Does The Big 12 Expand In The Next Two Years ?

[BuffaloChuck]

UT-Austin has a long-held position of having nothing to do with U-Houston "not ever. Not a penny to their coffers. Not ever." This comes from repeated screw-jobs by U-Hoo during the last two at-Houston stadium football games.

The Big 12 won't be looking just at TV sets but also seating capacities. They have enough crappy, tiny 60,000-and-less stadiums. They don't want anything under 80k. Think "Sugar Bowl" and Tulane, for example, just like Rice has their 88,000 stadium. That's what is attractive - schools with huge traveling abilities prefer those places - New Orleans would be pretty ideal, plus it's a guaranteed win for the established league leaders, and a guaranteed big dollar impact. UCF might be interesting because of its East Coast time-frame and Orlando-the-Draw.

All of their questionaires are pointing eastward due to TV dollars.

 

[BuffSurveyor]

Colorado St. and BYU. Two teams being Big 12 worthy.

 

[GoonieBuff]

There are 5 conferences with 64 teams today. If they could get their **** together and look at the common good, they would turn it in to 4 conferences with 16 teams each and implement a playoff. The compensation would be enormous for each school.

My bet is, egos will not let it happen, conferences will continue to add these backwater schools, and we will end up with a P5 of 70-80 schools and an awkward playoff set up. Such a shame.

Isn't the number already at 65 due to the Notre Dame clause?

 

[GoBuffs08]

Do conferences care about academics anymore? If they did why did Big cant count conference take the fuskers?

 

[90sBuff]

CsU is not Big 12 worthy..... Division II worthy, maybe.

Colorado St. and BYU. Two teams being Big 12 worthy.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

The Dirt Burglers have to be loving this plan, they lose Colorado, the Aggies, Mizzzou, and the Corn, and end up in Conference USA on steroids, lol. Unless this is a backfill plan after they and KU say eff it and convince the B10 to take them.

Or the SEC comes along and takes KU OU or OSU or some combination. Or the B1G and the buttSECs fleece the leftovers at the same time. :lol:

 

[CVilleBuff]

Regional dominance by eliminating the fly-over states.

UNM to get that state & the growing city of Albuquerque.

UNLV or Nevada to get that state.

Boise State to grab Idaho.

The 4th would probably be SDSU since it's such a big city.

Wildcard would be to look at the University of Houston since it brings Texas and also had a lot of "conference of champions" appeal.

Not in favor of Pac12 expansion unless it involved a plunder of non-UT Big XII.

However, as devil's advocate: to those horribly against someone like New Mexico, would it really be much different than Utah? I mean, we all considered Utah pretty weak before their run in '07 or whenever. New Mexico could easily be another Utah and I know we don't care about hoops, but UNM has an enormous bball following and a wonderful facility. NM is a growing state, locks up mountain region. I just don't know if academics really mean **** in conferences. Our conference already has Utah, ASU, Oregon, Wazzu, Oregon St. Pac kind of forfeited the academic argument the second ASU was added in 79. Wish we had a viable option for the state of Nevada. But then again, UNLV is really just an ASU that hasn't been given a p5 chance and has a massive hoops following.

Nevada is at 2.9 million and its population has quadrupled since 1980 and this enormous growth will only continue. Vegas metro is already well over 2 million, and the growth is staggering and won't be stopping. Reno metro is just below 500,000.

New Mexico is at 2.1 million people and growing at a sturdy, albeit not overwhelming pace. Over 1 million in ABQ metro.

 

[Dark Bohner]

:dead-horse-fast2::rolling_eyes:

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Not in favor of Pac12 expansion unless it involved a plunder of non-UT Big XII.

However, as devil's advocate: to those horribly against someone like New Mexico, would it really be much different than Utah? I mean, we all considered Utah pretty weak before their run in '07 or whenever. New Mexico could easily be another Utah and I know we don't care about hoops, but UNM has an enormous bball following and a wonderful facility. NM is a growing state, locks up mountain region. I just don't know if academics really mean **** in conferences. Our conference already has Utah, ASU, Oregon, Wazzu, Oregon St. Pac kind of forfeited the academic argument the second ASU was added in 79. Wish we had a viable option for the state of Nevada. But then again, UNLV is really just an ASU that hasn't been given a p5 chance and has a massive hoops following.

Nevada is at 2.9 million and its population has quadrupled since 1980 and this enormous growth will only continue. Vegas metro is already well over 2 million, and the growth is staggering and won't be stopping. Reno metro is just below 500,000.

New Mexico is at 2.1 million people and growing at a sturdy, albeit not overwhelming pace. Over 1 million in ABQ metro.

1. The only obvious choice left is UT Austin +1. That's a slam dunk that reals in multiple metropolitan TV markets and probably forces the hand of dTV. I know of one school in the PAC that will likely vote against that.

2. The coup de grace: the PAC adds Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, and TCU. Pro: effectively gets us Texas TV. Con: probably forces UT Austin into the arms of the SEC.

3. The meltdown: a raid of the AAC and B12 remnants commences where buttSECs, B1G, and ACC try to go to 16. The PAC is likely forced to act in this moment. None of the choices are really that great but any combination of CVilles teams are a possibility.

After 1. The waters muddy quite quickly because there is no standout program left anywhere nearby except Notre Dame.

Yuck.

 

[onealcd]

1. The only obvious choice left is UT Austin +1. That's a slam dunk that reals in multiple metropolitan TV markets and probably forces the hand of dTV. I know of one school in the PAC that will likely vote against that.

2. The coup de grace: the PAC adds Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, and TCU. Pro: effectively gets us Texas TV. Con: probably forces UT Austin into the arms of the SEC.

3. The meltdown: a raid of the AAC and B12 remnants commences where buttSECs, B1G, and ACC try to go to 16. The PAC is likely forced to act in this moment. None of the choices are really that great but any combination of CVilles teams are a possibility.

After 1. The waters muddy quite quickly because there is no standout program left anywhere nearby except Notre Dame.

Yuck.

If Kansas didn't have such a ****ty football program I think they would be very attractive to other conferences. I think the best four schools are Texas, TCU, Oklahoma and Oklahoma state but if the PAC didn't want to take TCU for religious reasons Kansas would be a good replacement just in terms of new tv markets and a national tv draw. Larry Scott should just make the call to harbaugh and tell him to take the ku job he has supposedly always wanted.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Not in favor of Pac12 expansion unless it involved a plunder of non-UT Big XII.

However, as devil's advocate: to those horribly against someone like New Mexico, would it really be much different than Utah? I mean, we all considered Utah pretty weak before their run in '07 or whenever. New Mexico could easily be another Utah and I know we don't care about hoops, but UNM has an enormous bball following and a wonderful facility. NM is a growing state, locks up mountain region. I just don't know if academics really mean **** in conferences. Our conference already has Utah, ASU, Oregon, Wazzu, Oregon St. Pac kind of forfeited the academic argument the second ASU was added in 79. Wish we had a viable option for the state of Nevada. But then again, UNLV is really just an ASU that hasn't been given a p5 chance and has a massive hoops following.

Nevada is at 2.9 million and its population has quadrupled since 1980 and this enormous growth will only continue. Vegas metro is already well over 2 million, and the growth is staggering and won't be stopping. Reno metro is just below 500,000.

New Mexico is at 2.1 million people and growing at a sturdy, albeit not overwhelming pace. Over 1 million in ABQ metro.

Utah has a much better football following than UNM though.

 

[Buffnik]

Utah has a much better football following than UNM though.

Certainly.

But if you look at if from the perspective of the region, ABQ and the state of NM are growth areas. It makes UNM intriguing.

Plus, you see how good their fans are in basketball season. The question would be whether their donors and state are willing to invest in the university and the football stadium.

I like a lot of what they bring in terms of pairing nicely with CU for hoops, skiing, XC and some other sports.

 

[Highlander]

Certainly.

But if you look at if from the perspective of the region, ABQ and the state of NM are growth areas. It makes UNM intriguing.

Plus, you see how good their fans are in basketball season. The question would be whether their donors and state are willing to invest in the university and the football stadium.

I like a lot of what they bring in terms of pairing nicely with CU for hoops, skiing, XC and some other sports.

Albuquerque has potential, but man, it seems like both the state and city governments are just totally inept. Get the right growth strategies in place and it could be a booming city.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Certainly.

But if you look at if from the perspective of the region, ABQ and the state of NM are growth areas. It makes UNM intriguing.

Plus, you see how good their fans are in basketball season. The question would be whether their donors and state are willing to invest in the university and the football stadium.

I like a lot of what they bring in terms of pairing nicely with CU for hoops, skiing, XC and some other sports.

Going by last year's numbers they would have the worst attendance among P5 teams but not by much. Their average was 23K while Duke was at 26K, Wake 28K, and Wazzu at 29K. But like you said it could be a good bet on the future if ABQ is growing that much. Plus their attendance would naturally increase because of playing a more attractive schedule. Anyone have the numbers on how much Utah's attendance increased when they joined the Pac-12?

They're currently doing some stadium expansion which will increase the capacity from 39K to 43K

 

[CVBuff]

Colorado St. and BYU. Two teams being Big 12 worthy.

Both schools have significant problems. BYU will never play on Sunday which is a major problem with non-revenue sports. It also has an arrogant culture which, reportedly, has shut down previous initial talks with the PAC 10 and Big 12 a few years ago. I delight in belittling BYU for that reason: arrogance without cause. It hasn't had a signature win in football this century but the fans act like they are Alabama or USC. Besides, my neighbor, a big BYU fan, named their dog after BYU's coach, Bronco. Little Bronco leaves presents on my lawn and driveway all the time. Reason enough.

As for Colorado State, wouldn't it would need to play its football games either at a new stadium ( not going to happen) or at Mile High to attract attention from the Big 12? Also, it only has a brief history of winning in football or basketball. It has historically been a mediocre presence in a mediocre conference.

 

[aik]

BYU is very desirable because of TV market, fanbase and broad alumni network, and the overall profile and name recognition of the school. Why it causes problems is because of the Sunday scheduling refusal, their own TV network, and ongoing concerns about academic freedom. The Pac-12 and the Big Ten both have a similar problem in that after their most recent expansions there are just too few remaining schools which fit the athletic and academic profile without bastardizing your conference's brand.

 

[CVBuff]

"BYU is very desirable because of TV market, fanbase and broad alumni network, and the overall profile and name recognition of the school."

Agreed. BYU should at least be a candidate for the B12 conference for all the reasons that you stated. Boise could be a travel partner. BYU felt that as an independent it could mimic Notre Dame, but it has since been humbled, discovering that it is no Notre Dame west. However, other choices may be better for the B12. Utah is a small market in comparison to Florida or the Cincinatti metro and is already heavily recruited by the PAC12. BYU has significant cultural issues with academic freedom, Sunday play and the stated goal of using athletics as a missionary tool. It's TV rebroadcasts on the LDS network currently hinder inclusion in a conference network. It is widely reported that it acted arrogantly in its initial contacts when dealing with B12 conference officials about expansion. It also has a rumored history of being difficult to deal with in the WAC and MWC. BYU is a poor choice for the PAC12 for the above reasons, and especially because it brings nothing in regards to television market, academics or recruiting base. Additionally, Utah has owned them the last decade. BYU is currently the 3rd best team in the state and is worse then any PAC12 team with only a modest chance to significantly improve recruiting in the near or long term because of its honor code.

 

[MtnBuff]

Going by last year's numbers they would have the worst attendance among P5 teams but not by much. Their average was 23K while Duke was at 26K, Wake 28K, and Wazzu at 29K. But like you said it could be a good bet on the future if ABQ is growing that much. Plus their attendance would naturally increase because of playing a more attractive schedule. Anyone have the numbers on how much Utah's attendance increased when they joined the Pac-12?

They're currently doing some stadium expansion which will increase the capacity from 39K to 43K

I think New Mexico has some real potential. As mentioned they are in one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country. They have no pro competition in the state and no other significant college competition. The fans turn out solidly for basketball.

Seems to me the biggest problem they have in football is the school has never been willing to make the commitment to the program required to be competitive. Upgrade facilities, find and pay a coach who can win.

I think if they could put a winning product on the field for a few seasons they would build a solid fan base.

 

[CVBuff]

New Mexico last won a football conference championship in the sixties. They are a doormat, whether it was the WAC or MWC. It has had some fine basketball teams, especially when they have had the time to bail out their star players prior to the game.

 

[sackman]

Albuquerque is one of the most uninteresting cities in the world.

 

[Idot Buff]

Albuquerque is one of the most uninteresting cities in the world.

right up up there with College Station, Lubbock, Norman......oops, seeing a trend here.

 

[Buffnik]

Albuquerque is one of the most uninteresting cities in the world.

Hard to argue with that. I like Santa Fe, though, and it's within the media metro.

 

[sackman]

I can't figure out why the population is growing there. There is nothing to recommend the town.

 

[4DemBuffs]

I can't figure out why the population is growing there. There is nothing to recommend the town.

Go live in Gary, Indiana for a few days and then you might see. Or any number of other rust belt towns. Better weather, new buildings, growing town as opposed to crappy weather, rotting buildings and a dead /dying town. It's all relative. It's no Colorado but one could do a lot worse. Honestly, given the choice between Detroit or Alby... I would most likely take Alby. Thats why the population is growing there. Plus, you add in a few hundred thousand Illegal Immigrants... you have a lot of your population growth from that as well.

 

[InTheBuff]

Albuquerque is one of the most uninteresting cities in the world.

have you been to Old Town ? it's not bad...
try Shreveport, LA ... that place is bad

 

[sackman]

have you been to Old Town ? it's not bad...
try Shreveport, LA ... that place is bad

Yeah, I've been to old town. It's two blocks of mildly interesting "meh". I agree it's better than Detroit. I suppose that's something. "Come to Albuquerque. We're better than Detroit."

I suppose if brown and gray are your favorite colors, Albuquerque would be nirvana.

 

[4DemBuffs]

Yeah, I've been to old town. It's two blocks of mildly interesting "meh". I agree it's better than Detroit. I suppose that's something. "Come to Albuquerque. We're better than Detroit."

I suppose if brown and gray are your favorite colors, Albuquerque would be nirvana.

I saw a tree.

Once.

It was a kind of green.

 

[Colorado Track Fan]

Albuquerque is one of the most uninteresting cities in the world.

 

[Bufffan68]

Rumors floating around that they may not only get to 12 but actually go to 14 schools.

If TCU or Baylor get shut out of the 'final 4' I could certainly see expansion happen if it's believed that not having a conference championship game hurt either school's chances.

Who would be taken ? Cincy ? BYU ? csu ? BSU ? Houston ? Memphis ? Cent Fl ? So FL ? UConn ?

Would this cause the Pac12 to do anything as then 3 of the P5 would have 14 schools ?

If I were them, I'd take teams that are consistently good in the non-AQ conferences...BYU, BSU and Cincy. The fourth would be a toss up, but it can't hurt to have the school with the 2nd-3rd largest enrollment...that'd be UCF.

 

[Colorado Track Fan]

I'd like to see the b12 lose Iowa State and pick up Houston. ISU is such an outlier geographically and they really don't bring much to the table to justify their inclusion relative to the geography. The B10 should pick them up. Of course, none of this will happen, but I think it makes the most sense. Add Houston and a lot of people get to see their school play a road game. Nobody goes to a road game at ISU.

It's a shame that Texas' greed sent A&M to the SEC. There is no reason Texas and A&M shouldn't be in the same conference.

Add A&M, add BYU, add Houston and lose ISU and maybe and you've got a nice thing going. BYU is big enough and broad enough to justify outlier status IMO...Mormons are everywhere.