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CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues
- Thread starter InTheBuff
- Start date
My bad bro for letting you down.You used to be my favorite new poster! What happened?
Ok, so let me get this straight. The chances that the SEC adds CU, the flagship research university in a rich and growing state with a top 20 media market is 0.0%.
But the PAC 12 should seriously consider adding Georgia State, essentially an open admission school that runs somewhere between 3rd and 5th fiddle in the state of Georgia? And Hawaii, a school that debates dropping football every few years? Do I have that right?
Again, the chances that CU gets into either the Big Ten or the SEC is pretty remote (note the word REMOTE, which may be the first time I’ve resorted to all caps in 15 years on Allbuffs).
But the PAC 12 should seriously consider adding Georgia State, essentially an open admission school that runs somewhere between 3rd and 5th fiddle in the state of Georgia? And Hawaii, a school that debates dropping football every few years? Do I have that right?
Again, the chances that CU gets into either the Big Ten or the SEC is pretty remote (note the word REMOTE, which may be the first time I’ve resorted to all caps in 15 years on Allbuffs).
There is no comparison. The SEC and B1G have stated they only want elite brands. They pulled Texas, OU, UCLA, and USC. Those are elite brands.
GA State only makes sense if the Pac is considering Rice and South Florida based on the video. Why are you trying to play my words? I am literally making a point based on the video someone here posted. Hawaii been explained at least 10 times on here by me. Time zones, T1 broadcast, academics. While I previously argued Hawaii for all sports. I settled with the idea that Hawaii for football only with partnership with Gonzaga.
GA is a massive state with 10+ million people plus many within Atlanta. Georgia Tech is considered a great institution as is Emory. GA State is a R1 with 124 million made in research money with no conference banking like the Pac. It's a hidden gem. It's funny, when I was propping up Colorado, I got a lot of hate from my own community. Seems like this hate is coming again from another which is odd because I don't just like anyone. I did my research and I called Colorado a hidden gem among P5s. Many of you guys loved me for it but I feel GA State is one and I am catching hate for it. Odd. If you trust me, you trust me.
I don't agree that Colorado will never get into one of these elite conferences. I just stated, CU would have to have 5 years of tremendous success to do so. You gotta make it clear, you deserve all of the respect.
The Pac 10 expanding with G5 programs doesn't really move the needle, you are correct in that. My point is, the B1G and SEC are very choosy because there aren't many brands left that are going to add much $$ on a per school basis. Well, the same goes the Pac 10, just on a smaller scale. Georgia State adds absolutely NOTHING to a P5 conference. Rice adds absolutely NOTHING to a P5 conference.
As it pertains to Boise St, I will say it again... They actually draw viewers for their football games, especially when they play other brand teams. Nobody is going to watch Rice or Georgia State play football. SDSU has a big media market and would get the Pac 10 back into SoCal, while also keeping the Big 12 from gaining a foothold there. That's really the only reason SDSU is considered the prime expansion candidate.
Here's where I think this is all going, though...
The reason why the B1G and SEC will eventually expand with brands that might not actually increase the per school payout in the short term is because the networks are going to tell them that's what is necessary to achieve the ultimate goal of the NFLization of the college game. The NFL makes 5x per year what the B1G and SEC make COMBINED ($10B vs ~$2B) because they merged into one entity and have broad representation across the country. The Networks don't want two leagues that only have a two team presence in the Western half of the United States. They want coast to coast inventory of games that matter happening throughout the entire day. They want all the major media markets involved because once that setup has been achieved, the product becomes the "College Football League" not the 2-3 marquee matchups each week like it is currently.
You and I seem to go round and round on a lot of issues for some reason. Whether that be on Quay Davis (where I stated CU culture does not accept violence against women, which has turned out to be prescient), or on Aric Gilbert (where I stated that it would be a huge mistake to recruit him). In any case, it’s not personal and I’m not here to hate on anyone. Reasonable people can disagree.
What makes us different then Oregon? We had a highly successful streak 30 years ago and now were in the dumps after a decade of bad football. They are having a success streak right now like we once had. They also have Nike everywhere. They are a hot property right now and yet they didnt get invited to the prom either. I dont think that Oregon being left out bodes well for CU.
In the back of my mind I think at some point these Super League schools will leave sooo many other schools out that the Presidents of the ‘have nots‘ may start voting at the NCAA and pressuring Congress to do something to level the playing field. This isnt good for college athletics.
Yeah
No one is watching Boise like that. Saying they are doing better numbers than GA State or Rice is meaningless because P5 is a completely different ball game. Boise can be a superior G5 but an inferior P5. Not everyone is a good translatable school. Upside matters, that's why SDSU is a miles better of an add than Boise. I know why SDSU adds value. That's why it's always been the top brand that's left which is available.
That could happen but we are at least 20 years away from that. Deion would be 70 something when that comes into fruition.
A lot. Money. Recent success. Brand. I mean, you are talking about the brand that makes the most money in the PAC 12. The only thing they lack an appealing media market. That holds them back from being an E2. Washington has more upside. Colorado has more upside. But Colorado brought Prime in for a reason and it wasn't because he's handsome. You guys haven't had success since Gary Barnett. Its been awhile and really really bad. But like Oregon has Phil Knight, you now have Coach Prime
Colorado has tremendous upside but as a right now. Your metrics over the last 10 years are really bad for P5s. It's just nothing there for now but the upside is real. Extremely real.
@#1 pick - listen. I like you. You bring a lot to the board and I value that. But we need to stop this nonsense about Hawaii and Georgia State. We immediately discounted any motion of Rice or USF as well. If your only point was that G St makes as much sense as those schools, then I agree - it makes zero sense and isn’t going to happen.
A little info on SDSU below. Rhetorical question: Why do you build a new stadium and cap it at 32,500 (+2500 SRO)? Is the low turnout because the school is in the MWC, or because college football is a tough draw in SoCal for anyone not named USC? Or both?
In any event neither SDSU nor Boise State are really big ratings draws although they are clearly the "best" candidates if the PAC 10 wants to expand. But adding any G5 school to the PAC 10 is ultimately like adding hot water to good coffee or cat turds to a peanut butter sandwich. It's just desperation and dilution. Let's get over to the B12 with the other 4 corner schools as soon as possible.
www.sandiegouniontribune.com
In any event neither SDSU nor Boise State are really big ratings draws although they are clearly the "best" candidates if the PAC 10 wants to expand. But adding any G5 school to the PAC 10 is ultimately like adding hot water to good coffee or cat turds to a peanut butter sandwich. It's just desperation and dilution. Let's get over to the B12 with the other 4 corner schools as soon as possible.
Aztecs AD says inaugural season at Snapdragon Stadium 'exceeded my expectations'
SDSU AD John David Wicker finds mostly positives in new facility, where Aztecs' announced attendance averaged 29,225 (21,565 turnstile) for 2022 season
www.sandiegouniontribune.com
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Hey #1, please compare CU to Mississippi State?
RIP Mike Leach
Besides Miss St already being in the SEC, compare the programs holistically.
Then we can talk about Maryland, Rutgers, Purdue, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, etc…
Football history, prowess, potential, modern dynamics, not academics or University related things are the attributes to discuss, cause College Football has left the Student-Athlete thing mostly behind.
RIP Mike Leach
Besides Miss St already being in the SEC, compare the programs holistically.
Then we can talk about Maryland, Rutgers, Purdue, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, etc…
Football history, prowess, potential, modern dynamics, not academics or University related things are the attributes to discuss, cause College Football has left the Student-Athlete thing mostly behind.
This is why it comes down to the networks, not the conferences, needing to drive future realignment if we want things to break the best way for CU. Conferences don't kick teams out.
Well. Not yet. But thats coming.
They are already in the SEC. What is there to compare?
Same for Maryland and Rutgers for the B1G and if you let them tell it, they will tell you the media market was a massive coup for the B1G network.
I don't follow you, are you saying that because Colorado is a better school than some of the bottom feeder of these conferences that you deserve to be there because they are there. Well, that's not how it works. Oregon and Washington are superior than all of those teams and still aren't getting an invite to either conference.
If it does, it would be a major change from historical norms.
The two nearest examples I can think of would be 1) the SWC disbanding and 4 programs breaking off to form a new conference with the Big 8 and 2) half the WAC splitting off as a new MWC to try to get more money per school by leaving some behind.
So there's recent precedent for banding together for more money and forming something new & leaving old partners behind. It would be a huge departure, though, if it was still called "Big Ten" and "SEC" but with new members added and old kicked out.
If the deck got completely reshuffled, my guess is they'll look at what works for NFL and MLB. I.e., we'll have 2 conferences made up of divisions of 6-8 teams each which play each other every year, some sort of scheduling matrix for how you round robin over the course of seasons to play teams in the other divisions, and a multi-round playoff that ends in conference champ vs conference champ for the title.
i agree with @#1 pick about something important: Prime isn't here to **** around. he's here so we can do the necessary rebuild to back where we want to be in terms of program desirability.
even the sec and the big have bottom feeder programs who basically were grandfathered in. we are in the same tier of history and potential as uw. oregon is doing everything it can as well.
we are not vanderbilt or missippi state or mizzery. we are not a big bottom feeder. and, we are certainly not oregon state or wash state.
we need to win. everything else will sort itself out. and if we end up dominating a diminished pac with an auto bid into the playoffs, better to rule in hell than serve in heaven.
i will have to choke down bile if we have to go back to the b12 even if it is a means to an end, but we will do what we need to do to move forward.
even the sec and the big have bottom feeder programs who basically were grandfathered in. we are in the same tier of history and potential as uw. oregon is doing everything it can as well.
we are not vanderbilt or missippi state or mizzery. we are not a big bottom feeder. and, we are certainly not oregon state or wash state.
we need to win. everything else will sort itself out. and if we end up dominating a diminished pac with an auto bid into the playoffs, better to rule in hell than serve in heaven.
i will have to choke down bile if we have to go back to the b12 even if it is a means to an end, but we will do what we need to do to move forward.
The driver of massive change will be when a Big 12/Pac10/ACC program keeps big brand B1G/SEC programs out of the 12 team playoff simply because they won their conference or went 10-2.
Bama, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Texas, OU, and then aTm, Tennessee and Auburn to lesser extents, all believe they are blue bloods or a tier below, that should be competing for a Natty every year.
Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Penn State same way in the B1G.
That’s 13 teams from those two conferences who are all going to be real pissed off they have to play each other, go 9-3 in a good year, and miss out on a playoff spot to a couple of 2 loss Pac/ACC/Big12 programs.
It's what caused the more well heeled conferences to tear apart Big East football rather than deal with them as a BCS auto-bid league. I think only USF and UConn didn't get snatched up.
And with Conference Champ and highest rated G5 autobids, it only leaves 6 spots for 11 of those non-champ B1G and SEC programs. 5 spots if ND is good enough to be in the top 12 in the country, and that’s IF only 1 Pac/ACC/B12 team gets in.
Between, CU, Oregon, Utah, Washington, TCU, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Cincinnati, Houston, Miami, FSU, UNC, Clemson, Pitt, etc, how many non champs are going to bye for top 12?
STOP YELLING!
If the ESPN said $Xmil more per school if you kick OrSU and WSU and add A and B would you?
There are teams in the SEC and maybe the B1G that would. The next schools on the outside looking in will be the ones that are not competitive but ESPN is carrying them. This last quarter Ad sales at ESPN were soft. That means the content was not compelling for advertisers bc the viewers were not there. That means bigger matchups are needed
Would the numbers work to have a 32 team Big 10/SEC?. 2 conferences, 4 divisions each. Just like the NFL. Each team would have a base conference payment, but only teams that make the 8 team playoff would split the significant conference playoff/NCAA playoff revenue. Would give the big dogs more and create a nice financial incentive for teams to get better. If cbs is paying $55 million for sec championship maybe the distro per game could be something like this
Quarterfinals: $5 million per team
Semifinals: $12 million per team
Finals: $25 million per team
Making the finals could mean an $42 million dollar payout for two schools.
Quarterfinals: $5 million per team
Semifinals: $12 million per team
Finals: $25 million per team
Making the finals could mean an $42 million dollar payout for two schools.
The networks would be a lot happier immediately if the major conference teams would just stop playing FCS opponents. Ideally no G5 opponents, but that wasn't feasible with so many bowl games to fill and only a 4-team playoff.
I guess what I wonder is how big the money would have to be to get the hyper elites to agree to a format where a 5-7 win season is going to happen fairly regularly.
Nm/double
$175 - $200m/year/school (32 schools?)… double what they get now or half of what the NFL gets. And I think you’d have to consider it, right? Take double what they are currently getting and then they’d just start paying players large, market value contracts.