Defense, special teams and cu staff...

[Val]

Miles coached the ol at CU as well.

 

[ahoelsken]

One of the worst moments in many years of watching Buff football: HCMM fist-pumping and jumping in the air after beating one of the crappiest teams ever. I guess it was clear to him, that this might be the only win of the year

I'm trying to follow the "HCMM deserves at least 2 more years" chant. Why? It was imperative to you guys that Embree leave after 2 (and a #36 recruiting class). That showed college football that CU wasn't willing to give a guy a fair opportunity - and they did it in a totally low-class manner (SI called it "stabbing in the back") which showed college football we had no respect for the head coach or his history at CU. Now, IF this was a bad hire and HCMM wins maybe 2 this year, it's "he deserves more years" - which would tell college football that CU now feels it's better to stick with a loser than admit you made a mistake.

The allbuffs/internet types who demanded Embree be forced out immediately and replaced with whoever we could get, have done more harm to CU football than anyone since Fairbanks

IMO

You're way off-Keep in mind that the 2012 team needed a miracle and some help from Mike Leach to avoid going 0-12. That team also followed up a loss at home to a mediocre Big Sky team by giving up 69 to Fresno State. Embree was a great Buff, but the fact of the matter is he and the staff he brought in were not qualified for the positions they held-He had never been a coordinator, much less a head coach. His coordinators had one year of coordinator experience between them. Let me talk about his recruiting.....Yuri Wright was a five star prospect......who can't get on the field. Kisima Jagne is playing at Arizona State (correct me if I'm wrong). Shane Dillon is playing college basketball in California. Jeff Thomas is playing at an FCS school in Texas or Louisiana. Samson Kafovalu is having trouble staying eligible. Want me to go on?

 

[ahoelsken]

But Hawkins was given about 5 years. Embree 2 years. I don't think Embo was a bad coach. The problem was the lack of talent and lack of facilities. Most coaches would struggle at CU under the current situation. But things are getting better with the new facilities construction. I still think we need to increase the budget for recruiting. Hire assistant coaches that are great recruiters. We also need to relax admission standards for Junior college transfers.

If you don't think calling QB sneaks on 1st and 10 is bad coaching, I'm afraid to ask what you do think bad coaching is..........

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

One of the worst moments in many years of watching Buff football: HCMM fist-pumping and jumping in the air after beating one of the crappiest teams ever. I guess it was clear to him, that this might be the only win of the year

I'm trying to follow the "HCMM deserves at least 2 more years" chant. Why? It was imperative to you guys that Embree leave after 2 (and a #36 recruiting class). That showed college football that CU wasn't willing to give a guy a fair opportunity - and they did it in a totally low-class manner (SI called it "stabbing in the back") which showed college football we had no respect for the head coach or his history at CU. Now, IF this was a bad hire and HCMM wins maybe 2 this year, it's "he deserves more years" - which would tell college football that CU now feels it's better to stick with a loser than admit you made a mistake.

The allbuffs/internet types who demanded Embree be forced out immediately and replaced with whoever we could get, have done more harm to CU football than anyone since Fairbanks

IMO

Embree was the only coach to not win a game at Folsom in any season since its creation.

Embree was not just bad, he was historically bad. Go back and look at how many of that vaunted #36 recruiting class are left. I will save you some time, 11 out of the 27 are still here. Him and his staff were in way over their heads and it was apparent. He had no plan. He had no idea how to lead. He had no idea how to schmooze donors. He wouldn't change staff or staff responsibilities. It was the good ol boys club from CU's glory days.

That staff couldn't be given more time. It would have caused damage that the program may never have recovered from.

 

[sackman]

The allbuffs/internet types who demanded Embree be forced out immediately and replaced with whoever we could get, have done more harm to CU football than anyone since Fairbanks

IMO

Oh, Jesus. This again? Seriously, STFU. Embree sucked. Flat out sucked. He had to go. He was horrible. The worst coach in the history of mankind level of sucktitude. He was grossly incompetent. He was terrible. Awful. If you want to gripe about something, gripe about the fact he was hired in the first place with absolutely ZERO qualifications to be a head coach. He was an unmitigated catastrophe as a head coach. The only thing worse than hiring him in the first place would have been keeping him for a third year. GET THIS THROUGH THAT THICK SKULL OF YOURS. In the 125+ years of CU football, there has NEVER been a worse coach at CU than John Embree. NEVER. And dip****s like you keep claiming he should have been given an extra year. My God you are an imbicile.

 

[8Jah]

You're way off-Keep in mind that the 2012 team needed a miracle and some help from Mike Leach to avoid going 0-12. That team also followed up a loss at home to a mediocre Big Sky team by giving up 69 to Fresno State. Embree was a great Buff, but the fact of the matter is he and the staff he brought in were not qualified for the positions they held-He had never been a coordinator, much less a head coach. His coordinators had one year of coordinator experience between them. Let me talk about his recruiting.....Yuri Wright was a five star prospect......who can't get on the field. Kisima Jagne is playing at Arizona State (correct me if I'm wrong). Shane Dillon is playing college basketball in California. Jeff Thomas is playing at an FCS school in Texas or Louisiana. Samson Kafovalu is having trouble staying eligible. Want me to go on?

There is a 3rd position here that I think is more reasonable. MM is a good coach...I think. I have no doubt Embree was a bad coach, without HC experience, but he was a good recruiter. Bottom line is you need to give each coach the years they are contracted for. Coaches can, and do learn on the job. By keeping coaches through their contract you also prevent possible scenarios like the one we may (hope not) face this year: MM produces a worse team than Embree in 2012, even though he has more skilled players and isn't transitioning to a new, tougher conference.

Also these kids that left are not Embree's fault, but rather the administrations. It would be great to have Jagne on DL this year, but he left with the coaching change. It would be great to have Kafovalu starting as our left DE this year...but our administration sets grades and API standards for these kids that many can't keep. ...and Yuri Wright will be a great player next year; the secondary is just deep this year. It's not Embree's fault that we don't have more Juniors and Seniors. He was a focused recruiter.

 

[Darth Snow]

Repeatedly saying Embree was a good recruiter doesn't actually make it true. In fact, I believe the point you are trying to make has been repeatedly and soundly defeated in other threads. He wasn't a good recruiter as a head coach. Fact.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

There is a 3rd position here that I think is more reasonable. MM is a good coach...I think. I have no doubt Embree was a bad coach, without HC experience, but he was a good recruiter. Bottom line is you need to give each coach the years they are contracted for. Coaches can, and do learn on the job. By keeping coaches through their contract you also prevent possible scenarios like the one we may (hope not) face this year: MM produces a worse team than Embree in 2012, even though he has more skilled players and isn't transitioning to a new, tougher conference.

Also these kids that left are not Embree's fault, but rather the administrations. It would be great to have Jagne on DL this year, but he left with the coaching change. It would be great to have Kafovalu starting as our left DE this year...but our administration sets grades and API standards for these kids that many can't keep. ...and Yuri Wright will be a great player next year; the secondary is just deep this year. It's not Embree's fault that we don't have more Juniors and Seniors. He was a focused recruiter.

It is embree's fault for taking these kids that were known academic risks and getting them admitted to a university with very strict academic standards.

 

[NW Buff]

How do CU's academic standards rank against the other Pac12 teams? Was the Pac12 really tougher than the Big12 when we transitioned?

Did the administration call a qb sneak on 1st and 10?

 

[8Jah]

It is embree's fault for taking these kids that were known academic risks and getting them admitted to a university with very strict academic standards.

It is the University's fault for setting high academic standards for football players. If our academic standards are low it is easier to get kids to come to CU and keep them once they are here...this is so simple it is almost a truism. What would it have meant to have Kofavalu as a defensive end this year?

There is a group of kids in the world that are very good at football. There is a group of kids in the world that could pass college classes at CU without a lot of help. The intersection of those two groups is small. If we insist that the choice between high academic standards and football success is a false dichotomy, then, like anyone who refuses to accept facts and reason, we will insist on having a poor football team.

 

[8Jah]

Yes the Pac12 was tougher from top to bottom than the Big12 when we entered. Pac12 ball was also a mismatch for us. We didn't have a secondary and we got lit up for 2+ years. The first thing we have done is go and build a PAC12 secondary and I think we now have one.

Again, Embree was a bad coach, not a soul is arguing otherwise. ...but every coach deserves a few years. MM deserves four...but now if you keep him and he is producing records like Embree then you give credibility to these absurd claims of racism. That hurts recruiting.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Yes the Pac12 was tougher from top to bottom than the Big12 when we entered. Pac12 ball was also a mismatch for us. We didn't have a secondary and we got lit up for 2+ years. The first thing we have done is go and build a PAC12 secondary and I think we now have one.

Again, Embree was a bad coach, not a soul is arguing otherwise. ...but every coach deserves a few years. MM deserves four...but now if you keep him and he is producing records like Embree then you give credibility to these absurd claims of racism. That hurts recruiting.

No you don't. You only prove racism if you are looking to. Saban could have been our coach and would have been fired after that season.

Things would have to implode in a ridiculous fashion for us to reach 2012 lows again. Remember Embree is the one who touted our new hurry up speed based spread offense and ran it for two series before getting thumped by CSU. The coach who let his team run a qb sneak on 1st down. That season was unprecedented bad. It was historically embarassing. There was no fooling yourself it would get better. That is why he got 2 years. Embree had no plan to sell recruits, the admin, or himself. HCMM at least has a plan and a history to point to of being successful.

 

[Buff_since76]

If you don't think calling QB sneaks on 1st and 10 is bad coaching, I'm afraid to ask what you do think bad coaching is..........

Let's be fair, in some cases a QB sneak is a great call on 1st and 10. On the other hand a QB dive on 1st and 10 to get you 1 yard is pure stupidity.

 

[8Jah]

No one proves racism - the thoughts and intentions of another can never be proved and it doesn't matter what you and I think. It is what the media thinks, what recruits think and possibly what other coaches think.

You only prove racism if you are looking to.

Embree ran a pro style offense (w/o pro-style talent) and he wanted to emphasize power running.

Remember Embree is the one who touted our new hurry up speed based spread offense and ran it for two series before getting thumped by CSU.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

No one proves racism - the thoughts and intentions of another can never be proved and it doesn't matter what you and I think. It is what the media thinks, what recruits think and possibly what other coaches think.



Embree ran a pro style offense (w/o pro-style talent) and he wanted to emphasize power running.

That is not what he said prior to '12.

 

[Buffalo Brad]

There is nothing racist about Embo sucking as a coach and recruiter. Bottom line, the guy failed at levels not seen since Chuck Fairbanks. The idea that this is anything but CU ending a horrible experiment with a cheap hire that happened to be a former Buff is pure folly. MM owns and will be judged on what he does from here on out but he has shown more as a coach than either of the last two idots who have run the program. He needs to improve on the recruiting no doubt, but it is at least as good as what we got at the end of Halk and JE. If it does not improve, the win loss record will force the change in time.

 

[sackman]

It is the University's fault for setting high academic standards for football players. If our academic standards are low it is easier to get kids to come to CU and keep them once they are here...this is so simple it is almost a truism. What would it have meant to have Kofavalu as a defensive end this year?

There is a group of kids in the world that are very good at football. There is a group of kids in the world that could pass college classes at CU without a lot of help. The intersection of those two groups is small. If we insist that the choice between high academic standards and football success is a false dichotomy, then, like anyone who refuses to accept facts and reason, we will insist on having a poor football team.

Are you aware that CU has an 88% acceptance rate? That's not for student athletes. It's for ALL applicants. CU's academic standards are not the issue.

 

[8Jah]

The acceptance rate is a bad measure of how hard a school is to get in and then stay in. It is a number that is completely relative to the kind of people who apply in the first place (i.e people who already think that they can get into a top tier public university). Harvard has a low acceptance rate because everybody and their brother who has a >3.8 gpa applies and they only have about 1600 slots. These stats are also gamed alot by the Universities.

CU football isn't going to attract the Richard Shermans of the world in the next five years. Perhaps this isn't clear from the suburbs of Denver, but I live in Long Beach. Kids are all different, but there is some commonalities with a lot of these talented intercity kids that are waiting to be recruited by a program like CU. These are good kids who were not blessed with academic ability nor a good environment; they were blessed in other ways. They are not getting into CU without help. They are not staying in CU without a lot of help. CU does help, but not enough IMHO and not as much as we used to. Saying these kids aren't good enough because they can't hit a GPA mark is elitist...and CU can't afford to be elitist.

Are you aware that CU has an 88% acceptance rate? That's not for student athletes. It's for ALL applicants. CU's academic standards are not the issue.

 

[8Jah]

I am done with this Embree conversation. It is like beating my head against a wall and it is water under the bridge anyway. I just hope we keep our coach this time through his contract. I hope that we all see that the biggest part of the problem hasn't ever been coaching to begin with...

 

[Darth Snow]

I am done with this Embree conversation. It is like beating my head against a wall and it is water under the bridge anyway. I just hope we keep our coach this time through his contract. I hope that we all see that the biggest part of the problem hasn't ever been coaching to begin with...

No you aren't beating your head against the wall. You are just wrong, and can't admit it.

 

[leftybuff]

The acceptance rate is a bad measure of how hard a school is to get in and then stay in. It is a number that is completely relative to the kind of people who apply in the first place (i.e people who already think that they can get into a top tier public university). Harvard has a low acceptance rate because everybody and their brother who has a >3.8 gpa applies and they only have about 1600 slots. These stats are also gamed alot by the Universities.

CU football isn't going to attract the Richard Shermans of the world in the next five years. Perhaps this isn't clear from the suburbs of Denver, but I live in Long Beach. Kids are all different, but there is some commonalities with a lot of these talented intercity kids that are waiting to be recruited by a program like CU. These are good kids who were not blessed with academic ability nor a good environment; they were blessed in other ways. They are not getting into CU without help. They are not staying in CU without a lot of help. CU does help, but not enough IMHO and not as much as we used to.

We have neglected the intercities far too long....

 

[NW Buff]

The acceptance rate is a bad measure of how hard a school is to get in and then stay in. It is a number that is completely relative to the kind of people who apply in the first place (i.e people who already think that they can get into a top tier public university). Harvard has a low acceptance rate because everybody and their brother who has a >3.8 gpa applies and they only have about 1600 slots. These stats are also gamed alot by the Universities.

CU football isn't going to attract the Richard Shermans of the world in the next five years. Perhaps this isn't clear from the suburbs of Denver, but I live in Long Beach. Kids are all different, but there is some commonalities with a lot of these talented intercity kids that are waiting to be recruited by a program like CU. These are good kids who were not blessed with academic ability nor a good environment; they were blessed in other ways. They are not getting into CU without help. They are not staying in CU without a lot of help. CU does help, but not enough IMHO and not as much as we used to.

Again, where do you think CU's academic standards and support stand among our rivals in the Pac12? My guess is that we are somewhere in the middle.

 

[8Jah]

Again, where do you think CU's academic standards and support stand among our rivals in the Pac12? My guess is that we are somewhere in the middle.

There are enough >3.5 gpa kids out there to make a great football team and Stanford has them all. Cal mines every corner of California and takes alot of academically at risk kids...but they seem to do alright. I am sure they help a lot. SC takes reams of academically iffy kids and makes it work. They deal with the fall-out of their behaviorally at risk kids and we hear about it all the time. It seems Oregon is getting their kids through no mater what. They have behavior problems too and just deal with it. Can't say much for the rest of the pack. I just don't know - and that is another point - we just don't know what these other guys are doing. You can be sure it is a lot.

 

[Quattro]

Dude just stop. Admissions for football players is not a problem and firing Embree wasn't racist.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Dude just stop. Admissions for football players is not a problem and firing Embree wasn't racist.

Admitting certain football players is a problem. It is a problem with most universities. Some just have the ability to take on that risk. We do not.

 

[Quattro]

Admitting certain football players is a problem. It is a problem with most universities. Some just have the ability to take on that risk. We do not.

Well obviously there are some guys who no one can admit, but the fact that we've admitted just like Jagne and Crawley (who was dropped by UT because of his academics) tells me that we are more than willing to accept borderline academic kids. It's all about balancing the risks, and that's a large reason why Hawkins failed and why we are where we are with Embree's guys.

 

[CVilleBuff]

This board is missing the perspective of Nash during times like these.

 

[Bufffan68]

I'm not sure it has really sunk in just how incredibly bare the cupboard was when Mac was hired. The fact the team is so young shows how few of Embree's kids were able to stay on the team and many that stayed are not particularly good. This was after Hawkins left little talent for JE to deal with.

Being a young team, I was encouraged by their response in the second half of the UMass game. When they come out and play focused and fired up, they dominated. This tells me they are immature, but have the ability to perform at expected levels. Contrast this to their response in the CSU game...Mac and Spruce said the same thing...the team couldn't flip that attitude switch in the second half. To me the change against UMass shows growth and potential and the development of an identity.

Now, can they continue to get themselves to play like that consistently? To me, that's the biggest question...beyond coaches, play calling, schemes etc. If not, it will be another horrible season. If so, they may end up being competitive in some games. I'm guessing it will be fits and starts, but they will get better at it as the season progresses...they at least have the biggest key - they have done it and can look back on it for reference and motivation.

I know some people are sick of being a ****hole team, but I am choosing patience. I'm not sure every CU coach deserves to be on a P5 staff (i.e. Neinas, Bernardi), but give these young kids some time. We have some playmakers (Sefo, Spruce, Bobo, Fields, Awuzie, Gillam etc), they just need to mature IMO.

 

[MtnBuff]

I'm not sure it has really sunk in just how incredibly bare the cupboard was when Mac was hired. The fact the team is so young shows how few of Embree's kids were able to stay on the team and many that stayed are not particularly good. This was after Hawkins left little talent for JE to deal with.

Being a young team, I was encouraged by their response in the second half of the UMass game. When they come out and play focused and fired up, they dominated. This tells me they are immature, but have the ability to perform at expected levels. Contrast this to their response in the CSU game...Mac and Spruce said the same thing...the team couldn't flip that attitude switch in the second half. To me the change against UMass shows growth and potential and the development of an identity.

Now, can they continue to get themselves to play like that consistently? To me, that's the biggest question...beyond coaches, play calling, schemes etc. If not, it will be another horrible season. If so, they may end up being competitive in some games. I'm guessing it will be fits and starts, but they will get better at it as the season progresses...they at least have the biggest key - they have done it and can look back on it for reference and motivation.

I know some people are sick of being a ****hole team, but I am choosing patience. I'm not sure every CU coach deserves to be on a P5 staff (i.e. Neinas, Bernardi), but give these young kids some time. We have some playmakers (Sefo, Spruce, Bobo, Fields, Awuzie, Gillam etc), they just need to mature IMO.

Rep sent and I'd do it twice if I could.

Nobody is or should be happy with what we are seeing on the field in Buffs uniforms right now. It sucks to suck and we do.

At the same time M2 took over a team that needed a major rebuilding job just to be ready to rebuild. We may have been in worse shape than a program starting from scratch because in addition to lack of talent we also had an ingrained losing attitude.

Will M2 be the guy to turn it around, I hope so but nobody can say for sure. As long as he is making significant improvements though he should get at least a fair chance.

If it turns into a train wreck like it did under Embree then we cut him loose but I don't see that right now despite the frustrations

 

[8Jah]

Dude just stop. Admissions for football players is not a problem and firing Embree wasn't racist.

For the love of God I never said firing Embree was racist...just that we should leave coaches alone for a few years.