So nothing new?
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Duke is 4-0... what Cutcliffe has done is miraculous
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Nope. Nothing new. Same feelings since they got that rejection letter with that big red "S" stamped on it.
And that's only at the point of admission!
Dammit! Rep coming. Nevermind, ymmmsr. You don't get the ultravaluable gray rep!
I gave him run o' the mill green rep.
How was Duke's recruiting ratings along the way, specifically the classes that are upperclass now?
Cutcliffe is a hell of a coach. Doesn't hurt he groomed one of the best qbs in football history. I'm quite sure recruits know that about him.
From rivals:
| Year | Duke | CU |
| 2014 | 58 | 63 |
| 2013 | 68 | 68 |
| 2012 | 52 | 36 |
| 2011 | 77 | 75 |
| 2010 | 72 | 66 |
1. Coaching makes a difference
2. Roster management makes a difference (class balance by position, etc)
3. Attrition/Retention makes a difference
4. The level of competition makes a difference
gone native
Club Member
Colorado simply has rack up a lot more frequent flyer miles to recruit. The difference is basically driven by population base:
NC - 10M
GA - 10M
FL - 20M
VA - 8M
That is almost 50 million households in NC and nearby states for Duke's primary recruiting area.
Colorado has a 5 million population. CA is 38M and TX is 26M, for 64 million combined population from those two states. One of our prime advantages is how beautiful it is to live in Boulder. Once we move back towards even mediocrity or parity with the middle of the Pac-12 on the field, we will begin to win more of the recruiting battles to pull high 3* and 4* recruits out of those states again.
I fully expect Duke to have their hands full with Florida State, just as we do with Oregon and USC when they are rolling. But this shows we should be able to get back to regularly bowling with our level of recruiting. To take that next step to being a superior team going to January bowls, that destroys lower level teams, and can win games even while making mistakes will take a bump in recruiting - without question.
I'd add that perhaps under item 2 and 3, you get Senior Leadership and build a culture of how players are accountable. Not just talk like we had under Hawkins when he took the bowl game bump and brought in Lynn Katoa, Bryce Givens and Darrell Scott to go with Simas as pillars of our breakout.
Successful rebuilds from the basement rarely (if ever?) involve recruiting splashes.
fatbuff
Member
:rolling_eyes:
I believe the Duke model of recruiting guys who are (1) smart, (2) coachable, (3) and likely to stay for 4 years will take you from the basement to competitive. I'm not convinced that in football, it can get you to the next level. And yes, Cutliffe is a fantastic coach.
Fun fact -- John Cougar Mellencamp's son, Hud, plays for the Blue Devils.
Fun fact -- John Cougar Mellencamp's son, Hud, plays for the Blue Devils.
FLounder
Think Positive and life will be Positive.
Duke played in a huge bowl game last year... And hung with Texas A&M. With more talent this year, I fully expect them to have at least 10-11 wins
Buffenuf
massive tool
Heard they mocked Aggie by shouting quadratic equations at them! (Course they could have done the same, quoting "Dick and Jane"!)
goldy21
Well-Known Member
Um...no.
| Per Capita Production of FBS Recruits by State (2008-2013) | |||
| Rate per 100K | Rank | vs. US Avg | |
| US Average | 0.75 | ||
| Louisiana | 1.83 | 1 | 2.44x |
| Alabama | 1.75 | 2 | 2.33x |
| Florida | 1.69 | 3 | 2.25x |
| Georgia | 1.62 | 4 | 2.16x |
| Hawaii | 1.54 | 5 | 2.05x |
| District of Columbia | 1.43 | 6 | 1.90x |
| Mississippi | 1.42 | 7 | 1.89x |
| Texas | 1.41 | 8 | 1.88x |
| Ohio | 1.31 | 9 | 1.75x |
| Oklahoma | 0.99 | 10 | 1.32x |
| Utah | 0.90 | 11 | 1.21x |
| South Carolina | 0.82 | 12 | 1.09x |
| Arkansas | 0.78 | 13 | 1.03x |
| Maryland | 0.69 | 14 | 0.92x |
| Tennessee | 0.66 | 15 | 0.88x |
| Virginia | 0.65 | 16 | 0.86x |
| California | 0.63 | 17 | 0.84x |
| North Carolina | 0.62 | 18 | 0.83x |
| Michigan | 0.61 | 19 | 0.81x |
| Indiana | 0.56 | 20 | 0.75x |
| Kansas | 0.55 | 21 | 0.74x |
| New Jersey | 0.53 | 22 | 0.71x |
| Pennsylvania | 0.53 | 23 | 0.71x |
| Delaware | 0.52 | 24 | 0.69x |
| Arizona | 0.51 | 25 | 0.69x |
| Nevada | 0.50 | 26 | 0.66x |
| Illinois | 0.49 | 27 | 0.65x |
| Colorado | 0.47 | 28 | 0.62x |
It also appears that he is following the same model
Come on Duff, I'm not going to stat the hell out of you but he's a damn good coach, you really can't deny that. At least in my lifetime, there is only one other coach that's won there, Steve Spurrier.
I don't think Duff's saying anything negative about Cutcliffe or his job performance.
I think the point is that Colorado is not Duke. We're a Top 25 all-time program that just invested in an unprecedented facilities project while paying our AD and coaches at a level CU never has before.
Therefore...
While at Duke, recruiting and developing then coaching up to a team that is solid but unspectacular (and athletically overmatched some weeks) is wonderful and it's ok that it took about 6 years to get there.
That should not be acceptable at Colorado. It needs to happen in 3, and we need to see recruiting at the level of programs like Washington and ASU. The difference between the Pac-12 and ACC isn't at the top. Florida State and Clemson are right there athletically to compete for a Pac-12 title. The difference is that the next 8 teams are likely talented enough to be the 3rd best team in the ACC. Therefore, being solid and well-coached probably isn't enough in our conference to rise as relatively high on the Duke model.
I think the point is that Colorado is not Duke. We're a Top 25 all-time program that just invested in an unprecedented facilities project while paying our AD and coaches at a level CU never has before.
Therefore...
While at Duke, recruiting and developing then coaching up to a team that is solid but unspectacular (and athletically overmatched some weeks) is wonderful and it's ok that it took about 6 years to get there.
That should not be acceptable at Colorado. It needs to happen in 3, and we need to see recruiting at the level of programs like Washington and ASU. The difference between the Pac-12 and ACC isn't at the top. Florida State and Clemson are right there athletically to compete for a Pac-12 title. The difference is that the next 8 teams are likely talented enough to be the 3rd best team in the ACC. Therefore, being solid and well-coached probably isn't enough in our conference to rise as relatively high on the Duke model.
It wouldn't have taken so long for Cutliffe to turn them around except first he lost Mac and then he had to watch what happened at SJSU before he was a true and committed believer!
I'm not saying our recruiting shouldn't be better, it definitely should be. The thing impressive about Duke is they built a foundation, started winning, and now they are recruiting much better. That said, CU's ceiling should be much higher than theirs.
I agree.
Should we be recruiting better, absolutely. One problem is that there is a whole generation of kids that see Colorado as a bottom feeder. It is not about a top 25 all time program in wins today. It is about what have you done recently and it has been a decade of dog**** football in Colorado. We are 7 years removed from a bowl game which still gave us a losing record. Excuses I know
With that being said, we have given MM the tools nobody has had since forever. Salary for coaches, facilities being built, etc. He needs to show progress in on the field and with recruiting. I think we are making progress on the field and the quality of player that is coming here is better than it has been. Is it where we need to be, no. MM needs to do a better job head to head with P5 and especially Pac 12 programs. Record there is not good and I get the lack of satisfaction and patience.
Bufffan68
Club Member
Good points. The converse can be true as well...rebuilding in the PAC12 would be more difficult because of the level of competition. That's my only question mark with Mac...can he repeat what did at other schools in the PAC12. I think he can (he had SJSU competitive with Stanford), but time will tell.
Recruiting is simple.
1. Most (not all, but most) quality recruits choose to stay relatively close to home.
2. Most (not all, but most) quality recruits choose to play for a winning team.
It takes a special coach to break through and be the catalyst to overcome #1 and #2. There aren't many of them. CU has to start winning with less than optimal recruits (no easy task), and then once you have momentum you need a coach with the right stuff to sell and close the deal. Once the ball is rolling it's not as hard. But it's extremely difficult to get the ball rolling.
1. Most (not all, but most) quality recruits choose to stay relatively close to home.
2. Most (not all, but most) quality recruits choose to play for a winning team.
It takes a special coach to break through and be the catalyst to overcome #1 and #2. There aren't many of them. CU has to start winning with less than optimal recruits (no easy task), and then once you have momentum you need a coach with the right stuff to sell and close the deal. Once the ball is rolling it's not as hard. But it's extremely difficult to get the ball rolling.