ESPN 30 for 30 "The Gospel according to Mac" Tonight at 7pm MT

[Buffnik]

Serious question, who had the bigger hole to get out of Mac I or II?

Mac I had a bigger hole in terms of the differential between the Buffs and the most talented teams in the conference. Oklahoma and Nebraska were light years better than CU.

But where Mac II has it tougher is with the level of conference rivals in between the bottom and the top. Jumping Arizona et al to get to a decent record and bank win on the way to start thinking about challenging Oregon/Stanford from the North & USC/UCLA in the South on talent is light years more difficult than jumping mid-80s KSU, KU, ISU, MU, OSU to position the program.

And while they didn't talk about it in the 30 for 30 piece (and a lot of us seem to conveniently forget this), not only was the CU record bad those first few years under Mac I, but the recruiting wasn't vastly improved from before and the coaching staff he originally hired wasn't the powerhouse group that went on to be head coaches. The recruiting pretty much took off after McCartney was extended despite record/controversy, and then changed his offense and overhauled his staff.

 

[FChairbanks]

Serious question, who had the bigger hole to get out of Mac I or II?

the answer to your question lies hidden deeply in the difference between E Gordon Gee and Bruce Benson...

 

[onealcd]

Mac I had a bigger hole in terms of the differential between the Buffs and the most talented teams in the conference. Oklahoma and ****braska were light years better than CU.

But where Mac II has it tougher is with the level of conference rivals in between the bottom and the top. Jumping Arizona et al to get to a decent record and bank win on the way to start thinking about challenging Oregon/Stanford from the North & USC/UCLA in the South on talent is light years more difficult than jumping mid-80s KSU, KU, ISU, MU, OSU to position the program.

And while they didn't talk about it in the 30 for 30 piece (and a lot of us seem to conveniently forget this), not only was the CU record bad those first few years under Mac I, but the recruiting wasn't vastly improved from before and the coaching staff he originally hired wasn't the powerhouse group that went on to be head coaches. The recruiting pretty much took off after McCartney was extended despite record/controversy, and then changed his offense and overhauled his staff.

Yeah I see the top tier thing but we have had to play Oregon each year since we joined and they seem to be at the top tier of college football. Obviously USC hasn't and we haven't played stanford every year but I think it is close. The Pac-12 was damn good the last couple years before this current season.

 

[BuffNut99]

"Warsh me! Empty me of myself!" I muttered as the wife complained about something yesterday.

 

[CUBUFF80]

Serious question, who had the bigger hole to get out of Mac I or II?

Good question, very different times. Back then there was no real arms race in CFB, so there was more level playing field (so to speak). Nike was not building palaces for Oregon, for example. Everyone was at about the same level, so a master motivator like BM was probably able to get things turned around more quickly. When MM took over the worst team in major college football, without any facilities, it was much more difficult, IMHO.

 

[DBT]

Mac calling out MikeMac for recruiting. Reading between the lines, I don't think Mac thinks MikeMac can do that.

I think you're reading way too much into what Mac is saying.

 

[DBT]

He's right and the day mike mac is even half the coach mac was at cu let us know.

Please, not the "it takes time" mantra again. 5 years of it with hawk and now fans just want the required wins to go to a bowl game. I guess asking a coach in year 3 to beat an awful hawaii team and to stop blowing games in the 4th quarter is impatient. Lame

Mac is on a much better trajectory than Hawkins ever was.

 

[DBT]

Wow, a lady just hit the ground at the gate check in. I heard her head bounce off the floor and she went into a seizure with her fist clinched and convulsions. **** me! Poor thing.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Serious question, who had the bigger hole to get out of Mac I or II?

Toss up. Oklahoma and Nebraska were better than anything Pac12 has to offer. But the balance and overall quality is much better in PAC 12 than the Big 8 then.

Mac was allowed to recruit with some incentives and recruit Prop 48 kids who did not meet academic standards. They were more leanant then. He also was allowed 10 more sxhollies back then.

CU had great success with Crowder which was within a decade. Both had **** for talent when they started and a culture of losing. Both were in a huge hole. Comparing bad fruit for each of them.

 

[Bufffan68]

I think you're reading way too much into what Mac is saying.

Certainly possible.

 

[hokiehead]

Wow, a lady just hit the ground at the gate check in. I heard her head bounce off the floor and she went into a seizure with her fist clinched and convulsions. **** me! Poor thing.

some people will do anything to get preferential boarding

 

[onealcd]

It is funny for me to hear Mac say it is all about the players and coaches don't out scheme each other when I have seen many times on this site that he may have underperformed with the talent be brought in. He should have on atleast one more championship right? Coaching may not matter for 80% of the games on the schedule but it definitely matters in the big games.

 

[DBT]

Certainly possible.

It isn't "possible!" It's TRUE DAMMIT! Listen to DBT!

 

[Bufffan68]

It is funny for me to hear Mac say it is all about the players and coaches don't out scheme each other when I have seen many times on this site that he may have underperformed with the talent be brought in. He should have on atleast one more championship right? Coaching may not matter for 80% of the games on the schedule but it definitely matters in the big games.

I remember being very frustrated with BillMac's game day coaching back in the day...maybe that's the curse of every fan.

 

[BUFFS14]

Toss up. Oklahoma and ****braska were better than anything Pac12 has to offer. But the balance and overall quality is much better in PAC 12 than the Big 8 then.

Mac was allowed to recruit with some incentives and recruit Prop 48 kids who did not meet academic standards. They were more leanant then. He also was allowed 10 more sxhollies back then.

CU had great success with Crowder which was within a decade. Both had **** for talent when they started and a culture of losing. Both were in a huge hole. Comparing bad fruit for each of them.

Plus like he said he could sell Boulder over Lincoln or Norman. We are no longer competing against those **** holes, we have to compete with So Cal, Az, etc. Much harder to recruit against those locations. Plus like has been already said, the overall talent of the PAC12 is much better then the old Big8.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Plus like he said he could sell Boulder over Lincoln or Norman. We are no longer competing against those **** holes, we have to compete with So Cal, Az, etc. Much harder to recruit against those locations. Plus like has been already said, the overall talent of the PAC12 is much better then the old Big8.

True but we got Cali kids galore back in Mac's days and got Texas kids before we were playing Texas every year in the Big XII. I think it helps selling a Cali kid that they get to go to their home state twice a year. You have to sell Boulder, the majestic Flatirons and the architecture and beauty of the campus and now our better than any Cali school facilities. I like this recruiting class, but it's time to take the top end CA recruits and get them into Boulder.

 

[SerenityBuff]

Plus like he said he could sell Boulder over Lincoln or Norman. We are no longer competing against those **** holes, we have to compete with So Cal, Az, etc. Much harder to recruit against those locations. Plus like has been already said, the overall talent of the PAC12 is much better then the old Big8.

If we can't out-recruit Tucson, we're ****ed.

 

[darth-horax]

Just watched it...great show!

I started following CU football back in 90ish when I was in my grandmothers car. She was listening to the game on 850
in colo spgs and she said, "The Enemy can really run that ball." I said, "who?" she said, "Eric The Enemy....I don't know why they call
him that, probably cause he's so good."

I've been a fan ever since, but dang, had no idea about what happened with Lou Holtz or Nebraska and all that....

I can't help but think this team mimics the CU team RIGHT before it turned the corner. I think if our recruiting can improve, we can
get to the top again, actually.

 

[Buffnik]

Something from the 30 for 30 that I'd never considered: the lack of tv coverage and low overall exposure of the program was probably an advantage for Mac I. Some of the players they were recruiting had never seen CU play and knew about zero about the program. When that's the case, it becomes a heck of a lot more about the coach(es) recruiting you and seeing the campus. Mac I may have inherited a horrible program that had lost to Drake in back-to-back years... but the guys he was trying to recruit weren't saying, "You guys lost to Drake in back-to-back years, ESPN lists you among the worst programs in the country, I watched you guys get blown out a few times this year, and all my friends are going to laugh at me if I go to CU." That ignorance due to much less coverage in the pre-cable and pre-internet age was a true blessing for turning around a horrible football program.

 

[L Buff]

I started following CU football back in 90ish when I was in my grandmothers car. She was listening to the game on 850
in colo spgs and she said, "The Enemy can really run that ball." I said, "who?" she said, "Eric The Enemy....I don't know why they call him that, probably cause he's so good."

God bless your grandma.

 

[RalphieSpeaks]

It is funny for me to hear Mac say it is all about the players and coaches don't out scheme each other when I have seen many times on this site that he may have underperformed with the talent be brought in. He should have on atleast one more championship right? Coaching may not matter for 80% of the games on the schedule but it definitely matters in the big games.

Jimmy Johnson basically said the same thing. Although I agree that coaching matters a little more than Mac is giving it credit for. Neuheisel has always been able to recruit but has not been able to win consistently and look at Ron Zook. If recruiting only mattered then Zook should have been in a couple NC games.

And yes I think Mac should have had at least one more title. That Nebraska game in '94 still haunts me.

 

[BuffNut99]

It is funny for me to hear Mac say it is all about the players and coaches don't out scheme each other when I have seen many times on this site that he may have underperformed with the talent be brought in. He should have on atleast one more championship right? Coaching may not matter for 80% of the games on the schedule but it definitely matters in the big games.

Mac was a frustrating coach at times. CU would often find itself in close games to inferior teams at halftime, but whether it was Mac or his staff, CU would always seem to adjust and pull away in the 2nd half.

 

[Deleted member 807]

The AZ or OR schools don't have geographical or climate or academic advantage over CU IMO. Add Wazzou for being in the boonies. Utah has its charms, but it's hard to rate SLC over Boulder/Denver.

Unless proximity to family and friends or there is some legacy, CU should be expected to out recruit these 6.

No doubt that LA, the Bay Area and Seattle offer proximity to the ocean and various other big city charms that Denver/Boulder can't match. But CU has enough going for it by way of setting, climate, facilities, and fans to win a few recruiting battles here and there.

I expect CU to be among the top 4-6 in conference recruiting, and never at the bottom.

 

[BUFFS14]

True but we got Cali kids galore back in Mac's days and got Texas kids before we were playing Texas every year in the Big XII. I think it helps selling a Cali kid that they get to go to their home state twice a year. You have to sell Boulder, the majestic Flatirons and the architecture and beauty of the campus and now our better than any Cali school facilities. I like this recruiting class, but it's time to take the top end CA recruits and get them into Boulder.

Agreed. It does help going back twice a year. I do like our class for most part year. I think we can and will get those Cali kids eventually. I think we are close

 

[BUFFS14]

True but we got Cali kids galore back in Mac's days and got Texas kids before we were playing Texas every year in the Big XII. I think it helps selling a Cali kid that they get to go to their home state twice a year. You have to sell Boulder, the majestic Flatirons and the architecture and beauty of the campus and now our better than any Cali school facilities. I like this recruiting class, but it's time to take the top end CA recruits and get them into Boulder.

Agreed. It does help going back twice a year. I do like our class for most part year. I think we can and will get those Cali kids eventually. I think we are close

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Something from the 30 for 30 that I'd never considered: the lack of tv coverage and low overall exposure of the program was probably an advantage for Mac I. Some of the players they were recruiting had never seen CU play and knew about zero about the program. When that's the case, it becomes a heck of a lot more about the coach(es) recruiting you and seeing the campus. Mac I may have inherited a horrible program that had lost to Drake in back-to-back years... but the guys he was trying to recruit weren't saying, "You guys lost to Drake in back-to-back years, ESPN lists you among the worst programs in the country, I watched you guys get blown out a few times this year, and all my friends are going to laugh at me if I go to CU." That ignorance due to much less coverage in the pre-cable and pre-internet age was a true blessing for turning around a horrible football program.

Spot on. I think this is the biggest hurdle for CU recruiting in the modern/social media era.

 

[BUFFS14]

Spot on. I think this is the biggest hurdle for CU recruiting in the modern/social media era.

Completely right on track. When I first heard of CU, I had no idea where it was located, my only reference was "Mork and Mindy". Once I saw the campus, I fell in love. Between the campus and the coaches and the talent from the year ahead of me I was sold!

 

[pwbuffan]

Mac I had a bigger hole in terms of the differential between the Buffs and the most talented teams in the conference. Oklahoma and ****braska were light years better than CU.

But where Mac II has it tougher is with the level of conference rivals in between the bottom and the top. Jumping Arizona et al to get to a decent record and bank win on the way to start thinking about challenging Oregon/Stanford from the North & USC/UCLA in the South on talent is light years more difficult than jumping mid-80s KSU, KU, ISU, MU, OSU to position the program.

And while they didn't talk about it in the 30 for 30 piece (and a lot of us seem to conveniently forget this), not only was the CU record bad those first few years under Mac I, but the recruiting wasn't vastly improved from before and the coaching staff he originally hired wasn't the powerhouse group that went on to be head coaches. The recruiting pretty much took off after McCartney was extended despite record/controversy, and then changed his offense and overhauled his staff.

I agree but there is a big difference between Mac I and Mac II in the fact Mac I held his staff accountable from year one and started to make changes at the end of hi first year while Mac II still has poor assistants (Neinas) on his staff.

 

[The Ogre]

Wow, a lady just hit the ground at the gate check in. I heard her head bounce off the floor and she went into a seizure with her fist clinched and convulsions. **** me! Poor thing.

You seem to have a bit of a "Schleprock" thing going on, DBT.

 

[PuebloBuff]

And yes I think Mac should have had at least one more title. That ****braska game in '94 still haunts me.

+1000 on the '94 nubs game. But I don't know that I'd lay the 89 team coming up short on coaching.