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Embree Presser Today

Gary was a good coach. He really got the most out of his kids on gameday. As a recruiter? He was very average imo. If I remember correctly, he publicly tried to convince people that he didn't have to go after highly rated recruits in order to build a winner here in Boulder(I think this was a result of his failures on the recruiting trail). Coach Crowder and Coach McCartney tried to talk him out of this. It obviously didn't go so well. :lol:

Just an opinion though. :smile2:
 
VamosBuffaloes said:
Gary was a good coach. He really got the most out of his kids on gameday. As a recruiter? He was very average imo. If I remember correctly, he publicly tried to convince people that he didn't have to go after highly rated recruits in order to build a winner here in Boulder(I think this was a result of his failures on the recruiting trail). Coach Crowder and Coach McCartney tried to talk him out of this. It obviously didn't go so well. :lol:

Just an opinion though. :smile2:
Click to expand...

Gary wasn't going to convince the superstar kids to come to Boulder, he wasn't the type to kiss butt and tell them what they wanted to hear. What he was good at was getting good solid hardworking kids who he could develop and who didn't mind having him riding them for 4-5 years as he got the best out of them.

This same bluntness was part of why he got nailed so badly in the so called scandal. Gary was a football coach, not a PR guy. He wasn't practiced in saying the right thing, even if it was wrong. He will tell you what he thinks and let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately that playing into the b**** Mary Keenan who was a trained liar and manipulator of words who then fed it to certain members of the press who lapped it up.
 
MtnBuff said:
Actually CU was rated by Rivals #19 in 2003

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2003/all/all

he had the #10 in 2002

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2002/all/all

dropped to #49 in 2004

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2004/all/all

came in at #43 in 2005

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2005/all/all


The 2002 and 2003 classes had some 4* guys but most of them didn't turn into major contributors. Barnetts classes were mostly built on solid 3* type talent.
Click to expand...

The drop in recruiting results had as much to do with Embo and EB leaving, imo, as it did with the media scandal. We would have had a drop, but it wouldn't have been 30 spots. We would have been high 20s or low 30s instead of where we ended up.
 
Buffnik said:
The drop in recruiting results had as much to do with Embo and EB leaving, imo, as it did with the media scandal. We would have had a drop, but it wouldn't have been 30 spots. We would have been high 20s or low 30s instead of where we ended up.
Click to expand...

The "scandal" was brutal and the restrictions they put on were ridiculous and almost made it imposible to recruit difference making kids. That in mind losing Embry and EB was also a big blow in recruiting. Had they stayed I think we would have had one or two down/bad years but then picked up again afterwards. As it was we had down years followed by continued decline, leaving us where we are now with some good kids but also a bunch of kids on the field who would have to compete for a playing time on some Sun Belt teams.
 
MtnBuff said:
Gary wasn't going to convince the superstar kids to come to Boulder, he wasn't the type to kiss butt and tell them what they wanted to hear. What he was good at was getting good solid hardworking kids who he could develop and who didn't mind having him riding them for 4-5 years as he got the best out of them.
Click to expand...

I guess that's one way to look at it.

I don't think Embree or Bieniemy kiss anyone's asses and tell them what they want to hear. I feel they are pretty honest with these kids. They've done a great job getting top notch recruits in the program back when they were assistants. Any way you choose to look at it, Gary just couldn't get the job done on the recruiting trail.
 
VamosBuffaloes said:
Gary was a good coach. He really got the most out of his kids on gameday. As a recruiter? He was very average imo. If I remember correctly, he publicly tried to convince people that he didn't have to go after highly rated recruits in order to build a winner here in Boulder(I think this was a result of his failures on the recruiting trail). Coach Crowder and Coach McCartney tried to talk him out of this. It obviously didn't go so well. :lol:

Just an opinion though. :smile2:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately with each passing losing season, Gary's tenure at CU seems more and more appealing. Lacking top notch talent but having recruiting classes ~40th comprised of 3* guys who were coached up, had a winning mentality (i.e. went into road games at Lincoln and Columbia expecting/knowing they would win + winning weak division titles and going to bowl games...that sounds terrific right about now. It's hilarious to look back on certain games or W/L records that used to have me furious.

It's going to seem like a dream season when we finally manage to post 6 or 7 wins and make it to a bowl game (2013 I believe). The Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl will never experience a group of fans before or after as excited to be back in the postseason and on our way to relevance again as this lot of Buff fans will be
 
MtnBuff said:
The "scandal" was brutal and the restrictions they put on were ridiculous and almost made it imposible to recruit difference making kids. That in mind losing Embry and EB was also a big blow in recruiting. Had they stayed I think we would have had one or two down/bad years but then picked up again afterwards. As it was we had down years followed by continued decline, leaving us where we are now with some good kids but also a bunch of kids on the field who would have to compete for a playing time on some Sun Belt teams.
Click to expand...

I do feel the "scandal" hurt us recruiting wise, but things were heading south even before the "scandal". Gary did not capitalize on a golden opportunity by winning the CCG. He should've killed it on the trail.

I know it's easy to look back and be critical of Gary. He had some tough things to deal with during his tenure at CU. I still feel he screwed himself by retaining subpar assistants, and his weak recruiting.
 
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CVilleBuff said:
Unfortunately with each passing losing season, Gary's tenure at CU seems more and more appealing. Lacking top notch talent but having recruiting classes ~40th comprised of 3* guys who were coached up, had a winning mentality (i.e. went into road games at Lincoln and Columbia expecting/knowing they would win + winning weak division titles and going to bowl games...that sounds terrific right about now. It's hilarious to look back on certain games or W/L records that used to have me furious.

It's going to seem like a dream season when we finally manage to post 6 or 7 wins and make it to a bowl game (2013 I believe). The Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl will never experience a group of fans before or after as excited to be back in the postseason and on our way to relevance again as this lot of Buff fans will be
Click to expand...

I agree. Things are pretty bad right now. If CU ever becomes bowl eligible again, I'll be going crazy!!!

But, IMO, CU made the right choice by letting GB go. They just dropped the ball when it came to hiring his replacement. :lol:
 
VamosBuffaloes said:
I guess that's one way to look at it.

I don't think Embree or Bieniemy kiss anyone's asses and tell them what they want to hear. I feel they are pretty honest with these kids. They've done a great job getting top notch recruits in the program back when they were assistants. Any way you choose to look at it, Gary just couldn't get the job done on the recruiting trail.
Click to expand...

I don't think Embree or EB kiss anyone's asses either. They are though a lot better at the process of communicating with kids in a recruiting setting and making the kid feel like they think he is or could be someone special.

As long as Gary had some assistant who could work the recruiting process for him he did fine because he was an honest guy and his players could tell the recruits that what he says is what he does. At the same time he could come across as cold and rough, some kids liked that, others didn't.

In the long run Gary probably would have been better as a pro coach. He was a hard worker and knew the game inside and out. In the pros he could have told a guy "I drafted your butt, move it or I'll cut you and sign somebody else."

To have the success he had at Nortwestern and at CU he had to be able to do some things right including finding and managing assistants. He also had some flaws that kept him from ultimate success on his personality on the recruiting trail in my opinion was one of those flaws.
 
Gary was a great "X's and O's" kind of coach. There's no arguing that. I think you hit the nail on the head with the NFL comment. He would've done great there. I'm suprised nobody will give him a chance in the league.
 
Pros would have thought that Gary was full of ****. In college, you can get away with only bringing in guys who have read your book (a requirement under GB) and think you're some sort of icon. Try that with NFL guys and they'd laugh at you.
 
Buffnik said:
Pros would have thought that Gary was full of ****. In college, you can get away with only bringing in guys who have read your book (a requirement under GB) and think you're some sort of icon. Try that with NFL guys and they'd laugh at you.
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The NFL is loaded with coaches that are full of ****.
images
 
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Pros are working for a paycheck. As long as he's winning a coach can be as full of **** as he wants to be.

Gary had some issues but he was a pretty good coach, he learned fast, he knew the game, and he got a lot out of his guys. He did rub some guys wrong and he had some players who didn't work for him but to win at Northwestern he had to be able to do something right and he wasn't bad at CU until the "scandal" crap hit.

He was never going to be a world beater but given a chance he would be pretty good, something we haven't had around here since, well since he was here.
 
Vamos, you're giving examples of guys who didn't win. Kind of enforces my point that GB wouldn't have been a successful NFL coach.
 
Buffnik said:
Vamos, you're giving examples of guys who didn't win. Kind of enforces my point that GB wouldn't have been a successful NFL coach.
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I understood your post as saying there was no way GB could hold down an NFL job.
Buffnik said:
Pros would have thought that Gary was full of ****. In college, you can get away with only bringing in guys who have read your book (a requirement under GB) and think you're some sort of icon. Try that with NFL guys and they'd laugh at you.
Click to expand...

All those coaches above were failures in CFB, yet managed to land on their feet in the League. I don't think very many players are laughing at them.
 
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