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CU in the Pac-12
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But then we wouldn't be considered an elite academic institution. :rolling_eyes:
It takes a village to do it right. The $ handshake from willing boosters is a part of it. Assistant coaches who aren't afraid to get a little dirty are part. An admin that remains aloof is a part. Etc. CU has never done this stuff super well. That's not feigning some moral superiority because I don't think we've been perfect over the years. But I'm not sure we have all the pieces in place to pull the most elite recruits these days. Winning would certainly make it easier of course.
No that really doesn't help...but thanks anyway.
Bottom line is Dr. Phil and BB and MB ran the ship aground. They ****ed it up catastrophically. It will take a lot of hard work and support...and based on past experience, the gig has been to just do enough to look like support is being given. Dr. Phil has made his living feeding at the public trough and by being a political hack. Success, accountability and consequences of failure are as foreign to him as Swahili.
Old miss signs three #1 position players in last years recruiting class and no one really bats an eye.
I'll take the sanctions. It'll be easier to get out of that hole than the one we are in.
And let's not pretend cu never had players that took hundred dollar handshakes. We had a lot of guys from the inner city living in Boulder during the heyday. Boulder had always been prohibitively expensive.
rolandftw
Club Member
I don't know what people were expecting. Head coaches that take on a huge rebuilding project, typically don't have much success the first year. You obviously would like CU to be more competitive in Conference play, but the fact that they haven't been thus far probably indicates there is a talent gap. One that Coach Mac and his staff, need time to shorten.
We hired an SEC guy.
There's a lot of things wrong with you people. This is only one of the things, obviously, you people.
o_robbie
I don't think before I post
I think we try to take as many character risk guys as possible. Giving the scholly to a guy who isn't going to cut it doesn't help anyway. Might as well take shots at 5 or 6 guys each year and hope that 25 percent of them make it and then give out a 1 year scholly to a PWO SR/JR. Then stay in contact with the guys who couldn't get in and try to become a destination for guys who need second chances.
The other part of the equation is we need to consistently play our RS JR/SR vs other teams Sophs and RS Freshman in the hopes that our experience will help against their better athletic ability. That is a big reason I wasn't happy with playing our young QB last night. We need to get as many 5 year players on the field as we can. It doesn't help us to waist a year when we are going to lose anyway. I don't believe the benefit of game experience as a true Freshman is any better than that of a RS Fresh.
We have gone the character risk route as have a number of other schools. It rarely works out.
Our roster is so thin right now that we can't even worry about getting star type players. We have got to get enough quality kids who can stick to put 22 guys out there who belong in the PAC which is not something we do right now.
The attrition rate for CU football has been documented clearly on this site by others, I'm not going to repeat it. What I will say is that we can't afford to have high percentages of our recruiting classes not contributing on the field. Whether this is due to not being good enough or due to them not being here long enough to contribute doesn't matter. If we are going to get to the point where we aren't embarrassed by the majority of our conference opponents we have to have classes with the majority of our recruits contributing.
Our roster is so thin right now that we can't even worry about getting star type players. We have got to get enough quality kids who can stick to put 22 guys out there who belong in the PAC which is not something we do right now.
The attrition rate for CU football has been documented clearly on this site by others, I'm not going to repeat it. What I will say is that we can't afford to have high percentages of our recruiting classes not contributing on the field. Whether this is due to not being good enough or due to them not being here long enough to contribute doesn't matter. If we are going to get to the point where we aren't embarrassed by the majority of our conference opponents we have to have classes with the majority of our recruits contributing.
Ultimately this is where success or failure will rest.
You can't teach a kid to have blazing speed or athleticism but you can develop linement, especially offensive linemen. It isn't instant but there are lots of examples of kids who weren't highly recruited who came in and hit the weights for a couple years while working on technique an ende up as solid starting offensive linemen.
Got past that and if you have a decent OL then those RBs and QBs start to look a lot better. At that point then you have something to sell to the more physically gifted skill position guys.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
We've seen where the character issues route takes us. It rots the entire program. The absolute last thing this program needs is the piss poor attitudes and inevitable attrition that "character issues" bring.
2 huge problems we have to contend with.
1) our facilities are now at the bottom of the conference. If not in overall quantity, definitely in age. Every program has spent the new revenue dollars on some kind of new football specific facility. UCLA is about to break ground on theirs, and they are the only one that has not yet. We must catch up with our facilities upgrades. Kids like the new shiny locker rooms and the leather adorned meeting rooms. We want to be college big boys, time to act like it.
2) The conference is improving. I think in 1 or 2 years we really will be mentioned with the SEC in terms of overall conference strength. USC will be back quickly. UCLA is strong. Utah is catching up. Stanford, Oregon, and Washington are powers. WSU has the pirate and they are looking good. Cal and AZ may be the closest to us in terms of record, but they beat us in talent by a wide margin. The 5 seasons of Hawk recruiting WAC players has put us in a gigantic hole. The roster basically has to be rebuilt from scratch.
1) our facilities are now at the bottom of the conference. If not in overall quantity, definitely in age. Every program has spent the new revenue dollars on some kind of new football specific facility. UCLA is about to break ground on theirs, and they are the only one that has not yet. We must catch up with our facilities upgrades. Kids like the new shiny locker rooms and the leather adorned meeting rooms. We want to be college big boys, time to act like it.
2) The conference is improving. I think in 1 or 2 years we really will be mentioned with the SEC in terms of overall conference strength. USC will be back quickly. UCLA is strong. Utah is catching up. Stanford, Oregon, and Washington are powers. WSU has the pirate and they are looking good. Cal and AZ may be the closest to us in terms of record, but they beat us in talent by a wide margin. The 5 seasons of Hawk recruiting WAC players has put us in a gigantic hole. The roster basically has to be rebuilt from scratch.
CU was not as ready as Utah. They have beautiful nice facilities. Utah now has that signature win to really get their program going. They will be able to recruit even better now. CU maybe should have gone the WAC or Mountain West route. Lower our expectations as fans.
BuffNut99
Club Member
People, please quit freaking out. We have the right coach and staff in place; we haven't been able to truthfully say that for a long time. We have to trust that our new AD will get facilities on track. In the meantime, the product on the field is the direct result of years of dartboard throwing by our two previous coaches and the ADmins that supported them. This isn't the NFL where you can cut everyone that sucks and sign a bunch of Free agents; Mac & Co. are dealing with a talent deficit. This is a process, and we are seeing improvement.
Absolutely not. We would have been in an even worse situation. Broken football and no money. If you think we would have pulled out of this tailspin by going to the MW or the WAC you are fooling yourself. We need the $$$ to build the facilities. Once we break ground watch for recruiting to take off, and for wins to start coming. Until that happens, its going to take some coaching magic.
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
We are in the middle of a four to six year transition between conferences. Just look at what OU and OSU had to go through in the first four to six years in the Big 12 South.
Once the Big 12 recruited kids are gone from the roster, we should be better off. Remember we played more cold weather teams in the Big 12 compared to the Pac-12. Utah already played a good mixture of warm and cold weather teams in their MWC days so the are ahead of CU at this point. OU and OSU had to change everything since they weren't playing cold weather Big 8 teams anymore.
And also we need a difference maker at QB. Utah appears to have that in Wilson.
Once the Big 12 recruited kids are gone from the roster, we should be better off. Remember we played more cold weather teams in the Big 12 compared to the Pac-12. Utah already played a good mixture of warm and cold weather teams in their MWC days so the are ahead of CU at this point. OU and OSU had to change everything since they weren't playing cold weather Big 8 teams anymore.
And also we need a difference maker at QB. Utah appears to have that in Wilson.
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
CU fans knew better than Utah fans on what to expect out of the Pac-12. They were in shock about how much more competitive the Pac-12 was and we really drove home that point when we beat them in SLC in '11. They could be due for another shock when they play Oregon.
Plus Utah is able to recruit JUCOs and get them into school more easily than CU. If CU could really get JUCO players into school, that'd be a start. Some key players on the 2001 Big 12 Championship team were JUCO transfers from other schools such as Chris Brown and Bobby P at QB.
We suck because we have a MWC administration instead of a BCS administration. That is why I took the bold step and said that CU belonged in the MWC instead of the Pac-12 or the Big 12. That is the same point that Kiz from the D-Post made about CU the day or two before the move out of the Big 12 was announced.
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
Good stuff Nash. I eagerly await checking this thread tomorrow afternoonish. Bold indeed.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we'd be so much better off forging ahead with facilities, etc. had we placed ourselves in a conference that would have provided around 1/20th of the $$$ the Pac will be providing.
Rob Peter and pay Paul... Yea, we might see more $ from the Pac12 - sad thing is, we lose it on ticket sales at game time.
The point I am trying to make is it seems as though Utah was a little more prepared to enter BIG BOY football. They had a plan in place, facility up grades planed and in place. In the mean time CU is as usual going about this whole transition in "reaction mode" nothing seems to have been planned out except where to deposit these big Pac12 revenue checks.
BTW - CU was already playing BIG BOY football. That is what adds sting to it all.
This. Dropping down to a mid-major conference would have been the dumbest thing ever. Everyone's cracking heads to get a seat at the table, and we drop out? Quit abandoning reason and settle down for the long haul.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we'd obviously have better attendance for the likes of San Diego State and Utah State.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
This pretty much sums up everything wrong with CU Athletics, but football in particular
NYbuffDIEHARD
Active Member
Totally agree here, "soul searching" is meaningless. I know this is a message board and meant for discussion but we really are a sad buch. we re-hash the same thing over and over. When we entered the PAC we knew it was not going to be pretty, no one could have predicted just how useless Jon Embry would have turned out to be. I mean I think we knew he wasn't the guy but his failures are staggering and we are still feeling the effects today.
Insert Mac, he has the right approach and the right experience to get us back to respectability. There is no "soul searching" needed what is needed is time and some patience now that we have a staff and a coach who by all accounts knows what he is doing. Let's justlet this season playout, we have a talented freshman QB who will take his lumps but can you imagine how good he can be in say year 3? or even year 2? I think we sneak out 1 conference win this year and a 3rd win this week and 4-8 looks a hell of a lot better than 1-11. Keep the faith and be patient as hard as it is to do. Go Buffs.