CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[SINKRATZ]

They justify it the same way that CU and Utah justified joining the Pac-12.

Right, I think loyalty to conference partners is quickly taking a backseat to survival and financial realities. Half the ACC would bolt that conference tomorrow for more money if their GOR weren’t in the way. Washington and Oregon would bolt for the BIG tomorrow and leave their in state partners behind if the invite came. All those moves would certainly “screw current partners.” Booting members from a conference is a distinction without a difference which is why I don’t think that’s out of the question going forward, unfortunately.

 

[Buffnik]

Right, I think loyalty to conference partners is quickly taking a backseat to survival and financial realities. Half the ACC would bolt that conference tomorrow for more money if their GOR weren’t in the way. Washington and Oregon would bolt for the BIG tomorrow and leave there in state partners behind if the invite came. All those moves would certainly “screw current partners.” Booting members from a conference is a distinction without a difference which is why I don’t think that’s out of the question going forward, unfortunately.

It will only happen once a bunch of schools that thought they deserved a seat at the table don't get an invite. At which point they'll be open to the idea of banding together to form a super conference of the best programs & markets remaining across the country.

 

[Bison]

1. The Pac 10 will certainly not have any kind of 99 year GOR in any part of their media deal. Nobody is going to agree to that willingly. I could see a provision that forces the repayment of media $$ if a program leaves within X amount of years, but nobody is going to sign up for any kind of 99 year GOR.

2. CU deciding they don't want to pay $100m exit fee from the Big 12 is not any kind of indication that they aren't interested in top tier athletics. Fact is, the $$ difference between the Pac 10 and Big 12 would have to be $10m+/year to make that kind of decision even close to a wash (if CU can make $60-$70m more in the Big 12 over the next 6-7 years, then it would be somewhat of a wash to then pay the B12 exit fee).

3. Huh? No other P5 programs want to be stuck in the Big 12 and half the ACC wants out of their GOR. Why would the Pac 10 take a copy of the ACC GOR?

1. 99 years or six years wouldn't matter because the conference will still withhold revenues towards the eventual exit fee. Any conference will still need money to pay the new replacement schools once they enter the conference. The SEC once said they didn't need such a deal but I would not be surprised if a SEC GOR is in place by the time OU & UT joins the conference because they are now in Texas. Pretty standard practice for college athletic conferences. After watching USC & UCLA leave without having to pay a penny, a 99 year GOR sounds good.

2. If CU decided to not pay the $100M, it will signal to all stakeholders and potential stakeholders that they are not interested in top tier athletics and that isn't only a bad thing. It doesn't mean CU isn't interested in athletic success and like I have said, good football (or insert sport) is not exclusive to FBS football. I enjoyed watching FCS football the last few seasons and I have no problems accepting the fact that CU is relegated to a lower tier as long as CU is WINNING. It is crystal clear that CU is not on the level of those elite B1G or SEC teams but CU can be one of the best P12/B12/ACC tier teams out there. If that is what CU is doing by joining the B12, that's a good move.

3. Like #1, it's standard operating practice and that in turn could mean better media rights deals down the road. That is why the P12 is having difficulty in landing a new media rights deal. What is going to happen is that any future media rights deals will be shorter in nature. The B12's GOR certainly helped land a good media rights deal extension despite the loss of OU & UT.

The B12 & ACC GORs are bulletproof and any conference will be smart to ask those two for guidance on their new GORs.

 

[Victory]

Right, I think loyalty to conference partners is quickly taking a backseat to survival and financial realities. Half the ACC would bolt that conference tomorrow for more money if their GOR weren’t in the way. Washington and Oregon would bolt for the BIG tomorrow and leave there in state partners behind if the invite came. All those moves would certainly “screw current partners.” Booting members from a conference is a distinction without a difference which is why I don’t think that’s out of the question going forward, unfortunately.

Distinction without a difference is one of the better lines I’ve read on this board

They would be justified financially. What would make this move different than other realignment moves is the sense of finality to it. Meaning, if you’re Ore St or WSU, that’s it. You’re in the MWC and potentially not coming back to adult table for decades or possibly ever. There are no good options for those left out (as opposed to the P12 now, or B12 back then when we left).

That said, I don’t think any school wants to be, or can afford to be, held back from making more money because of personal feelings or guilt.

 

[Victory]

It will only happen once a bunch of schools that thought they deserved a seat at the table don't get an invite. At which point they'll be open to the idea of banding together to form a super conference of the best programs & markets remaining across the country.

That may be it. The top brands think they can secure their individual invite to B1G and SEC and leave the P12 or ACC remainders with a chance to survive. I don’t think either conference would survive imho.

 

[InTheBuff]

It will only happen once a bunch of schools that thought they deserved a seat at the table don't get an invite. At which point they'll be open to the idea of banding together to form a super conference of the best programs & markets remaining across the country.

That's the B12.

 

[leftybuff]

Wonder if P12 Commissioner GK is getting any sleep this week.

I think the answer is yes, and he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[leftybuff]

The 49ers just had their best year of attendance. Those Stanford fans have NO EXCUSES.

View attachment 62253





There's always the streaming model and especially if you want to watch the game under a tree with phone coverage which means you would have to find a way to log in onto Xfinity on a non Xfinity network. Much more convenient to get the streaming subscription. It's not just about parking your ass on the recliner and watching on your mega television while waiting on Doordash to deliver the goods. It's much more about SEEING THE GAME one way or the other. You would still have to subscribe to ESPN+ with CU in the Big 12 so what exactly are you arguing for? A CW & ESPN deal with ESPN+ would be the same thing as what we would get in the Big 12 with ESPN+.

Well, the 49'ers do serve a really quality brie....

 

[Bison]

It will only happen once a bunch of schools that thought they deserved a seat at the table don't get an invite. At which point they'll be open to the idea of banding together to form a super conference of the best programs & markets remaining across the country.

Or perhaps a regionalization of college athletic programs. Intermountain & old Big 8 region for CU in that case.

It's just time to blow up the P12, B12, MWC, ACC, and AAC to see new conferences form with a strong emphasis on regions.

 

[Buffnik]

Or perhaps a regionalization of college athletic programs. Intermountain & old Big 8 region for CU in that case.

It's just time to blow up the P12, B12, MWC, ACC, and AAC to see new conferences form with a strong emphasis on regions.

The fear of that happening (and the associated small time revenue & status) is exactly what would drive a new super conference which kills the ACC, Pac-12 and Big 12.

 

[Bison]

Well, the 49'ers do serve a really quality brie....

Or they simply don't care.

 

[Bison]

The fear of that happening (and the associated small time revenue & status) is exactly what would drive a new super conference which kills the ACC, Pac-12 and Big 12.

Then let's get that done.

 

[Bison]

 

[Buffnik]

In retrospect, it's amazing that he wasn't told that he's smoking crack if he thinks a collective of universities can do media production and distribution as well as Fox and ESPN. It's the same arrogance UT showed with LHN, but at least they were smart enough to realize their mistake and accept the offer when ESPN came to the table to take over & buy them out of LHN. Pac-12 refused to entertain such offers.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

In retrospect, it's amazing that he wasn't told that he's smoking crack if he thinks a collective of universities can do media production and distribution as well as Fox and ESPN. It's the same arrogance UT showed with LHN, but at least they were smart enough to realize their mistake and accept the offer when ESPN came to the table to take over & buy them out of LHN. Pac-12 refused to entertain such offers.

**** Larry Scott, but mostly **** the University Presidents/Chancellors (Pac 12CEO group).

 

[Bison]

In retrospect, it's amazing that he wasn't told that he's smoking crack if he thinks a collective of universities can do media production and distribution as well as Fox and ESPN. It's the same arrogance UT showed with LHN, but at least they were smart enough to realize their mistake and accept the offer when ESPN came to the table to take over & buy them out of LHN. Pac-12 refused to entertain such offers.

Would we have been happy with being in a division with Utah, UA, ASU, OU, OSU, UT, and TT? That would be SWC 2.0 or 3.0 depending on how you view things.

You also make a solid point about arrogance which wouldn't be limited to UT. That got me thinking that if the P12 continues to have that arrogance about keeping the P12N, then we need to go back to the B12. No need to keep falling behind by repeating the same mistakes the P12 is repeating in that case. If CU is to stay in the P12, the P12N needs to be sold.

 

[Buffnik]

Would we have been happy with being in a division with Utah, UA, ASU, OU, OSU, UT, and TT? That would be SWC 2.0 or 3.0 depending on how you view things.

You also make a solid point about arrogance which wouldn't be limited to UT. That got me thinking that if the P12 continues to have that arrogance about keeping the P12N, then we need to go back to the B12. No need to keep falling behind by repeating the same mistakes the P12 is repeating in that case. If CU is to stay in the P12, the P12N needs to be sold.

That division was never on the table in the beginning. At the time, Pac was targeting a 14-team conference which added CU, OU, aTm and UT.

Later on (after CU & Utah had already joined), I do believe that there was a push to add OU & UT which included a willingness to accept OSU & TTU if that's what it took. But as we've learned from the SEC move, OU & UT were going to do what was best for them and weren't going to demand that those schools came along with them.

UT wanted a revenue model which wasn't 100% equal, LHN absorbed with them being duly compensated, and a guarantee of playing USC every year iirc. Pac-12 balked at all that.

 

[hawg1]

There is no such thing as a 99 year GOR.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

There is no such thing as a 99 year GOR.

Whatever you want to call it. A 99 year agreement to continue butt****ing (nttawwt) each other and if someone decides they’ve had enough they owe 2 years of revenue distribution which is estimated to be about $50m/year.

 

[Bison]

There is no such thing as a 99 year GOR.

That's why I treated that as a hypothetical thing. Truth is that there is no escaping GORs and the price to exit conferences. USC & UCLA really lucked out in this case.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

That's why I treated that as a hypothetical thing. Truth is that there is no escaping GORs and the price to exit conferences. USC & UCLA really lucked out in this case.

Of course there is. You simply exit the conference when the current media deal is up, which also means you don’t sign onto a conference with a 99 year agreement to pay 2 years of revenue for an exit fee or enter into a 16 year GOR like the ACC.

This is why staying in the Pac 10 is ideal. They’ll sign a 6 year media deal, likely coinciding with the end of the B1G deal, because none of them want to be in a situation where they have to pay a massive exit fee.

 

[Victory]

Whatever you want to call it. A 99 year agreement to continue butt****ing (nttawwt) each other and if someone decides they’ve had enough they owe 2 years of revenue distribution which is estimated to be about $50m/year.

Que the “lawyers can negotiate it down”… to a sum we still can’t afford.

 

[ahoelsken]

1. 99 years or six years wouldn't matter because the conference will still withhold revenues towards the eventual exit fee. Any conference will still need money to pay the new replacement schools once they enter the conference. The SEC once said they didn't need such a deal but I would not be surprised if a SEC GOR is in place by the time OU & UT joins the conference because they are now in Texas. Pretty standard practice for college athletic conferences. After watching USC & UCLA leave without having to pay a penny, a 99 year GOR sounds good.

2. If CU decided to not pay the $100M, it will signal to all stakeholders and potential stakeholders that they are not interested in top tier athletics and that isn't only a bad thing. It doesn't mean CU isn't interested in athletic success and like I have said, good football (or insert sport) is not exclusive to FBS football. I enjoyed watching FCS football the last few seasons and I have no problems accepting the fact that CU is relegated to a lower tier as long as CU is WINNING. It is crystal clear that CU is not on the level of those elite B1G or SEC teams but CU can be one of the best P12/B12/ACC tier teams out there. If that is what CU is doing by joining the B12, that's a good move.

3. Like #1, it's standard operating practice and that in turn could mean better media rights deals down the road. That is why the P12 is having difficulty in landing a new media rights deal. What is going to happen is that any future media rights deals will be shorter in nature. The B12's GOR certainly helped land a good media rights deal extension despite the loss of OU & UT.

The B12 & ACC GORs are bulletproof and any conference will be smart to ask those two for guidance on their new GORs.

1. Where is an SEC school going?

2. CU is making money hand over foot with Deion Sanders running the football program. Think of all the Coach Prime swag that this fanbase now owns. Think about ESPN televising the spring game. Selling out the spring game. All of this has taken place before Deion Sanders has coached a game at CU. Our first two games are on Big Noon-on a TV network that doesn't want anything to do with the Pac 12 as a whole. Regardless of how this ****ing Pac 12 TV circus turns out, CU's #1 priority needs to be ensuring Prime is here as long as possible. If this team gets to a bowl, give Prime a raise. Prime also brought in a championship caliber staff. Sean Lewis is one of the best young offensive minds in the sport, and he will be a Power 5 coach. Charles Kelly was the best recruiter in the country last year, and he should have been the defensive signal caller at Alabama at some point during his time there.

3. The Big 12 GoR isn't bulletproof. Texas and Oklahoma paid a $100M exit fee COMBINED. (https://athlonsports.com/college-fo...a-texas-will-pay-to-leave-big-12-a-year-early) There is a lot of overthinking the idea of joining the Big 12. I don't like the idea of a conference change, but I also don't like the fact that this media rights odyssey is now 13 months old. Either way-we're talking about the time between now and the time somebody finally gets out of the ACC's GoR/it blows up. My guess is that is going to be 2033-34.

 

[Fred 2]

Would we have been happy with being in a division with Utah, UA, ASU, OU, OSU, UT, and TT? That would be SWC 2.0 or 3.0 depending on how you view things.

You also make a solid point about arrogance which wouldn't be limited to UT. That got me thinking that if the P12 continues to have that arrogance about keeping the P12N, then we need to go back to the B12. No need to keep falling behind by repeating the same mistakes the P12 is repeating in that case. If CU is to stay in the P12, the P12N needs to be sold.

Yes

 

[Victory]

Of course there is. You simply exit the conference when the current media deal is up, which also means you don’t sign onto a conference with a 99 year agreement to pay 2 years of revenue for an exit fee or enter into a 16 year GOR like the ACC.

This is why staying in the Pac 10 is ideal. They’ll sign a 6 year media deal, likely coinciding with the end of the B1G deal, because none of them want to be in a situation where they have to pay a massive exit fee.

We’re going to find out on Friday one way or another. Either Kliavkoff announces the deal or is convincing enough to have people believe it’s going to happen soon and the money will be there.

But if he mentions “challenging economic climate” and goes down that road of pinning blame on the networks and economy then I’m going to assume the B12 rumors are likely true and the money isn’t there.

 

[leftybuff]

We’re going to find out on Friday one way or another. Either Kliavkoff announces the deal or is convincing enough to have people believe it’s going to happen soon and the money will be there.

But if he mentions “challenging economic climate” and goes down that road of pinning blame on the networks and economy then I’m going to assume the B12 rumors are likely true and the money isn’t there.

Forward thinking, blah, blah, blah....

I will be happy to eat crow, but GK has no clothes.

 

[Bison]

1. Where is an SEC school going?

2. CU is making money hand over foot with Deion Sanders running the football program. Think of all the Coach Prime swag that this fanbase now owns. Think about ESPN televising the spring game. Selling out the spring game. All of this has taken place before Deion Sanders has coached a game at CU. Our first two games are on Big Noon-on a TV network that doesn't want anything to do with the Pac 12 as a whole. Regardless of how this ****ing Pac 12 TV circus turns out, CU's #1 priority needs to be ensuring Prime is here as long as possible. If this team gets to a bowl, give Prime a raise. Prime also brought in a championship caliber staff. Sean Lewis is one of the best young offensive minds in the sport, and he will be a Power 5 coach. Charles Kelly was the best recruiter in the country last year, and he should have been the defensive signal caller at Alabama at some point during his time there.

3. The Big 12 GoR isn't bulletproof. Texas and Oklahoma paid a $100M exit fee COMBINED. (https://athlonsports.com/college-fo...a-texas-will-pay-to-leave-big-12-a-year-early) There is a lot of overthinking the idea of joining the Big 12. I don't like the idea of a conference change, but I also don't like the fact that this media rights odyssey is now 13 months old. Either way-we're talking about the time between now and the time somebody finally gets out of the ACC's GoR/it blows up. My guess is that is going to be 2033-34.

1. Will Texas stay in the SEC if the B1G offers a better deal? Conference loyalty in general is no longer what it used to be.

2. I agree CU needs to keep things together when it comes to Coach Prime. If CU has another Mel Tucker escape saga with Coach Prime, I think many CU fans will just move on from CU.

3. Being bulletproof means schools can't escape paying the conference a large amount on the way out. The Big 12 was ready to move on from those two so the price came down. The goal behind those GORs is to ensure the conference is able to pay new incoming members in year one and whatever number of years before the next media rights deal kicks in.

 

[Bison]

Yes

Please elaborate.

 

[Liver]

as i am resigned to whatever conference fate the football gods have in store for us (like i won't whine and complain, however)... i think one argument in favor of the b12 in this thread may actually make some sense-- arguably a better recruiting footprint for this staff. ok, there, i said something nice.

i shall still chronicle my journeys through the badlands of the truck stop 12 as necessary and without remorse.

also my kid texted me the caloric information for cracker barrel's menu. do you people have a ****ing death wish? why don't you just inject the fat directly into your arteries and get it over with?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

1. Will Texas stay in the SEC if the B1G offers a better deal? Conference loyalty in general is no longer what it used to be.

2. I agree CU needs to keep things together when it comes to Coach Prime. If CU has another Mel Tucker escape saga with Coach Prime, I think many CU fans will just move on from CU.

3. Being bulletproof means schools can't escape paying the conference a large amount on the way out. The Big 12 was ready to move on from those two so the price came down. The goal behind those GORs is to ensure the conference is able to pay new incoming members in year one and whatever number of years before the next media rights deal kicks in.

Lol. The big 12 was not ready to move on from OU and UT. ESPN was able to negotiate things down with the big 12 because they knew it would be better for them on the SEC side of the contract.

The only programs agreeing to “bulletproof” GOR contracts are G5 programs with no other options. Every other P5 program wants out.