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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

#1 pick said:
I considered BYU to be the biggest coup for the Big XII. They are the only school added by the Big XII with a national brand and had their own deal with ESPN and they delivered ratings. I do believe they helped a ton. Who do you think it was for the Big XII that was the coup of their recent expansion?
Click to expand...
I know/understand why you consider BYU as the home run hit...Houston is the gem...TT, TCU & baylor combined capture only so much of the TX market...I don't think I'm reaching when I say there aren't a lot of BYU fans in TX.
On the other hand I'll be tuning in to watch BYU vs baylor.
 
Always BUFF said:
I know/understand why you consider BYU as the home run hit...Houston is the gem...TT, TCU & baylor combined capture only so much of the TX market...I don't think I'm reaching when I say there aren't a lot of BYU fans in TX.
On the other hand I'll be tuning in to watch BYU vs baylor.
Click to expand...
I live in Houston. A UofH satellite is minutes away from my house. Let me tell you something. It has potential but this is still A&M and Texas country. Houston got a lot of local support for Basketball but until Houston is officially playing big boy football, it will always be 3rd in Houston.

BYU fans are everywhere cause of their religion. I am from GA. I know a lot of BYU fans and graduates. Only met Baylor, TT, and Big XII grads when I moved to Houston. Even then, I met and befriended BYU grads as they have a pipeline in Houston, TX too.

BYU is definitely the coup. Saying Houston is a gem is just wishful thinking and I literally live here and got in laws who are UofH grads.

Some of you guys are looking at TV markets and while they were big for Big XII recent expansion outside of BYU, the West Coast does not have many big media markets and almost all of them are already in the Pac-12. What you have is time slot and the ability to deliver in that time slot. That's your biggest advantage as a conference and that's the biggest need for any of these networks but you are limited. You can't deliver in the 4 to 7 slots like the Big XII or ACC much less the B1G and SEC and you aren't even in the 1 slot at all.

You are limited to that 10pm est slot which many of you hate but that's the only slot these networks trust you in.

To me, proper planning is key. Going to 16 should be obvious. Time zones should be the #1 focus. All in as a conference like Big XII should be a priority.
 
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#1 pick said:
I live in Houston. A UofH satellite is minutes away from my house. Let me tell you something. It has potential but this is still A&M and Texas country. Houston got a lot of local support for Basketball but until Houston is officially playing big boy football, it will always be 3rd in Houston.

BYU fans are everywhere cause of their religion. I am from GA. I know a lot of BYU fans and graduates. Only met Baylor, TT, and Big XII grads when I moved to Houston. Even then, I met and befriended BYU grads as they have a pipeline in Houston, TX too.

BYU is definitely the coup. Saying Houston is a gem is just wishful thinking and I literally live here and got in laws who are UofH grads.

Some of you guys are looking at TV markets and while they were big for Big XII recent expansion outside of BYU, the West Coast does not have many big media markets and almost all of them are already in the Pac-12. What you have is time slot and the ability to deliver in that time slot. That's your biggest advantage as a conference and that's the biggest need for any of these networks but you are limited. You can't deliver in the 4 to 7 slots like the Big XII or ACC much less the B1G and SEC and you aren't even in the 1 slot at all.

You are limited to that 10pm est slot which many of you hate but that's the only slot these networks trust you in.

To me, proper planning is key. Going to 16 should be obvious. Time zones should be the #1 focus. All in as a conference like Big XII should be a priority.
Click to expand...
All within reason...expansion has thrown away reason begs the questions can BYU recruit TX.? & why should the P12 look to expand East of the current foot print? Losing the LA market becomes the linch pin...SDSU and the like can't stand alone it'll require the combination of schools to offset market loss.
Agree?
 
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#1 pick said:
I live in Houston. A UofH satellite is minutes away from my house. Let me tell you something. It has potential but this is still A&M and Texas country. Houston got a lot of local support for Basketball but until Houston is officially playing big boy football, it will always be 3rd in Houston.

BYU fans are everywhere cause of their religion. I am from GA. I know a lot of BYU fans and graduates. Only met Baylor, TT, and Big XII grads when I moved to Houston. Even then, I met and befriended BYU grads as they have a pipeline in Houston, TX too.

BYU is definitely the coup. Saying Houston is a gem is just wishful thinking and I literally live here and got in laws who are UofH grads.

Some of you guys are looking at TV markets and while they were big for Big XII recent expansion outside of BYU, the West Coast does not have many big media markets and almost all of them are already in the Pac-12. What you have is time slot and the ability to deliver in that time slot. That's your biggest advantage as a conference and that's the biggest need for any of these networks but you are limited. You can't deliver in the 4 to 7 slots like the Big XII or ACC much less the B1G and SEC and you aren't even in the 1 slot at all.

You are limited to that 10pm est slot which many of you hate but that's the only slot these networks trust you in.

To me, proper planning is key. Going to 16 should be obvious. Time zones should be the #1 focus. All in as a conference like Big XII should be a priority.
Click to expand...
here's some stuff you may be overlooking with byu.

the pac and big would never, ever offer a place for byu. this is a cold hard fact. the b12 wouldn't have done it either had they not been desperate after losing ut and ou, neither of which wanted anything to do with byu.

as for the necessity of going to 16 now for the content slate, that's maybe true, but i am not sure.

say you are oregon, uw, CU, utah, cal, and stanford. these are all upper level academic and research universities who also want to compete at the highest level in college sports. none of the above got a chance to jump to the big now. all of the above would take a big offer in a heartbeat. are they better off doing the best deal they can do now, collectively, and then muscling in to the next round of expansion (the big will get bigger ultimately)? or do they dilute their earnings now by adding schools that they are not aligned with?

i dunno...
 
#1 pick said:
I live in Houston. A UofH satellite is minutes away from my house. Let me tell you something. It has potential but this is still A&M and Texas country. Houston got a lot of local support for Basketball but until Houston is officially playing big boy football, it will always be 3rd in Houston.

BYU fans are everywhere cause of their religion. I am from GA. I know a lot of BYU fans and graduates. Only met Baylor, TT, and Big XII grads when I moved to Houston. Even then, I met and befriended BYU grads as they have a pipeline in Houston, TX too.

BYU is definitely the coup. Saying Houston is a gem is just wishful thinking and I literally live here and got in laws who are UofH grads.

Some of you guys are looking at TV markets and while they were big for Big XII recent expansion outside of BYU, the West Coast does not have many big media markets and almost all of them are already in the Pac-12. What you have is time slot and the ability to deliver in that time slot. That's your biggest advantage as a conference and that's the biggest need for any of these networks but you are limited. You can't deliver in the 4 to 7 slots like the Big XII or ACC much less the B1G and SEC and you aren't even in the 1 slot at all.

You are limited to that 10pm est slot which many of you hate but that's the only slot these networks trust you in.

To me, proper planning is key. Going to 16 should be obvious. Time zones should be the #1 focus. All in as a conference like Big XII should be a priority.
Click to expand...
I live 90 miles from Houston (the Katy triangle)...I don't believe there's been a Buff team that could've beat Houston in football in the last 5 yrs and Holgersen's pay @ UH makes me nauseous when I know what CU has paid for during the same time period.
I'll ask what's the BYU recruiting pitch to a kid from S. TX. when it was 79 today?
 
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Houston was the main school that CU wanted for expansion, but couldn't decide on anyone to offer along with them. R1 public in a huge market.

TCU might have been the option, but that was uncomfortable since they're R2 academically. Not a research institution.

SDSU has the same issue of being R2 and the politics of the UC / CS systems.

The only R1s in the west which play FBS football are CSU, UNM, UNLV, UN-R and Hawaii.

Dipping into the footprint of our old Big 12 conference, everyone was R1 but only Kansas, Missouri, Texas and Texas A&M are AAU members.

Generally, the Pac-12 members saw peers as non-agricultural R1 research institutions. AAU membership and Shanghai (ARWU) rank in the Top 100 were seen as adding prestige.

I was ok with that (B1G has the same standard - actually a higher one by requiring AAU status for membership [though Nebraska lost theirs :ROFLMAO:])... but the exasperating thing about that whole argument in retrospect is that a lot of it was driven by USC and UCLA who didn't want to compromise prestige through lesser academic schools which would have added to the revenue. I mean, hell, they voted against Oklahoma + Oklahoma State over this.
 
Liver said:
here's some stuff you may be overlooking with byu.

the pac and big would never, ever offer a place for byu. this is a cold hard fact. the b12 wouldn't have done it either had they not been desperate after losing ut and ou, neither of which wanted anything to do with byu.

as for the necessity of going to 16 now for the content slate, that's maybe true, but i am not sure.

say you are oregon, uw, CU, utah, cal, and stanford. these are all upper level academic and research universities who also want to compete at the highest level in college sports. none of the above got a chance to jump to the big now. all of the above would take a big offer in a heartbeat. are they better off doing the best deal they can do now, collectively, and then muscling in to the next round of expansion (the big will get bigger ultimately)? or do they dilute their earnings now by adding schools that they are not aligned with?

i dunno...
Click to expand...
And have we/Buffs been led to believe the move to the P12 was a great cultural fit? Anyone that remotely believes BYU could fit in the P12 culturally SMH.
 
Always BUFF said:
All within reason...expansion has thrown away reason begs the questions can BYU recruit TX.? & why should the P12 look to expand East of the current foot print? Losing the LA market becomes the linch pin...SDSU and the like can't stand alone it'll require the combination of schools to offset market loss.
Agree?
Click to expand...
BYU usually recruits Texas everyone normally recruits Texas.
 
Liver said:
here's some stuff you may be overlooking with byu.

the pac and big would never, ever offer a place for byu. this is a cold hard fact. the b12 wouldn't have done it either had they not been desperate after losing ut and ou, neither of which wanted anything to do with byu.

as for the necessity of going to 16 now for the content slate, that's maybe true, but i am not sure.

say you are oregon, uw, CU, utah, cal, and stanford. these are all upper level academic and research universities who also want to compete at the highest level in college sports. none of the above got a chance to jump to the big now. all of the above would take a big offer in a heartbeat. are they better off doing the best deal they can do now, collectively, and then muscling in to the next round of expansion (the big will get bigger ultimately)? or do they dilute their earnings now by adding schools that they are not aligned with?

i dunno...
Click to expand...
I recognize that as a fact. I know BYU is not a cultural fit and would never be a cultural fit.

You aren't going to get schools like Cal Tech to join the Pac which can compete academically with the Berkeley, Stanford, etc. But when you put schools in the PAC, they will be privy to PAC resources and connections. They could build up those areas in which they currently lack.

At the end of the day, UCLA and USC didn't leave for fit, academics, or weather. They left because of media rights. That's most important. You gotta master how to make best use of this.
 
Buffnik said:
Houston was the main school that CU wanted for expansion, but couldn't decide on anyone to offer along with them. R1 public in a huge market.

TCU might have been the option, but that was uncomfortable since they're R2 academically. Not a research institution.

SDSU has the same issue of being R2 and the politics of the UC / CS systems.

The only R1s in the west which play FBS football are CSU, UNM, UNLV, UN-R and Hawaii.

Dipping into the footprint of our old Big 12 conference, everyone was R1 but only Kansas, Missouri, Texas and Texas A&M are AAU members.

Generally, the Pac-12 members saw peers as non-agricultural R1 research institutions. AAU membership and Shanghai (ARWU) rank in the Top 100 were seen as adding prestige.

I was ok with that (B1G has the same standard - actually a higher one by requiring AAU status for membership [though Nebraska lost theirs :ROFLMAO:])... but the exasperating thing about that whole argument in retrospect is that a lot of it was driven by USC and UCLA who didn't want to compromise prestige through lesser academic schools which would have added to the revenue. I mean, hell, they voted against Oklahoma + Oklahoma State over this.
Click to expand...
I also understood from other convos that USC and UCLA didn't see the value any of the other schools added and it makes sense as the PAC-12 had the best TV revenue at the time of all conferences including the SEC.

It sucks looking at it now but like those Big XII schools with OU and Texas, you are so dependent on those schools. The one reason why the Big Ten grew is they are one unified front. Ohio State and Michigan could have ran that conference ragged but they saw value in Maryland and Rutgers as they saw value in Penn St and Wisconsin.

That togetherness is how they won. The SEC is also an unified front. While the ACC is ran by the Carolina mafia, the little people always are able to look out for themselves. No one gets left fending for themselves as to why they are in this terrible GoR in the first place.

To me, the Pac has to unified but it's hard to do that when you are getting stiffed.
 
Hank said:
The roadies to Hawaii would be amazeballs, bro. Ever been to a lūʻau? The Mai Tai's never stop.

522x0
Click to expand...
Been there, done that, passed out
Fantastic
 
Buffnik said:
You know what I'd be down with? Hitting the MWC by expanding the Pac in basketball.

Stay at the 10 we have.

See if we can add SDSU, UNLV, Gonzaga and UNM for non-football.

That would definitely make our basketball more valuable, and we could pay them accordingly. With the 3 that play football, it may have to include some sort of scheduling alliance like ND does with the ACC. Not conference members, but they're each able to fill about 1/3 of their football schedules with Pac-10 teams Basically, 1 non-conference game from each of the 10 members every year if we wanted to but we probably wouldn't have to -- the MWC likely keeps them for football-only anyway since they couldn't afford to lose them.
Click to expand...
How about a football-only agreement with Hawaii.
I don’t feel like they really fit with anyone, but they are a national treasure and at least their football program should be supported at all costs. Maybe have it subsidized by the NCAA or Fed.
Definitely don’t want to have to keep doing the basketball, volleyball, track thing; but Football would be cool.
 
CUAviator said:
How about a football-only agreement with Hawaii.
I don’t feel like they really fit with anyone, but they are a national treasure and at least their football program should be supported at all costs. Maybe have it subsidized by the NCAA or Fed.
Definitely don’t want to have to keep doing the basketball, volleyball, track thing; but Football would be cool.
Click to expand...
A program that has no stadium, a small media market, and hasn't been a top 25 football program. They don't belong in the P5.
 
CUAviator said:
How about a football-only agreement with Hawaii.
I don’t feel like they really fit with anyone, but they are a national treasure and at least their football program should be supported at all costs. Maybe have it subsidized by the NCAA or Fed.
Definitely don’t want to have to keep doing the basketball, volleyball, track thing; but Football would be cool.
Click to expand...
You’d have to help me understand the how the Fed subsidizing University of Hawaii football is in the national interest.
 
Buffnik said:
What needs to happen is stability for the next 8 years.

Pac-12 should do a simple add of SDSU + UNLV at this time.

Long-term, I think we need to have one unified top level of CFB.

Basically, look at the NFL format and double the number of teams from 32 to 64 - which is do-able because CFB can support major programs in states which don't have the media market to justify an NFL franchise.

Set up the schedule for regional divisions where some teams play each other every year - it's a big deal for attendance and rivalry games also draw broadcast numbers.

As I've said before, the conferences we had circa 1990 with adjustments for population shifts and some university adds/subtracts is the basic blueprint for how to group your regional divisions.

At some point I'm sure I'll geek out this offseason with a "Really ****ty CFB realignment plan".
Click to expand...
Stopped reading at UNLV. SDSU and TCU. Done.

Or go super conference as you posted earlier adding Tulane CSU BSU Etc.
 
Darth Snow said:
Nice job Utah
Click to expand...
Not the best time slot given that the playoff games had already started. The Rose Bowl needs to get with the times and move off NYD. The important bowls should be concluded before the CFP games.

And or if the CFP goes to a 12 team they try and have their venue be one of the event games. Nevermind that that run down stadium is probably doomed When compared to snazzy new NFL buildings.
 
Buffnik said:
A program that has no stadium, a small media market, and hasn't been a top 25 football program. They don't belong in the P5.
Click to expand...
Media markets are doughy in the west coast if we are being honest about it. The PAC already has most of the prominent markets.

While media markets are usually most important for east coast conferences like the ACC and American, for the PAC, time zones are what's most critical as that's the advantage you have.

It doesn't matter, they weren't a P5 program. UNLV been less successful over the last 30 years than Hawaii but it doesn't matter. It's not a P5 program. I don't value good football. All of them will have to change their entire program to compete at this level no matter if it's SMU or Fresno. Even Tulane will have to get more depth for this level and they won a New Years Day bowl against USC. G5s can easily win with the portal the way it is if they wanted to and the coaching is good enough.
 
If it is going to be 16 team conferences, then the Pac needs to take:

Kansas
Oklahoma St
TCU
Baylor (I know this is un popular, but from a set up to have the best conference it is necessary)

Then you add 2 of the following (in order of what I think would be best):

BYU
San Diego St
Boise ST
Texas Tech
UNLV
Kansas St
Iowa St
Tulane
SMU

With that 16 team conference you can pick up TV markets, improve TV deal, have a slightly better football set up, and a much better basketball league.

Go big or go home
 
Buff_since76 said:
If it is going to be 16 team conferences, then the Pac needs to take:

Kansas
Oklahoma St
TCU
Baylor (I know this is un popular, but from a set up to have the best conference it is necessary)

Then you add 2 of the following (in order of what I think would be best):

BYU
San Diego St
Boise ST
Texas Tech
UNLV
Kansas St
Iowa St
Tulane
SMU

With that 16 team conference you can pick up TV markets, improve TV deal, have a slightly better football set up, and a much better basketball league.

Go big or go home
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t totally suck but if you are going to blow up the Big12 and the MWC in order to pull that off, I would think merging P12, ACC, Big12 in to a super-conference would be more realistic…… and if that is the case, please tell me Rick has submitted requests for CU to join BIG or SEC.

I don’t want to see CU stuck in a lengthy GoR deal with that cast of characters listed.

We should represent context value to SEC, which should be looking to the future, and expansion to a new time zone(s). Our media market (and others out west) represents value that SEC will need in their next media rights negotiations. I think our best chance with SEC would come with us leaving P12 before ACC implodes. Admittedly, there are better expansion options for SEC in ACC than out west.

BIG could capture a R1/AAU cultural fit, a true rival for Nebraska and one of the prized media markets out west…. And more western time zone content. A 4 school addition scenario where CU, UW, a Bay Area school, Oregon/UofAriz would be the best in my estimation. These P12 schools could all come in at an initial partial share and still be winning compared to staying in P12.
 
BuffHerd said:
Wouldn’t totally suck but if you are going to blow up the Big12 and the MWC in order to pull that off, I would think merging P12, ACC, Big12 in to a super-conference would be more realistic…… and if that is the case, please tell me Rick has submitted requests for CU to join BIG or SEC.

I don’t want to see CU stuck in a lengthy GoR deal with that cast of characters listed.

We should represent context value to SEC, which should be looking to the future, and expansion to a new time zone(s). Our media market (and others out west) represents value that SEC will need in their next media rights negotiations. I think our best chance with SEC would come with us leaving P12 before ACC implodes. Admittedly, there are better expansion options for SEC in ACC than out west.

BIG could capture a R1/AAU cultural fit, a true rival for Nebraska and one of the prized media markets out west…. And more western time zone content. A 4 school addition scenario where CU, UW, a Bay Area school, Oregon/UofAriz would be the best in my estimation. These P12 schools could all come in at an initial partial share and still be winning compared to staying in P12.
Click to expand...

I can see the ACC forcing Notre Dame to fully join, and adding West Virginia (or Houston). This would put them at 16, and give them a stand alone conference structure which should hold its own. This creates 3 set conferences. I think you have to push to blow up the Big12, and take what you want from it in order to create the 4th conference.

If that happens I think Texas, Oklahoma, UCLA, and USC end up worse off (NTTAWWT)
 
The discussion of time zones is valid, but it ignores the fact that the PAC already controls half the time zones in the lower 48. We don’t need to add Hawaii to corner the evening time slots. Adding a game at 1:00 AM eastern, six days a year, provides such minimal value as to not be worth mentioning. Add to that the immense cost of travel and the fact that they don’t even have a home stadium, so any travel guarantees are nil. The fantasy of Hawaii in the PAC is great, the reality of what it would mean makes it a dead issue.
 
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