CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[BuffWarHog]

Hey! A smoked tri-tip finished on the grill is effing glorious.

I think that’s his point.

 

[InTheBuff]

The MHver guy is only confirming what I've heard. UCONN is getting a lot of push from ESPN and ESPN wants them in the Big XII just like Fox wanted Colorado.

Washington and Oregon are both wanted by ESPN and Fox but both are also coveted by the B1G which they are in talks with as well.

Arizona is the other school highly coveted by the Big XII

Arizona State is a battle as Fox doesn't wants them as much as Zona or CU but ESPN wants UCONN and will cover their freight. UCONN is being carried by ESPN, the Presidents like the PAC schools more but that company from the NE yields a lot of power in the Big XII and will likely get their way.

The networks want to stop at 16 for non Basketball only schools.

They are targeting Memphis, St. John's, Gonzaga, Georgetown, and Villanova. I was told Seton Hall is on back burner. Georgetown is also a fall back plan. Memphis is unlikely to join without an all sports offer but that's not exactly clear at the moment until the numbers are given.

It seems like they are about to blow up the Big East again. This seems to be ESPN wanting Big East Basketball back and willing to carry the freight.

There's a guy on the TCU 247 board all over the story last weekend saying to watch for CU to leave this week. I was a bit skeptical but so many other posters were saying he has legit sources. Anyways... last night he mentioned that MHver does in fact have a legit source himself and people need to take some of his posts for seriously.

 

[BuffUp]

I love the move, I wish Texas and Oklahoma were still there though.

 

[InTheBuff]

The PAC 12 never presented a media deal (because there isn’t one). The Big 12 offered a full share at $31.7 million plus playoff money, which means closer to $50 million+ per year. Is the Big 12 an ideal landing spot? No. But it’s pretty much the only deal on offer.

Also, it has been rumored that the Big 12 has only four slots open. I can’t link to any confirmation of that, but I believe that to be true. As a result, there may be some well known PAC schools with no landing spot than the MWC (Or rather a rebranding of the MWC as the PAC).

You will soon see PAC schools climbing over each other to get into the Big 12.

I still think the PAC had the better roster of schools, but terrible mismanagement. The Big 12 has been outmaneuvering it for years now.

It was wise that Colorado was the first to make the move. I'd hate to be Utah or ASU right now. There are no guarantees they both get in.

GK really ****ed up. The very moment USC/UCLA announced that they were leaving, he should have been on the phone finding any way he could get Kansas, Okie St, Texas Tech and KSU at the very least to join. I'd argue TCU and Baylor as well.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Donations to the athletic department from California increased 903 percent during CU’s first four seasons in the Pac-12, the Boulder Daily Camera reported in 2015.

I've asked this a half dozen times on here, but can anyone show if that increase was sustained? People getting excited about change is expected. But if it's a transitory increase, it doesn't really matter.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

No. If it were real we wouldnt have waited so long to make the move. If someone has the math please post it.

Pretty sure this guy added media revenue to total conference revenue shares, apparently unaware that conference revenue shared included media revenue. Our total annual check from the Big XII should be somewhere between 40 - 50.

 

[skibum]

1- With title games not needing divisions... they aren't needed.

They're needed for scheduling and planning.

You can't have a random assortment of opponents that change every year. You need some consistent opponents both for logistical reasons and for fan engagement.

 

[cu3x]

I don't think conference affiliation means that much anymore, beyond money. It's all Ws and rankings. I'm fine with the B12.

The fact a school may have a weak program (U Conn), doesn't mean it has to stay that way, or that it has to take many years to change. Big money and support mean everything nowadays.

(curious hypo: If CU was bowl eligible, would they be able to negotiate their appearance fee? CP would bring a tone of exposure, advertising money)

 

[ScreamingBeagle]

There's a guy on the TCU 247 board all over the story last weekend saying to watch for CU to leave this week. I was a bit skeptical but so many other posters were saying he has legit sources. Anyways... last night he mentioned that MHver does in fact have a legit source himself and people need to take some of his posts for seriously.

Mhver3 is a weird dude. I follow him, but take everything he says with a grain of salt. The WV guys may or may not have sources from way back when WVU was at the center of this whole thing. So it's worth giving it a read, and is probably a decent pulse check of what might be happening.

I do Flugar think is a much better source. He has nailed both USC and this. I would keep an eye on his stuff pretty closely. He might get it wrong, but for 'random internet' sourcing it hasn't been awful.

 

[InTheBuff]

Mhver3 is a weird dude. I follow him, but take everything he says with a grain of salt. The WV guys may or may not have sources from way back when WVU was at the center of this whole thing. So it's worth giving it a read, and is probably a decent pulse check of what might be happening.

I do Flugar think is a much better source. He has nailed both USC and this. I would keep an eye on his stuff pretty closely. He might get it wrong, but for 'random internet' sourcing it hasn't been awful.

Flugar has been pretty accurate. He has his sources that have come through.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

Probably not much more than they did anyway. The left coast does not support football like the central or southeastern parts of the country, which is why the Pac-12 is in this situation.

Yes and no. The PAC vibe is that of a band wagon fan. They’re a fickle sort. If we would have given hope that we would be good, I bet donations would have been substantially higher. We’ll never know I suppose

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Don’t apologize. F*** everyone but us. Focusing on California was a failure so we go back to our roots. CU is a Colorado school and most of the student body is closer in family ties and connection to the surrounding states than California so it makes sense to play them

You just can’t trust people from a state that considers hot n fast Tri-tip “barbecue”. Great cut of meat, but it’s grilling, not barbecue

Youre drunk.

 

[Buffnik]

The Les Grossman unapologetically awesome posts just keep coming.

I've never understood the obsession with this whole California alumni base talk.

1) Our AD isn't swimming in California donor money because we're in the PAC. One of the Twitter graphics I saw put us (iirc) 4th lowest AD budget in the PAC. Nobody donating big money gives a **** which P5 we're in as much as they care about wins, losses, and potential/vision of the program.

2) Most of the alumni base went to school at Colorado when they were in the Big 12 in the first place. They knew we were playing in Manhattan Kansas every other year when they picked to go there, so now it's some massive deal breaker if they donate or not?

3) If your enthusiasm for going to games/supporting the program hinges on how pretty the cities of the conference foes are you either need your head examined or you're my wife. I'll take going to a game against a team with a passionate fanbase and thriving tailgating scene over looking at pretty trees in Palo Alto in an empty parking lot and stadium.

4) All this talk about the Big 12 being stable because there aren't poachable teams is ****ing smooth brained. The Big 12 is stable because of money. They have a deal. Major broadcasting companies are taking a hard look at profitability/cash flow and are cutting costs and spending more wisely. Texas and Florida are growing. They have substantially more passionate fanbases than California. California is losing professional teams because of sports apathy despite 69 billion people living there. Regardless of Big 12 media deal timing versus the PAC, the Big 12 is a better investment. Even these G5 teams that moved to the Big 12 that everyone is pooping on will be in better shape long term than most of the PAC 12 teams left in the dust. They've shown they want to/have won recently with less money and spotlight. There will be at least one that takes off from the extra money and spotlight they're getting the next several years.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. Back to the regularly scheduled smugness.

One thing to keep in mind as we talk about donors is that CU pretty much dismantled what donor culture it had after the 2003 scandal and then what was left fractured during the Barnett-Bohn-Hawkins-Embree saga.

Even if it didn't have all the anticipated impact, reconnecting with the west coast alums and donors was vital for the program the past decade and going forward.

 

[LesGrossman]

Youre drunk.

You’re

 

[#1 pick]

Mhver3 is a weird dude. I follow him, but take everything he says with a grain of salt. The WV guys may or may not have sources from way back when WVU was at the center of this whole thing. So it's worth giving it a read, and is probably a decent pulse check of what might be happening.

I do Flugar think is a much better source. He has nailed both USC and this. I would keep an eye on his stuff pretty closely. He might get it wrong, but for 'random internet' sourcing it hasn't been awful.

Fluguar doesn't run with all information. He's definitely the most journalist. He's not just asking around to board members and boosters in the know and getting information that might be questionable.

 

[#1 pick]

McMurphy said that the target is still the corner 4 schools on Sirius radio. It didn't seem like he had the most up to date information but it's McMurphy so it's trustworthy.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Canzano and Wilner: a summary of the past year:

 

[MiamiBuffs]

It was wise that Colorado was the first to make the move. I'd hate to be Utah or ASU right now. There are no guarantees they both get in.

GK really ****ed up. The very moment USC/UCLA announced that they were leaving, he should have been on the phone finding any way he could get Kansas, Okie St, Texas Tech and KSU at the very least to join. I'd argue TCU and Baylor as well.

You keep saying he ****ed up but you cant see the forest for the trees: money for college sports rights is drying up.

GK didnt get any good bids. Its not him, its the state of the business. Nine million people will cancel cable this year alone. Thats twenty thousand a day that were paying $7 month each just to ESPN….gone. People want to binge watch shows and movies on demand, not live TV. Thats where the money is going. Netflix and Amazon buying sports: hard pass. KU et al would do nothing.

As the money pot shrinks the rich will get richer NBA, NFL, SEC, B1G and the poor will get poorer.

And I got news for you, weve already been left behind because were NOT in the near $100m club with USC, UCLA, UT, and OU. Once the P2 shut everyone else out of the CFP or make their own playoff its game over.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I've asked this a half dozen times on here, but can anyone show if that increase was sustained? People getting excited about change is expected. But if it's a transitory increase, it doesn't really matter.

How did the IPF and Champions Center get built? Things we couldnt do when we were in the BigXII?

This data isnt public. But the signs are there if you look for them. If we hire Darian Hagan or Kordell Stewart for a 1 year $400k contract down the road it’ll be another sign.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

How did the IPF and Champions Center get built? Things we couldnt do when we were in the BigXII?

This data isnt public. But the signs are there if you look for them. If we hire Darian Hagan or Kordell Stewart for a 1 year $400k contract down the road it’ll be another sign.

Dude, I love ya, but how did you respond directly to this comment and still miss the question? I have, multiple times, accepted that increased donations largely funed those projects. The entire question, the whole damn thing, was how have the donations gone since then.

 

[PAHIBuff]

You keep saying he ****ed up but you cant see the forest for the trees: money for college sports rights is drying up.

GK didnt get any good bids. Its not him, its the state of the business. Nine million people will cancel cable this year alone. Thats twenty thousand a day that were paying $7 each just to ESPN….gone. People want to binge watch shows and movies on demand, not live TV. Thats where the money is going. Netflix and Amazon buying sports: hard pass.

As the money pot shrinks the rich will get richer NBA, NFL, SEC, B1G and the poor will get poorer.

And I got news for you, weve already been left behind because were NOT in the near $100m club with USC, UCLA, UT, and OU. Once the P2 shut everyone else out of the CFP or make their own playoff its game over.

MiamiBuffs: "You keep saying he ****ed up but you cant see the forest for the trees: money for college sports rights is drying up."

Which is exactly why it was critical that CU move to the B12. Climate Change analogy: CU just moved from Corpus Christi, TX to Leadville, CO.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

(curious hypo: If CU was bowl eligible, would they be able to negotiate their appearance fee? CP would bring a tone of exposure, advertising money)

Typically no. Bowl contracts are established years in advance between bowl corporation and the conference. The bowl corporation bases its payout to the conference on how much it negotiates with TV. Conferences typically share that bowl payout, March Madness, and so forth with all the members.

Based on the rumors posted here The BigXII will apparently give us ‘Full Member’ rights in 24-25 but not conference revenue until 25-26. So if CU makes the CFP or March Madness in 24-25 we get nada.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

How did the IPF and Champions Center get built? Things we couldnt do when we were in the BigXII?

This data isnt public. But the signs are there if you look for them. If we hire Darian Hagan or Kordell Stewart for a 1 year $400k contract down the road it’ll be another sign.

How do we know for sure that the IPF and Champions Center doesn't get built if we had stayed in the Big 12? The answer is we don't.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Dude, I love ya, but how did you respond directly to this comment and still miss the question? I have, multiple times, accepted that increased donations largely funed those projects. The entire question, the whole damn thing, was how have the donations gone since then.

No one can answer because the CU foundation is not public with those details. But those things I alluded to all happened while we were in the Pac 12. Ten years from now I suspect we will have an idea how things are going. The first warning sign will probably a freezing or reduction of the assistant coaches pool pay, an end to the hiring of so called football quality consultants.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

No one can answer because the CU foundation is not public with those details. But those things I alluded to all happened while we were in the Pac 12. Ten years from now I suspect we will have an idea how things are going. The first warning sign will probably a freezing or reduction of the assistant coaches pool pay, the hiring of so called football quality consultants.

So the only answer to what I actually asked is "I don't know."

 

[PAHIBuff]

It was wise that Colorado was the first to make the move. I'd hate to be Utah or ASU right now. There are no guarantees they both get in.

GK really ****ed up. The very moment USC/UCLA announced that they were leaving, he should have been on the phone finding any way he could get Kansas, Okie St, Texas Tech and KSU at the very least to join. I'd argue TCU and Baylor as well.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The UCF insider who put out the UCONN speculation rolled it back entirely the other day and said the presidents shut that down.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

With all this criticism of the current Big 12 and especially the 4 new schools for 2023, I am just going to repost what I wrote about 6 weeks ago regarding some of the G5 additions as well as TCU.

"G5 schools which have been at the very top of G5 arguably better than a couple dozen P5 programs recently. UCF has won 10 games 7 times over the past 16 years. Houston has 3 12-win seasons over the past 12 years. Cincinnati was in the CFP 2 years ago. TCU has won 11 games 4 times in the decade or so they've been in a P5 conference and played in the NC game last year."

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

The UCF insider who put out the UCONN speculation rolled it back entirely the other day and said the presidents shut that down.

Most of the conference additions have made sense, so president buy off has been straight forward. UCONN doesn't make sense to anyone but the folks in Bristol.

 

[Buffnik]

While money and stability almost certainly drove this, I do think that distribution uncertainty was a factor. When you're an Athletic Department which has to recruit nationally, it's vital that your games are accessible for HS players, potential college transfers and parents / influencers across the country. The Big 12 could promise that and verify it while the Pac-12 was still saying to be patient and hope / trust.

That same dynamic applies to Oregon, so the Ducks being on the move is something I'm expecting.