current recruiting offers from 7 schools.

As usual, Scout is FOS. If you read his updates on the Scout site, he didn't have those offers.

But here is a quote from a Rivals article the day before he committed to ASU.

For now Thomas is favoring the four schools that have offers on the table and are actively recruiting him — Arizona State, Colorado State, Harvard and Northwestern. Colorado State and Harvard were his two recent offers.

 

[dyemeduke]

alright - sorry, I thought earlier in the thread it was stated that the kid was a transfer, but apparently he is a current HS senior. My bad.

Still though - I still stand by my statement that CSU is not outrecruiting us or even doing better than us on the field. They beat us consistently in a game that I wish we would discontinue...but that's a completely different argument.

CSU is a decent school with a competitive athletic department, but they are not CU, nor will they ever be on par with CU in most things. In a few areas, (MFA, agricultural studies, etc.) they are actually better, but in the vast majority of areas, CU is superior.

One four star recruit does not make them better than us. I understand Hawk is struggling, but realistically, he is still doing better than CSU...seriously, that's how bad CSU sucked to close the season. One recruit...that's it...and he's not that high of a recruit. This is one instance where star-gazing is leading people off - Thomas and Hirschmann look like solid QBs, but Thomas is by no means much better at this point. Time will only tell who's better.

 

[buffs04]

Bradford, McCoy and Kellen Moore were both rated 4* by Scout. Anyway, I will quote myself from an old post:

Vince Young - 5 star 2002
Troy Smith - 4 star 2002
John David Booty - 5 star 2003
Chris Leak - 5 star 2003
JaMarcus Russell - 5 star 2003
Brian Brohm - 4 star 2004
Graham Harrell - 4 star 2004
Mark Sanchez - 5 star 2005
Colt McCoy - 4 star 2005
Colt Brennan - 4 star 2005
Tim Tebow - 5 star 2006
Jevan Snead - 4 star 2006
Josh Freeman - 4 star 2006
Sam Bradford - 4 star 2006
Jimmy Clausen - 5 star 2007 started slow, great year this year, going to be top 5 or top 10 pick
Ryan Mallett - 5 star 2007 issues at first, turned into a great QB
Kellen Moore - 4 star 2007
2008 - too early to judge, although Griffin looks great and I bet Pryor will come around. Blaine Gabbert is no slouch either and Landry Jones is starting for Oklahoma.

That is just guys who I would consider to have been highly successful. There are many more that are still heads and shoulders above anything CU has had here in many, many years that I didn't list.

You can downplay recruiting ratings all you want - I have a feeling a lot of people are more inclined to do it because our last two classes have been bad - but for QBs in particular, there is a correlation with success.

You can find a handful of 3* QBs that have been highly successful. You can also find 30 bad ones for every good one.

The majority of QBs who have done well at big time NC-contending programs since 2002, which is how far I went back here, have been 4 or 5 star players.

 

[buffs04]

By the way, I find the assertion that a player that was offered by Boston College and Arizona State somehow isn't good enough for Dan Hawkins and his staff to be... hilarious? Or the fact that we are bringing in one drop-back quarterback means we can't bring in a second.

This team doesn't even hit the scholly limit or come close. There is 0 reason why they can't bring in 3 qb's in one class.

You can spin it all you want. Fact is, QB recruiting under Dan Hawkins gets a big, fat F. We have had the worst QB play in conference I would say 3 out of the 4 years he has coached here. The second half of 2009 is the first time in his four years coaching here that we had a quarterback playing that looked like he even belonged on the field.

Quality depth is always a good thing and we can predict how successful Hirschman will be all we want, but bringing in more top quality players gives you more of a likelihood of any of them being any good. Look at our RB situation. We thought we were overflowing with depth. Now we have... 1 of them? Our OL was supposed to be some kind of dominant strength. They have been way below average the last two years. Sitting here and proclaiming that CU "didn't need" to bring in a blue-chip type guy at QB is asinine.

We have 10 commits. 10. But we didn't need a 4 star QB that we probably could have got to come here? Right. Once again we will recruit 17-18 players, with the last handful of them being late signers who are ecstatic to simply get a BCS or even D1 offer. We will hand out scholarships to walk-on players and probably START them so we can pretend we are actually fielding a complete team. But a highly rated QB? Nothx, he doesn't have a lunchpail.

 

[CUwhit21]

Bradford, McCoy and Kellen Moore were both rated 4* by Scout. Anyway, I will quote myself from an old post:



That is just guys who I would consider to have been highly successful. There are many more that are still heads and shoulders above anything CU has had here in many, many years that I didn't list.

You can downplay recruiting ratings all you want - I have a feeling a lot of people are more inclined to do it because our last two classes have been bad - but for QBs in particular, there is a correlation with success.

You can find a handful of 3* QBs that have been highly successful. You can also find 30 bad ones for every good one.

The majority of QBs who have done well at big time NC-contending programs since 2002, which is how far I went back here, have been 4 or 5 star players.

Colt Brennan was originally a 2 star recruit out of Mater Dei. He walked on at CU.

http://nevada.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=59574

Once he got kicked off the team, he went back to Saddleback (JC in Orange County, CA) and was rated a 4 star JUCO QB by Scout.

For every Tim Tebow, there is a Kyle Wright, Ben Olson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Perilloux or Anthony Morelli. I can sit here and list 5-10 4 or 5 star QBs that did next to nothing in every class.

Besides, I wasn't arguing the fact that there are 4 or 5 star QBs in the last 5 years that would've been better then what we've had at CU during the timeframe (Nice attempt to put words in my mouth). You said "most all elite QB's in the past 5-7 years have been 4 or 5 stars." Well, based on the list I provided, I see plenty of elite QBs in the past 5-7 years that weren't 4 or 5 stars per Rivals.

 

[dyemeduke]

Yes...I agree that Hawk gets an F for QB recruiting, as he has targeted some great players, but failed to get them ultimitely into CU. Wynn and Jones come to mind immediately. He should have cast a bigger net rather than focusing on just a select few QBs, but I guess I can somewhat understand. Hawk is actually a good recruiter, so when things looked promising on the field for him, he was able to be a little selective with his offers. Now, yes, we have negatives everywhere, and he's scrounging around for kids to commit to CU. Still though, Hirschmann committed early on, and I think with Nick on solidly on board, Hawk decided he was done with pocket passers. I can understand that decision - we have other needs too, so why not just take one more QB but with running ability?

Depth is important as you said - at all positions. I disagree with bringing in three QBs this cycle due to other needs, but to each their own I guess. I'm really not trying to come off as a Hawk supporter, but I guess I sort of am in this regard. If I was the HC of a struggling program, and I had a good pocket QB in the bag, I'd go after other positions of need. I wouldn't just offer a player, because other programs have offered him. I have to do my own evaluation and decisions. Sure, my evaluations and decisions may suck, but I have to do my own work. I can't trust recruiting sites or other coaching staffs; I either succeed or fail through my own work.

 

[Junction]

Colt Brennan was originally a 2 star recruit out of Mater Dei. He walked on at CU.

http://nevada.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=59574

Once he got kicked off the team, he went back to Saddleback (JC in Orange County, CA) and was rated a 4 star JUCO QB by Scout.

For every Tim Tebow, there is a Kyle Wright, Ben Olson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Perilloux or Anthony Morelli. I can sit here and list 5-10 4 or 5 star QBs that did next to nothing in every class.

Besides, I wasn't arguing the fact that there are 4 or 5 star QBs in the last 5 years that would've been better then what we've had at CU during the timeframe (Nice attempt to put words in my mouth). You said \"most all elite QB's in the past 5-7 years have been 4 or 5 stars.\" Well, based on the list I provided, I see plenty of elite QBs in the past 5-7 years that weren't 4 or 5 stars per Rivals.

So if I'm following this right, you're saying that not all elite QBs are 4 or 5 star recruits. But 04 put out a pretty impressive list of ones that were. And you make a pretty good case that not all 4 or 5 star QBs are going to be elite QBs....

Which tells me that programs better be recruiting those 4 and 5 star QBs HARD every year, and landing one pretty frequently. Because if you want an elite QB, they will probably come out of that group (although not always), but not all the guys you get out of that group will ever become elite...

 

[SINKRATZ]

I'm looking forward to bumping this thread when Thomas de-commits from the lambs and winds up elsewhere.

 

[CUwhit21]

So if I'm following this right, you're saying that not all elite QBs are 4 or 5 star recruits. But 04 put out a pretty impressive list of ones that were. And you make a pretty good case that not all 4 or 5 star QBs are going to be elite QBs....

Which tells me that programs better be recruiting those 4 and 5 star QBs HARD every year, and landing one pretty frequently. Because if you want an elite QB, they will probably come out of that group (although not always), but not all the guys you get out of that group will ever become elite...

Yep, that's pretty much how it is.

 

[96 Buff]

I'm looking forward to bumping this thread when Thomas [STRIKE]de-commits from the lambs[/STRIKE] gets caught doing coke off a sheep's ass and winds up [STRIKE]elsewhere[/STRIKE] in jail.

Fixed.

 

[buffs04]

My point, which is what Junction is getting at I believe, is that a higher percentage of 4 or 5 star prospects are likely to be top-level quarterbacks than guys who are lesser-rated. Unfortunately, not all of even 5 star players pan out.

I would like to see Hawkins bring in a QB that is consistently rated as a top player at his position by all or most publications. It hasn't happened yet.

I have high hopes for Hirschman but I feel it is best to get as much talent at QB as possible because even the highest rated players aren't necessarily probable to be good.

Only time will tell. I could be completely off. But this guy just screams 'missed opportunity' to me. His comments indicate he would have come to school here if he got an offer. I don't understand why he didn't get an offer... we are going to struggle/fail to fill our recruiting class this year.

 

[CsquaredCC]

I'm looking forward to bumping this thread when Thomas de-commits from the lambs and winds up elsewhere.

If he wasn't already preparing to enroll for spring classes I definitely would have those concerns. Fortunately, he is scheduled to be on campus and relocated in Fort Collins in just over two weeks. Given the amount of turmoil Thomas experienced with his recruitment and the ASU coaching staff, I think it is a near certainty that he signs his LOI and suits up at CSU in time for spring ball.

 

[White_Rabbit]

If we lose to the Rams who are starting a true freshman QB I might want Hawk fired immediately following the game.

 

[MtnBuff]

If we lose to the Rams who are starting a true freshman QB I might want Hawk fired immediately following the game.

Let's try halftime, but of course I felt the same way this year. CSU has some great effort guys and they find some true hidden talents. This said there is no reason in the world that just looking at overall talent CSU should be able to compete with the Buffs. At the same time we could have said the same thing about Toledo, Montana State, Eastern Washington, etc. etc. If the problem isn't the players then it can only go one direction, up to the head coach.

Again coming into next years game CSU will have a new starting QB, Thomas or somebody else who has not had significant D1 starting experience. They are losing virtually all of their O-line which was supposed to be the strength of their team last year but which fell apart (injuries were part of it but not all of it) against MWC competition last year. They lose RBs, WRs, and a number of D players. On paper this should not even be close.

What they do have in their favor is the same thing they have had the past four years, a CU coach who consistently fails to get his teams mentally and emotionally prepared to play football. Unless Hawk gets a brain transplant and takes a completely different approach we have to worry about getting beat by the Rams, again, even though they have very few players who honestly would compete for our two-deep based on talent.

 

[Idot Buff]

If we lose to the Rams who are starting a true freshman QB I might want Hawk fired immediately following the game.

I want him fired immediately...as in, now.....

 

[somebody]

If he wasn't already preparing to enroll for spring classes I definitely would have those concerns. Fortunately, he is scheduled to be on campus and relocated in Fort Collins in just over two weeks. Given the amount of turmoil Thomas experienced with his recruitment and the ASU coaching staff, I think it is a near certainty that he signs his LOI and suits up at CSU in time for spring ball.

How exactly do you prepare to enroll? Memorize your name?