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CU's Rightful Place in College Football

Buffnik said:
Yes.

I'm not going into a single game expecting the worst.

Last year, we beat who we were supposed to. That bar gets raised in 2014.

And we should certainly NEVER expect to lose a home game.

I'm also sick of making excuses when CU loses a recruiting battle over a priority prospect. That cannot happen here.

It's past time to stop acting like victims and losers.
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Good thread Nik. I have been thinking on your recruiting comment in particular.

I just read on Allbuffs that Austin Seibert K/P gave a verbal to the Sooners. This kids film had him kicking it out of the endzone from the 30 multiple times. Imagine a leg like that at Folsom. In the past losing him could have been responded to with a "good luck to him", "shucky darn", "too bad" or some similar response. So today I just want to say - I HATE the fact that he gave a verbal to the Sooners. This really sucks, I thought he was a priority prospect and I really wanted a big leg back at CU. We are a top 25 all time program, boast a Guy award winner and have a great field for a kicker. Further I thought it really sucked to lose out Stafon Diggs and Kalen Ballage too over the past few years.

I am an angry fan. I am sick and tired of losing. I hate upstarts like Baylor, KSU, and others that have shown up at the party late and think they are all that. I hate losing top recruits. I still hate the Huskers more than any other team besides the Golden Goobers in Southbend. We need a serious rival, not those lammie lovers. We need to target someone big like Mac did and go after them and not be satisfied until we beat them bad. And the fact that more lammies have been drafted so far this year than Buffs, Suckity, sucks, sucks, sucks. And I hate it.

A change in fan attitude here may not make much of a difference in how quickly the Buffs make the long climb back, but I'll sure feel a whole lot better. We just need Blaise back because no one could roast a troll like she could.

Oh, and while I'm at it I want Dechaun Holiday on this team. No ifs, ands, or buts. No excuses. I want him.
 
This happens every spring...May is the Allbuffs rut season.

[video=youtube_share;IaIrCMIe01k]http://youtu.be/IaIrCMIe01k[/video]
 
F.I.M. said:
Good thread Nik. I have been thinking on your recruiting comment in particular.

I just read on Allbuffs that Austin Seibert K/P gave a verbal to the Sooners. This kids film had him kicking it out of the endzone from the 30 multiple times. Imagine a leg like that at Folsom. In the past losing him could have been responded to with a "good luck to him", "shucky darn", "too bad" or some similar response. So today I just want to say - I HATE the fact that he gave a verbal to the Sooners. This really sucks, I thought he was a priority prospect and I really wanted a big leg back at CU. We are a top 25 all time program, boast a Guy award winner and have a great field for a kicker. Further I thought it really sucked to lose out Stafon Diggs and Kalen Ballage too over the past few years.

I am an angry fan. I am sick and tired of losing. I hate upstarts like Baylor, KSU, and others that have shown up at the party late and think they are all that. I hate losing top recruits. I still hate the Huskers more than any other team besides the Golden Goobers in Southbend. We need a serious rival, not those lammie lovers. We need to target someone big like Mac did and go after them and not be satisfied until we beat them bad. And the fact that more lammies have been drafted so far this year than Buffs, Suckity, sucks, sucks, sucks. And I hate it.

A change in fan attitude here may not make much of a difference in how quickly the Buffs make the long climb back, but I'll sure feel a whole lot better. We just need Blaise back because no one could roast a troll like she could.

Oh, and while I'm at it I want Dechaun Holiday on this team. No ifs, ands, or buts. No excuses. I want him.
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:nod:

I think Diego has settled in as a K rather that a P.

Neinas needs to step up his game and get us a top punter this cycle. More than any position group, there is absolutely no reason to lose out on kicking prospects when you're the top program at altitude with our history of national awards, all-conference performers and NFL success by CU punters & kickers.
 
All I want is to live consistently in the polls, have the occasional Top 10 finish and win a conference title every now and again.
 
I never realized how few Big 8/12 championships the other pac 12 schools had until flukes posted this. Those other teams sucked
 
Something that outsiders seem not to realize is just how ****ing hard it was to win a Big 8 title all those years. Getting over on both Oklahoma and Nebraska to win a conference title took one hell of a special season. Kind of like the Big 10 in that era with Ohio State and Michigan. Finishing 3rd a lot of times meant that your team was one of the better teams around but college football was so regional that it didn't make noise across the country... especially since there were so few bowl games that a 3rd place finish in the Big 8 likely meant your team's season ended in November.
 
Buffnik said:
Something that outsiders seem not to realize is just how ****ing hard it was to win a Big 8 title all those years. Getting over on both Oklahoma and Nebraska to win a conference title took one hell of a special season. Kind of like the Big 10 in that era with Ohio State and Michigan. Finishing 3rd a lot of times meant that your team was one of the better teams around but college football was so regional that it didn't make noise across the country... especially since there were so few bowl games that a 3rd place finish in the Big 8 likely meant your team's season ended in November.
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UW fans like to ignore this when they compare programs
 
Buffnik said:
Something that outsiders seem not to realize is just how ****ing hard it was to win a Big 8 title all those years. Getting over on both Oklahoma and Nebraska to win a conference title took one hell of a special season. Kind of like the Big 10 in that era with Ohio State and Michigan. Finishing 3rd a lot of times meant that your team was one of the better teams around but college football was so regional that it didn't make noise across the country... especially since there were so few bowl games that a 3rd place finish in the Big 8 likely meant your team's season ended in November.
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CU finished 3rd in the polls one year.


Behind OU and kNU. In an 8 league team. Not a 14 team SEC. ****ing nuts.
 
1971 Final AP Poll

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Buffnik said:
Something that outsiders seem not to realize is just how ****ing hard it was to win a Big 8 title all those years. Getting over on both Oklahoma and Nebraska to win a conference title took one hell of a special season. Kind of like the Big 10 in that era with Ohio State and Michigan. Finishing 3rd a lot of times meant that your team was one of the better teams around but college football was so regional that it didn't make noise across the country... especially since there were so few bowl games that a 3rd place finish in the Big 8 likely meant your team's season ended in November.
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Nebraska, yes. Oklahoma was a 7-9 win Gary Gibbs team in Mac's hey day. they were losing to also mediocre David McWilliams Texas teams, juggernaut Bugeaters....and us. Mac never beat Barry Switzer, just to say it.

to me, CU's rightful place is top 25 program in a great town in a great state ....we're aren't Alabama or USC or cheating all the time. we have our own identity as a school with some integrity that succeeds in sports as well. a so-called public ivy once upon....

top 25 program of all time.

i do agree it's time to get back on the horse. i agree about that...but as head over heels most of AB was about the Embree hire....hard to trust AB either.
 
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Mick Ronson said:
Nebraska, yes. Oklahoma was a 7-9 win Gary Gibbs team in Mac's hey day. they were losing to also mediocre David McWilliams Texas teams, juggernaut Bugeaters....and us. Mac never beat Barry Switzer, just to say it.

to me, CU's rightful place is top 25 program in a great town in a great state ....we're aren't Alabama or USC or cheating all the time. we have our own identity as a school with some integrity that succeeds in sports as well. a so-called public ivy once upon....

top 25 program of all time.

i do agree it's time to get back on the horse. i agree about that...but as head over heels most of AB was about the Embree hire....hard to trust AB either.
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The Oklahoma thing during the CU heyday is a big reason why CU rose to national prominence. That's kind of my point. I'm talking about around a 50 year period, during which CU was mostly an vastly underrated program that didn't make a lot of national noise due to the 2 juggernauts above us in the Big 8.

I completely agree with you on CU being a Top 25 program, not among the Tier 1 elites. Buffs rightful place in the Pac-12 South is behind USC, pulling in Top 35 recruiting classes with the occasional Top 15, and winning a South title or two a decade. Most years appearing in the Top 25 and winning about 70% of games on average.
 
It's going to take a while to get calibrated in our division. IMO UCLA and ASU are pulling away in recruiting, and USC recruiting will never be anything less than above average. I think you always start improving from a stark admission of where you are. CU needs to focus like a laser on beating AZ and Utah. Start beating the teams that are closest to you in quality. Climb the ladder a rung at a time.
 
nik, I get the premise of your original post but CU wasn't good enough for long enough on the national stage to be one of those classic programs you can just "add water to" and rev up from mediocrity or disaster, a la Alabama, Michigan, USC, Texas. Unfortunately. I see CU more as Washington from the Don James era, BYU from its "great QBs/MNC period, or maybe a bit of Tennessee from the Fullmer era.
 
PAHIBuff said:
It's going to take a while to get calibrated in our division. IMO UCLA and ASU are pulling away in recruiting, and USC recruiting will never be anything less than above average. I think you always start improving from a stark admission of where you are. CU needs to focus like a laser on beating AZ and Utah. Start beating the teams that are closest to you in quality. Climb the ladder a rung at a time.
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UCLA has always pulled in top talent, why haven't they been on the same level as USC? There are a whole helluva of complaints about the UCLA AD and their lack of spending for football. What happens when Mora leaves?

Graham at ASU has filled a lot of his classes with JUCO's, with new NCAA rules on JUCOs that heavily increases their competition for recruits. They don't have all that good of facilities. Can they keep the momentum when Graham leaves and we're showing progress on the field? We'll see.

What we need to do is just show progress on the field this fall and recruiting will take off. We will have the facilities to compete, an AD who has been talking conference titles since the day he arrived, and a HC who knows what he's doing. The big question is the assistant coaches. We all know CU attracts talent when we show some progress. Win 5-6 games this fall and be in all of them (sans Oregon and maybe another) and we will see the recruiting gap close big time.
 
PAHIBuff said:
nik, I get the premise of your original post but CU wasn't good enough for long enough on the national stage to be one of those classic programs you can just "add water to" and rev up from mediocrity or disaster, a la Alabama, Michigan, USC, Texas. Unfortunately. I see CU more as Washington from the Don James era, BYU from its "great QBs/MNC period, or maybe a bit of Tennessee from the Fullmer era.
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Where was Nik comparing us to a blue blood? Didn't get that feel at all
 
Mora hasn't left yet. Maybe UCLA steps up with USC falling a bit. Their AD is trying, but their fan base is weak.

Asu will probably take a step back. Do you trust the CU admin to fill in when that happens?

And the facilities are still in talks. Until a contract is awarded and ground is broken and construction has started it is hot air. Unless we can get this facilities built up sooner than later it doesn't really help. A lot of our peers will be done or nearly done within a year, possibly two. We will catch on when it's near the end (think bball), but not leaps and bounds until then.

That is unless our coaches get a lot better at recruiting without the facilities in place and history has shown they are struggling, especially in state talent.
 
They need to get going if they really plan to be finished by next August. I suppose it's possible to complete a $143M project in 15 months, but it just sounds really fast for something this size.
 
NMBuff said:
Mora hasn't left yet. Maybe UCLA steps up with USC falling a bit. Their AD is trying, but their fan base is weak. [1]

Asu will probably take a step back. Do you trust the CU admin to fill in when that happens? [2]

And the facilities are still in talks. Until a contract is awarded and ground is broken and construction has started it is hot air. Unless we can get this facilities built up sooner than later it doesn't really help. A lot of our peers will be done or nearly done within a year, possibly two. We will catch on when it's near the end (think bball), but not leaps and bounds until then. [3]

That is unless our coaches get a lot better at recruiting without the facilities in place and history has shown they are struggling, especially in state talent. [4]
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1. I believe Mora has said he wants to coach in the NFL, he'll be out of there sooner rather than later.
2. I trust RG and Benson, yes.
3. No, it's not hot air. You're underestimating how nice they will be (quality vs. size due to lack of space) and the timeline. I believe we are still on time for a Fall 2015 opening, and that is heavily being pitched to 2015 recruits.
4. They do need to improve their recruiting, but they also need to show progress on the field via a bowl game or at least winning 5 games while staying competitive in all games. Even pulling an upset against UCLA or ASU would catch recruits attention. Sell all you want, but recruits will in most cases want to see progress on the field. In-state, that'll go as CU goes. They've been front and center for our **** football for as long as they can remember. They've been front and center to John Henderson's articles, sports talk ****ting on CU, and **** talking to CU from their peers. MacIntyre is well-liked by coaches, but we need to produce wins.
 
All coaches are temporary positions. Mac Brown thought he was fine.

How many coaches end up in their dream job? That's how I hope Boyle sticks around. More money, more exposure, better competition and the list goes on and on.

If you think MM would stay of the NFL came calling or someone offering 4MM a year for a program not in the dumps that's mostly wild speculation.
 
I thought you were talking about trusting RG and Benson to either:

1. Offer a bigger salary but one that won't bankrupt the AD
2. Hire a new coach that is qualified and fits CU

We won't be able to compete with the SEC powers or the NFL, but if either of those happens then we are in a whole helluva better position now and are an attractive school for prospective coaches, UW when Sark left would probably be a good example of this.
 
NMBuff said:
All coaches are temporary positions. Mac Brown thought he was fine.

How many coaches end up in their dream job? That's how I hope Boyle sticks around. More money, more exposure, better competition and the list goes on and on.

If you think MM would stay of the NFL came calling or someone offering 4MM a year for a program not in the dumps that's mostly wild speculation.
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If other schools with better resources come calling, or the NFL with a job that is a step up which would have to be at least a coordinator job, that will mean that MM has got us to the point where we are winning at least 8-9 games a year and going to decent bowls (not the New Mexico or Las Vegas.)

If that is the case then 3 things will also be in place. One is the the school will be in a better situation to offer a more competitive (still not equal but closer) counter offer to stay, two is that if he is being that successfull he will be less motivated to leave, and three is that if he leaves we will be in a position that will be of interest to a higher quality of potential candidates than we have been in the past.
 
I think this thread is funny. The title sounds like we are a displaced heir to some throne looking for a triumphant return. Unfortunately, college football is not about being anointed. I understand 'Nik trying to fire up the old juices but CU has to earn its place, no one is going to restore us to some place. I have to laugh at 'Tini (or sometimes cry), he immediately resorts to telling us that UCLA or UA or ASU are all just flash in the pans. Sorry to break it to you kid but CU is in the same boat - we have our flashes but they are not sustainable. Why you ask? Because we do not have a strong enough fan base. Don't get me wrong, we have good fans. We just don't have enough of them.

We don't have enough people with the passion. The is why I think Community Pride/Regional Pride is so important and CU has to start cultivating it again ( I know Rich George gets that). Here is some food for thought - only ~20% of the Season ticket holders are actually CU alums. And you know what, that is not so different than other places. People adopt a team all of the time. Texas, Nebraska, etc gets tons of support from people who never attended the school.

Anyway - I could write a book (or a long article) about this but CU has done well when they have lucked into a good coach but do not have the resources to muscle through when they have not so good of a coach. Places like Alabama, USC, Texas, OU, Ohio State win national championships under multiple coaches because the have the support to stay relevant even during the down times.

I think Rich George has started things in the right direction by getting the facilities off the ground and by connecting again with the community power brokers (people with money) and convincing them that strong CU athletics are good for the community. That philosophy needs to start carrying over to the rest of the CU campus - because that is where a big problem exists.
 
I'm pretending they're flashes in the pan? I'm simply asking if they can keep the momentum going. It's no different than us, but on the same token some here act like CU stands no chance.
 
'Tini said:
I'm pretending they're flashes in the pan? I'm simply asking if they can keep the momentum going. It's no different than us, but on the same token some here act like CU stands no chance.
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There was a good point made about improving the base.

Part of that is making it a great game experience (winning + nice facilities at a price that feels like a good value for the money).

Part of that is doing a good job on season tickets, customer service, transit and parking for Folsom.

Part of that is PR and marketing to build the brand within the state.

Part of that is doing a much better job of connecting with the alumni base, including nurturing relationships with young alums.

Part of that is connecting much better to the community and CO businesses.

Part of that is creating a consistent donor base, including younger fans who may only do $10 a month right now.

CU has never done a good job on any of these things. If RG can build all of this, then CU can become the type of program that weathers a scandal or bad coaching hire or economic downturn in the state or whatever. Until then, CU football will always be a bit of a house of cards. Natural advantages that give us very high highs and circumstances that give us very low lows. There's a lot to be done to get to where the program is capable of being.
 
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