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Friday Night Games
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
You're comparing baseball, an admitted regional sport, to college football? :lol:
The SEC and Big 10 are very much national brands whether you want to admit it or not. And the ACC is very much so in basketball. Your boy Larry Scott supposedly said he wanted to the make the Pac-12 more of a national conference yet he's not doing a damm thing to make that happen.
ABC: tOSU vs PSU
NBC: "The Mysteries of Laura"
CBS: Elementary
Fox: World Series
ESPN: OleMiss vs LSU
ESPN2: Bama vs Tenn
ESPNU: Syracuse vs Clemson
BTN: MD vs WI
SEC: USC vs AU
P12: UA vs WSU
But hey, I can watch ASU vs UW kick off on ESPN at 10:45pm!
Over half my office is at work by 7:30am and the typical commute time is >45 minutes, but yeah, people just stay up later on the east coast...
or maybe, the same percentage of people stay up later as do in the rest of the country, but it just seems like "everyone," because a small percentage of an enormous number of people is the same as "everyone" in other parts of the country. (Hint: if 15% of people on the east coast "stay up late," that population is equal to the entire population of the Mountain time zone...)
SD Buff
Club Member
I am comparing time zones since its completely lost on you.
The SEC and B1G play at 9am out here. Are more people watching football at 9am in the West than 10pm in the East? I guess, really don't know. Scott started the Car Wash for PAC Head Coaches spending the day at the mothership. The PAC Network has more east coast visibility on Dish and our cable partners than not being on TV at all or on FCS West in standard definition. PAC games are slotted in the 3:30 ABC/ESPN reverse mirror slot. They are slotted in the first Fox slot of the day. The conference is as visible as it will ever be aside from getting a DirecTV deal done.
This is simply a product of being on the west coast. Sorry you don't like it, sucks for you.
The SEC and B1G play at 9am out here. Are more people watching football at 9am in the West than 10pm in the East? I guess, really don't know. Scott started the Car Wash for PAC Head Coaches spending the day at the mothership. The PAC Network has more east coast visibility on Dish and our cable partners than not being on TV at all or on FCS West in standard definition. PAC games are slotted in the 3:30 ABC/ESPN reverse mirror slot. They are slotted in the first Fox slot of the day. The conference is as visible as it will ever be aside from getting a DirecTV deal done.
This is simply a product of being on the west coast. Sorry you don't like it, sucks for you.
I've been annoyed for a while now by this east coast attitude that people in the west shouldn't get a prime time game with Top 25 teams each week or that we should have to deal with funky local game times because it's an inconvenience for eastern viewers.**** that. Conference is making great money on its media deals and there are options for eastern folks who are passionate about getting to watch more P12 football.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
That's fine. Don't have Larry Scott talking a big game about going national, though.
To the bolded, I think the answer is yes. I used to watch the 10am (mountain) B1G and SEC games when I lived in CO. I don't watch the 10pm (eastern) games now that I live here (unless it's the Buffs). This is despite the fact that I've never really cared about any of the teams in the B1G or SEC, and I usually do care about the P12 teams. But, no, I don't watch the 10pm games.
As the the last sentence, "sorry you don't like it, sucks for you," is not a very good statement to make to 50% of your potential audience.
Here's the rough time zone numbers to think about:
Eastern: 50%
Central: 30%
Mountain: 5%
Pacific: 15%
You could have one out every four televisions in the mountain and pacific time zones tuned into the game, and that would still be fewer dollars, er "viewers," than if you won just 6% of the east and central time zones. Granted, both of those are impossible ratings numbers, but the inescapable math of the situation is that your ratings have to be four times as large in the mtn & pac time zones just to get to even with the est & central time zones.
The point is that you make it work. It would probably be more valuable to make a couple more P12 carriage deals and schedule marquee matchups for prime time slots on the P12 network than to accept ESPN's 10:15pm slot.
It's because MLB actually understands math. 158 million viewers on east coast vs 47 million viewers on pacific coast.
I have no problems with 8pm EST kick-offs. Especially on a Saturday. And personally, I think kick-offs anytime between noon and 8pm local are just fine. The Venn diagram of that would mean that Saturday games kick off between noon and 6 pm (mountain) and noon and 5 pm (pacific).
I also think that it's ok to put less than marquee matchups on for Thursday and Friday games - I do understand the desire to not have a 5pm local kickoff on a weeknight. That does suck.
But it is pretty silly for the conference to have meetings between two ranked teams broadcast at a time when half of the potential viewing audience will be asleep before halftime. It's really dumb to have the conference's best chance for a heisman playing at that time.
GOAAAAAL! Um, err, Av's game broke my concentration....
Anyway, I guess my point is that late games are fine for unranked P12 teams that aren't going get a lot viewership outside their respective fan bases plus a few die-hard fans of other conference teams, but they're just a bad idea when you have intriguing matchups that could be scheduled in time slots that work for everyone.
Back to football.
I never mind seeing BYU lose although them beating Boise wouldn't bother me much. Hard for BYU though since they have some very key injuries.
DBT is right though that watching a game on Boise's turf is headache inducing. Add to that Boise wearing possibly the ugliest uniforms I've seen this year and it looks kind of like it did in the old days when a TV went on the fritz and the colors all got messed up.
I never mind seeing BYU lose although them beating Boise wouldn't bother me much. Hard for BYU though since they have some very key injuries.
DBT is right though that watching a game on Boise's turf is headache inducing. Add to that Boise wearing possibly the ugliest uniforms I've seen this year and it looks kind of like it did in the old days when a TV went on the fritz and the colors all got messed up.
I love it. Carolina and cville talk population numbers on the east coast, how many of those people are above the mason Dixon line and don't give a **** about college football? Larry Scott doesn't care about the rinky dink towns you two live in. Sorry.
SD Buff
Club Member
This disconnect is so wide on this subject.
We all understand the population base of the United States. There is simply nothing we can do about it. At least you tried to come up with a solution, but it doesn't work like that.
The 3 Billion dollar TV deal is with ESPN and Fox. PAC can't negotiate another deal with NBC or CBS. Not how carriage deals work. ESPN and Fox share the PAC inventory. CBS has tier 1 SEC and ESPN tier 2. B1G has ABC/ESPN.
The TV slots are what they are. The one argument you can make is the PAC being strong enough to wrestle away some more 730 eastern slots from the SEC on ESPN. But then what do you do? Schedule the SEC for 1030 on ESPN? There are a fixed amount of time slots for a ton of inventory. Unless you move east coast games to 9am or 1030pm, there are no solutions. We are stuck.
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Mtn, agree on BSU's unis being awful. I'm trying to figure out what is "uniform" about them other than the ugliness. Between the combinations of pink, blue, black and no sleeves and/or stockings, almost no two players are actually dressed alike.
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They look almost like somebody put the wrong batch of chemicals in the washing machine. Can't read player names or the Boise State on front, numbers are hard, and the gray just looks like they are dirty and moldy.
Scott grossly miscalculated how valuable carriage of his property is to providers outside his footprint. Fair criticism.I don't get the argument that he should react to that by telling the folks in his footprint who do highly value the property that they won't get to see good teams after 8pm or that the network should make less money in order to gain wider distribution.Hell, if that's what people want then I think you should start a campaign to make Mike Bohn the PAC-12 commish. The one-offs vs Ohio State & Michigan State, Toledo on a Friday night after CSU on a Sunday. All those things got so much more national exposure. Steeply discounted or free tickets, long-term deal putting the RMS in Denver for greater local exposure. Season ticket holders, students, tv viewers in tv footprint and the product itself can all take a back seat. You guys must have loved that. And it worked so well. Fire Scott. Hire Bohn.
This is the thing I love about east-coasters, they under the impression folks out west care about this stuff. The Pac-12 is run by the Cali schools, USC is a national brand the other three operate with no dependence on football as such they arent going to acquiesce to some east-coast-centric time slotting.
I do agree that with the current deals, we are pretty stuck. Although I honestly think the 8PM EST ESPN2 or ESPNU slots are more valuable than the 10:30PM EST ESPN slot. And I actually believe that if the P12 had wider distribution that the 8PM EST slot on P12 network would in fact be more valuable than the 10:30 EST ESPN slot.
Who says they should not? That is a new one. What the argument is, don't start your games at 10:30 pm ECT all the ****ing time. Don't limit your potential audience buy not making a deal with DTV.
Sure, play one game at that time per week but don't try and make a living at it. ****, 5 pm West Coast, 8 East Coast is a great time slot. So is 1 PM west, 4 East. I will often have at least one major network that has jack **** on at that time. Many on this board are all over the 1 PM start in Boulder. Why is that no good for UCLA?
And those are not "funky" times. Friday at 10:30 is a funky time.
And you want to engage your east coast fan base? All of those rich kids that come from the east coast.... Sure... make them wait until 10 pm for a CU game. Because we know they don't have kids that have Saturday activities and they never get up at 5 am to deal with their kids and their activities. That never happens.
LS needs to hit up those networks that have crap on at that time.
The point is that exposure matters. Sure, us east coast Buffs have a bias about start times and all that. Take that with a grain of salt. We just want to see out Buffs and have it be easy for us.
Yet, In the bigger picture, you have a lot of other potential venues to give east coast voters and media exposure to your product. When I hear PAC12 people talk about an east coast bias, I'm not impressed. What does the PAC12 do to promote itself out east? Play at piss poor tims? Check. Limit exposure? Check. Not engage major networks that are showing infomertials in those time slots? Check.
Make yourself matter. Get yourself on TV... In a timeslot where people will watch it. This idea that to put a game on at a decent time out east is a major disruption for those out west is just... well.... dumb.
1 pm west is 4 east. not bad. college football is supposed to be played at 1 pm... right?
5 pm west is 8 pm east. Not unreasonable at all.
3 pm west is 6 pm east. Still good.
10:30 pm east.... stupid. Other than one game a week.
And it would probably be the CU game.... :huh:
It's not an "east coast attitude".
Believe me.... I hate the east coast attitude more than you because I have to live in it. Ask one of these dickwads out here about anything other than SEC football and you get a blank stare. So annoying. Well, or Clempson. Same thing though.
You also have to look at the schools involved and what they have to gain through adjusted scheduling:
Little to gain:
Stanford - less than nothing their local alumni and bank rollers would flip out about repeated early starts, especially during the week.
Cal - Academic brand is so strong and their alumni base is very local, not much if anything.
USC - nothing most of them never leave LA, and pulling in 100 million dollar donations is nothing to them
UCLA - pretty much nothing, their acceptance rate is tiny they have more than enough qualified students
OSU - very regional school, exposure wont do much for them
ASU - national joke extra tv time doesnt help them
Wazzu - no help.
Could help:
Oregon - already a national brand though, not like NikeU needs more exposure.
Would help:
UW, CU, UofA, Utah - it helps these schools they have real brands and are mid-tier academic schools that more exposure would help.
Little to gain:
Stanford - less than nothing their local alumni and bank rollers would flip out about repeated early starts, especially during the week.
Cal - Academic brand is so strong and their alumni base is very local, not much if anything.
USC - nothing most of them never leave LA, and pulling in 100 million dollar donations is nothing to them
UCLA - pretty much nothing, their acceptance rate is tiny they have more than enough qualified students
OSU - very regional school, exposure wont do much for them
ASU - national joke extra tv time doesnt help them
Wazzu - no help.
Could help:
Oregon - already a national brand though, not like NikeU needs more exposure.
Would help:
UW, CU, UofA, Utah - it helps these schools they have real brands and are mid-tier academic schools that more exposure would help.
Also, let's remember that Scott had OU & OSU ready to join. P12 members shot it down. Previously, he went after Texas schools. He knew he needed the Texas market, more national cache and more content in Central Time game slots to get the deals we all want. But the conference members don't want to make that move.
So they don't give a **** about the fans around the country being able to see their games. Fantastic.
Then don't ever ****in bitch about one of the P12 teams not getting respect in the polls again. Or a top player from the conference not getting Heisman recognition.
And what about LS talking big about making the conference more national? I haven't seen anyone on here address that one yet and admit that he was just talking a big game but not backing it up.
EDIT: Just saw Nick's post #44. It's refreshing to see some objective criticism of the alleged genius.
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I think you have to separate the Saturday games from the Thu/Fri games.
For Thursday and Friday night games this year,
The SEC has scheduled 2 games with ranked teams, and that was the first week of the year.
The B12 has scheduled 3 games with ranked teams.
The P12 has scheduled 6 games with ranked teams.
The SEC and B12 were on in primetime (eastern). So Nik, you're actually getting more primetime top 25 matchups than the east coast. That might be nice for folks in that part of the country, but it may not be the best scheduling for revenue purposes. And, make no mistake, it will hurt Mariota's chances for the Heisman this year given the well known east coast bias of sportswriters...
Saturday is a different day for scheduling; on Saturdays, I think a game with a ranked team on a more widely distributed P12 network at 5PM Pacific/8PM Eastern would in fact be more valuable to the conference than the 10:45 pm EST ESPN slot is.
I'm not saying to not play games in those slots. I'm just saying, don't schedule the conference team with the best chance at a playoff slot, and best chance for a Heisman to play in that slot (TWICE!). That's a bad business decision on so many levels. It would be different if all those ranked teams the P12 has in those slots were surprises (e.g. Utah), but it's not. It's UO, UCLA, ASU, USC. Teams that everyone knew were likely to be ranked. Put OSU vs WSU in there. Cal vs CU, UW vs Cal, etc.
For Thursday and Friday night games this year,
The SEC has scheduled 2 games with ranked teams, and that was the first week of the year.
The B12 has scheduled 3 games with ranked teams.
The P12 has scheduled 6 games with ranked teams.
The SEC and B12 were on in primetime (eastern). So Nik, you're actually getting more primetime top 25 matchups than the east coast. That might be nice for folks in that part of the country, but it may not be the best scheduling for revenue purposes. And, make no mistake, it will hurt Mariota's chances for the Heisman this year given the well known east coast bias of sportswriters...
Saturday is a different day for scheduling; on Saturdays, I think a game with a ranked team on a more widely distributed P12 network at 5PM Pacific/8PM Eastern would in fact be more valuable to the conference than the 10:45 pm EST ESPN slot is.
I'm not saying to not play games in those slots. I'm just saying, don't schedule the conference team with the best chance at a playoff slot, and best chance for a Heisman to play in that slot (TWICE!). That's a bad business decision on so many levels. It would be different if all those ranked teams the P12 has in those slots were surprises (e.g. Utah), but it's not. It's UO, UCLA, ASU, USC. Teams that everyone knew were likely to be ranked. Put OSU vs WSU in there. Cal vs CU, UW vs Cal, etc.
Cal has dudes. This score isn't all that surprising other than Mariota throwing a pick. He's usually a surgeon.
SD Buff
Club Member
Come on man. Really? The SEC, B12 and P12 haven't schedule ****, its TV. The SEC and B12 don't kick their games off at 10PM, the preferred time slot of weekday games. The PAC has very little control over when the games are scheduled. The PAC Network games at 5pm can only be played if the PAC isn't playing on ABC/ESPN.
TV makes the football schedules. It's why we get 3 billion over the next 13 years.
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skibum,
Why do we find out game times a little under 2 weeks before the game?
The networks tell the PAC-12 what teams it wants in what slots. Then, PACN is barred from direct competition with those ESPN & FOX picks. The rest of games are slotted for PACN to achieve the highest possible rating.
Why do we find out game times a little under 2 weeks before the game?
The networks tell the PAC-12 what teams it wants in what slots. Then, PACN is barred from direct competition with those ESPN & FOX picks. The rest of games are slotted for PACN to achieve the highest possible rating.
As thhe guy who sees and manages this stuff i think some perspective on where the colorado audience is would be usefull.
In any given month our top states for visits are:
53% from colorado
11% cali
10% texas
4% each: Arizona, Washignton, oregon
86% of our traffic is regional, the top east coast states are NY and VA both at less than 2% of our traffic, and we unlike football are always on. We get more trffic from Kansas and Illinois than: Florida, Georgia, the Carolina's, Mass, Ohio, or PA.
In any given month our top states for visits are:
53% from colorado
11% cali
10% texas
4% each: Arizona, Washignton, oregon
86% of our traffic is regional, the top east coast states are NY and VA both at less than 2% of our traffic, and we unlike football are always on. We get more trffic from Kansas and Illinois than: Florida, Georgia, the Carolina's, Mass, Ohio, or PA.
I has been declining, not as starkly as visits from Nebraska but still, back in the big-12 13-15% was Texas and 6-9 was cali. the bigger drops have come from places like Nebraska which used to be 5%+ of our traffic and now they are nonexistent.