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CU Perspective on CSU's Claims to the Denver Market
- Thread starter BSUTOP25
- Start date
We can talk about Webb, lots of good new info there. How about that great 4* recruit who just commited this weekend. Lots of other schools swooping in to grab our assistants since they have done such a great job, lots of guys lining up though to join the staff.
It's the friggin off-season, what else do we talk about. Nobody willing to step up and run a UHC, beer thread has run it's course as have the movie and music threads.
We could rehash PAC12 expansion again, the merits of the star system, how about recruiting territories, maybe even do another thread about returning to the wishbone.
GIA hasn't even been around to save us.
Why the **** haven't I changed my settings to block your posts? All great questions.
The sooner the better.
Thank you.
This is just giving up.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
If you're the Big 12, aren't Houston and Cincinnati the logical ways you go if you expand? Not that they lost the entirety of the Houston MSA when A&M left, but they'd get some of that back with UH, and you're getting an up and coming football program that may keep Tom Herman with a move to the Big 10.....errr 12. In terms of Cincy, you're getting a small piece of the Cincy metro, but you've giving WVU a travel partner, and that might be just as key with them as anything. CSU could be a backfill for one of those in the American, but they don't make sense in the Power 5 anywhere. The Pac 12 doesn't need to expand, and there are about 30 options for the Big 12 that make more sense than little brother.
DiggerBuffs
Well-Known Member
The overselling of the CSU program based off one great year and two mediocre is laughable. So is the underselling and positive impact CSU moving to the Big XII for CU fans.
I have heard valid arguments for the inclusion of CSU (strong Denver fan base, athletic improvements both in terms of facilities and on-field and academics on par with other Big XII members). I have heard valid arguments why other teams are bad options (Houston would take away recruits on a larger scale and fans watch UT football first either way, Boise has **** academics and very little financial backing; BYU TV deal and older athlete and both being a time zone over-not a big deal since they dealt with this with CU but valid reason for Cali schools).
I have also heard valid reasons to choose other teams over CSU (not being ranked, short term success in key sports, **** attendance even with improved product, average capacity though it has large areas to add 10k in stands quickly and average endowment) while Cincy and Houston have very large endowments and bring better TV markets since Denver TV market is not football crazy for college athletics. Memphis also is slightly above all things than CSU.
I look at it on both sides. I think having CSU in Big XII would add validity to annual game and add some college excitement. It would also improve the picture of college football having 2 P5 teams in our state. I also look at CSU being below many of these other teams on long term on field performance. There are valid reasons for both sides.
The most sense to me is to take BYU, Houston, Cincy, Memphis, Boise, CSU; so CSU is far down the notch.
Either way **** CSU!
I have heard valid arguments for the inclusion of CSU (strong Denver fan base, athletic improvements both in terms of facilities and on-field and academics on par with other Big XII members). I have heard valid arguments why other teams are bad options (Houston would take away recruits on a larger scale and fans watch UT football first either way, Boise has **** academics and very little financial backing; BYU TV deal and older athlete and both being a time zone over-not a big deal since they dealt with this with CU but valid reason for Cali schools).
I have also heard valid reasons to choose other teams over CSU (not being ranked, short term success in key sports, **** attendance even with improved product, average capacity though it has large areas to add 10k in stands quickly and average endowment) while Cincy and Houston have very large endowments and bring better TV markets since Denver TV market is not football crazy for college athletics. Memphis also is slightly above all things than CSU.
I look at it on both sides. I think having CSU in Big XII would add validity to annual game and add some college excitement. It would also improve the picture of college football having 2 P5 teams in our state. I also look at CSU being below many of these other teams on long term on field performance. There are valid reasons for both sides.
The most sense to me is to take BYU, Houston, Cincy, Memphis, Boise, CSU; so CSU is far down the notch.
Either way **** CSU!
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You left out the relegation rules.
lvbuff
Well-Known Member
This thread is stupid. When was the last time CSU won a conference championship? I hear this same old tired song over and over from their delusional fans. Las fall the friend of an uncle who is influential in the BIG 10 said that he was going to pull some strings to get CSU there. What a bunch of ****tards. Now it is the BIG 12? No ****ing chance in hell. **** CSU.
The local news this morning ran a story about CSU lobbying the Big XII. The AD said they don't have to lobby anyone though since they are the strongest AD in the MWC, which made me spit out my coffee. I guess if you are only hanging your hat on your women's basketball team and the women's volleyball team, both of whom got beat in the first rounds of their respective tournaments...
Colorado is a front-runner state. Not sure when this happened, maybe it's always been this way.
People always say that the Broncos are the only ones who can make it through bad years, but they've had more Super Bowl appearances than losing seasons since Pat Bowlen bought the team. We don't really know what would happen if they had a sustained period of irrelevance.
The flip side of this is that there's really no way of saying what the state would do if CU started winning again on a regular basis. It's easy to say that Denver's a pro sports town only, but it's really hard to know for sure when it hasn't been tested consistently in over 20 years.
People always say that the Broncos are the only ones who can make it through bad years, but they've had more Super Bowl appearances than losing seasons since Pat Bowlen bought the team. We don't really know what would happen if they had a sustained period of irrelevance.
The flip side of this is that there's really no way of saying what the state would do if CU started winning again on a regular basis. It's easy to say that Denver's a pro sports town only, but it's really hard to know for sure when it hasn't been tested consistently in over 20 years.
I could give a **** about CSU.
Kuratz
Well-Known Member
CSU would undoubtedly get its ass kicked in all sports (yep even volleyball) for quite a while before they could compete in a P5. Even then they won't deliver the Denver market unless they catch lightning in a bottle while the Broncos are down.
However I do think that an invite for them would be a positive thing for CU. I would love to see the dynamic develop into a Georgia-GT type of rivalry with games on campus, and hopefully by then have a primary rivalry with one of the big guns in the Pac. Dominate them in most years but get the credit of a P5 win and have a fun secondary rivalry to look forward to. Either that or start scheduling ****braska on a regular basis. Not having a rival sucks.
However I do think that an invite for them would be a positive thing for CU. I would love to see the dynamic develop into a Georgia-GT type of rivalry with games on campus, and hopefully by then have a primary rivalry with one of the big guns in the Pac. Dominate them in most years but get the credit of a P5 win and have a fun secondary rivalry to look forward to. Either that or start scheduling ****braska on a regular basis. Not having a rival sucks.
I have never understood the reasoning/logic of "bringing "X Market" eyeballs/viewership". Are people in California more inclined to watch a CU game now they they are in the p12? Doubtful.
Are people in the Denver MSA media market going to watch an Oregon State vs. Arizona game now that CU is in the P12? Doubtful.
I don't get it. How does conference affiliation bring a market?
Are people in the Denver MSA media market going to watch an Oregon State vs. Arizona game now that CU is in the P12? Doubtful.
I don't get it. How does conference affiliation bring a market?
UNT in my backyard has no designs on ever being a P5 quite happy with their place in CFB. Even they had the foresight to build 50K seats at Apogee Stadium its a nice stadium looks similar to the new CSU stadium. It has the "eagle wing" stands in the foreground, I take the little guy 2 or 3 times a year.
It would be a lot better if more schools embraced what they are and THEN made decisions with that overarching context in mind. Quality over quantity can be a great thing and a great experience. Small, but high quality on-campus stadium. Realistic scheduling, focusing on local/regional schools. Emphasis on the old school/authentic charm and fun of amateur athletics and the good it brings to the students and the community. It doesn't have to be about D1 championships, media, merchandise sales, TV contracts, money, prestige, etc.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Actually, A lot of my viewing choices are conference driven. I absolutely watch more Pac 12 teams than any other conference.
See, that's my point. Yes, you will have the serious CU football fans tune in to p12 games that they would not have watched if CU were not in the p12, but that is a million miles removed from "bringing the Denver market". 10 guys on Allbuffs tuning into a WSU/Arizona game is meaningless. How many people in the "Denver Market" are making that same decision if they didn't go to CU?
Not sure I understand what you are saying. So CU fans, who used to pay attention to Big XII games and now switched and are watching Pac-12 games instead doesn't compute to "bringing the Denver market"? We are down, no one denies that, but the Pac-12 is getting way more attention out here than it used to because of our conference membership. When CU is more competitive in football, then you would definitely get more eyes watching USC/Arizona because of the implications it would have on the Buffs.
That's exactly what I'm saying. people throw around The Denver Market. We are talking demographics, advertising, etc. the Denver market is millions of people. But you are not capturing the Denver market, just a few hardcore CU football fans.
Tell me what kind of share a random P12 game has in the Denver market. It's nothing.
Capturing the Denver Market isn't about people here tuning into a WSU/AZ game. It's about having a larger audience of people, relative to the alternative cities, watching a game that has CU in it, especially when CU returns to respectability.
CSU playing in the B12 would bring more Denver eyeballs to confernce games, especially those involving CSU directly. A bigger issue might be giving the alumni and fanbases of the B12 schools who live in the Denver area a stronger tie to their programs. There are a lot of those people in the Denver area. When their school comes to Colorado to play CSU you would get alumni gatherings, tailgates, etc. The big thing these offer would be the opportunity for the schools to push for more donations from these people.
The problem comes in balancing the value of these revenues against the cost of including a school in sharing the media money. Based on their past history I simply don't see any scenario in which adding CSU increases conference revenues close to enough to justify the cost to the conference.
CU is a different animal. There are some significant alumni numbers from PAC12 schools in Colorado. At conference home games we have seen some substantial alumni activities for other schools in Denver and Boulder which I'm sure included invitations to open wallets. CU has also travelled well filling a lot of seats in other PAC stadiums. In the past when CU was winning enough to be relevant it was a program that tended to draw solid TV ratings nationally. Much easier to make an arguement that CU provides value to the PAC.
Good post.
I might be missing something, and if I was in charge of a conference, CSU wouldn't be near the top of my list, but would CSU going to the Big12 be a bad thing for CU? I would think having 2 Colorado universities in P5 conferences would be a good thing. More legitimacy to the argument that Colorado is a football state.
Denver's transient nature creates a misnomer when talking about the size of our media market, but Denver/Boulder/Ft. Fun are all beautiful places. I would think, much like away fans love coming to Boulder, the Big12 fans would enjoy flying to Denver and making the voyage north.
And for those that claim CSU shouldn't get a look based on how bad (historically) they are, I would point out that I miss playing teams like Kansas, Kansas Juco and Iowa State ever year. Adding winning programs isn't the only criteria for expansion. The world needs ditch diggers too.
That's an interesting thought. Would Gary PAtterson still be at TCU or Whittingham at Utah if those schools hadn't moved up to P5 from G5?
The biggest slice of CU's out of state alumni come from California. I want to say when I was there it was 20% of all out of state students on campus. Those students used to jokingly refer to the campus as Univ of California at Boulder. So, being on TV in those markets has two effects; its likely to continue the pipeline of out of state tuition payers. And its likely to raise engagement with alumni to spur giving.
It depends on the ratings. The TV stations will put on whatever gets the most eyeballs which leads to the highest ad rates. Growing up in Florida in the 80s which conferences were on TV the most? The SEC and the Big10. Why? Because the Big10 had more
With Denver I think its a toss up. I suspect there are a lot of Pac10 Alums in our market. We know, from basketball ticket sales, that there are a ton of KU alums and from football ticket sales that there are a lot of NU and OU alums in Denver. So, we could deduce from that they the BigXII would get good ratings here. You have to look at the local affiliates and what they chose to put on. Not ESPN or the cable networks.
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I think there's no way in hell those two would still be there if TCU and UU were G5 programs.