Future of football series vs CSU

[Jello Bear]

Playing CU last year was a no-win situation for every CU opponent - the same thing some CU fans say about CSU (which I agree is true when CSU is horrible).

Conference games are not the same as a OOC 'rivalry' game. Conference records always count for something; even if one of those wins was against a doormat. Especially for the PAC12 North teams that draw a game against us instead of USC or UCLA, for example.

 

[skibum]

assuming CSU drops off the Buffs schedule, who do you want to see added, and what terms do you think are realistic in terms of being negotiated in the near term?

Given that the series won't end until 2020, this is all longer term planning. But folks have generally coalesced around 3 different strategies:
1. We suck, so all cupcakes, all the time.
2. We won't suck forever and we're CU, all big boys, all the time.
3. A compromise between the two.

Aside from level of competition, there is also the "how many home games" question that derives from playing an unbalanced conference schedule. Most people agree that at a minimum there should be 6 home games every year. This is one of the problems with the CSU series: it's almost impossible to have 6 home games when you only have 4 home conference games and one OOC game is locked into an off-campus site.

Get rid of the off-campus game, and you can actually get to 6 home games every year pretty easily, even if you agree to 2 game home and away series with every OOC opponent. Schedule all cupcakes, all the time, and you can up that to 7 or even 8 home games some years.

Personal preference is for:
1 game with a cupcake - either a one and done pay for play, or a 2 for 1 (Charleston Southern or UMASS as recent examples)
1 game with a mid-tier opponent; 2 for 1 if you can get it, but 1-1 is ok.
1 game with a solid (even marquee) P5 opponent (1-1 or 1 and done neutral site game for right opponent)

That gets you 6 or 7 home games every year.

The flip side is that this also means you only get 1 or 2 away games each year, these locations, and consequently, the opponents should carefully considered. Two concerns here: recruiting and alumni connections. As several folks have mentioned in other threads, if we're serious about recruiting Texas, we should be scheduling at least one game in the state at least every other year. Hawaii, if they continue to have a team, should also make somewhat regular, but less frequent appearances (you also get the extra game when you play at Hawaii). Outside of the P12 footprint, CU has a large alumni presence in Texas (another reason to regularly appear there), DC, NYC and Boston - having games within easy striking distance of those locations every 4-6 years should also a priority.

Taking away the locked-in CSU game would make achieving the geographic goals pretty attainable, while still leaving room for home and away series against interesting teams outside of that "prioritized" geography.

Not advocating for any of these schools as opponents, but I would like to see a 6 year schedule composed of something similar to this:

1-1 Virginia
2-1 North Texas
1-1 Houston
1 Neutral (Jerry World) - LSU
1-1 NU
2-1 Hawaii
1-1 OU or UT (either UT) or some other big boy program
2-1 UCONN
1 Random FCS

Keeping in mind that if needed an FCS team or two could be scheduled in for of the home games of any of the 2 for 1s and we'd still keep the same geographic mix of away games.

 

[absinthe]

Not sure how active peopel reading this thread are on FB and twitter but its been really well recived there, plase share/like/retweet anything on this move if you support it so that the AD knows how the fans feel:

https://www.facebook.com/Allbuffs?ref=hl

https://twitter.com/Allbuffs

 

[Duff Man]

We are likely to hear home and homes with two P5 teams in the next few months.

 

[rosstr]

Great posturing move. But I don't trust CU to follow through when push comes to shove in 2019/2020. No trust in this administration from Benson on down. :rolling_eyes:

 

[slider]

Great posturing move. But I don't trust CU to follow through when push comes to shove in 2019/2020. No trust in this administration from Benson on down. :rolling_eyes:

I doubt RG goes public with this just to back out later. He's easing into the announcement

 

[ahoelsken]

I see were you are coming from; however if the Goats get their new stadium done before 2020 it may be a great opportunity to play in each others home stadiums. What fun. CU gets a quality win and the Goats get on television. Who knows they may even be respectable? As far as CU playing the Huskers every year. That's not going to happen. Nebraska needs to recruit outside of the area and their OOC schedule needs to reflect that for exposure. Although it would be fun to go to Boulder and paint that place Red every other year.

No. The only way Rick agrees to continue the RMS is if CSU caves and gives us a 2 for 1 or something else that is extremely favorable to us. He is listening his base of season ticket holders, and I haven't met one who likes this game and wants to see it continue.

Your OOC doesn't reflect what you say-In terms of "recruiting outside your area", you play on the road at Miami this year, and you have home and homes with Oregon in 16-17 and Tennessee ten years after that. Sure, you play Cincinnati, but thats Big 10 territory. Outside of that, you've got the series with us and a home and home with OU. Games like those are great from a nostalgia standpoint, but they don't exactly make huge differences in recruiting-You're always going to be a factor in Colorado. Playing OU in Norman does about as much for you in Texas as playing us does in California. I'd bet that we start playing again on a fairly regular basis (say 2 for 2's every decade) once the one P5 game a season OOC kicks in.......You gotta be sure you get in very important games with teams like South Alabama, Northern Illinois, Troy, and Akron.

I wanna respond to 90sBuff's suggestion to not play CSU in anything-I'm not advocating that we keep the basketball series alive, but I think we can do that and still get the right amount of cupcakes and big time games on the schedule.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

No. The only way Rick agrees to continue the RMS is if CSU caves and gives us a 2 for 1 or something else that is extremely favorable to us. He is listening his base of season ticket holders, and I haven't met one who likes this game and wants to see it continue.

Your OOC doesn't reflect what you say-In terms of "recruiting outside your area", you play on the road at Miami this year, and you have home and homes with Oregon in 16-17 and Tennessee ten years after that. Sure, you play Cincinnati, but thats Big 10 territory. Outside of that, you've got the series with us and a home and home with OU. Games like those are great from a nostalgia standpoint, but they don't exactly make huge differences in recruiting-You're always going to be a factor in Colorado. Playing OU in Norman does about as much for you in Texas as playing us does in California. I'd bet that we start playing again on a fairly regular basis (say 2 for 2's every decade) once the one P5 game a season OOC kicks in.......You gotta be sure you get in very important games with teams like South Alabama, Northern Illinois, Troy, and Akron.

I wanna respond to 90sBuff's suggestion to not play CSU in anything-I'm not advocating that we keep the basketball series alive, but I think we can do that and still get the right amount of cupcakes and big time games on the schedule.

This is about money. The deal was too generous for CSU and Mile High. With the cost of the stadium expansion I think he wants that date for body bag home game.

My concern, and its a small one in the grand scheme of things, is engagement of Denver fans. A lot of CU alums live down there and its a nice kick off to the season for them and its an easier game to get to leading into the season.

 

[bigbang2]

Sign a deal to play Air force instead.

 

[DrunkRalphie]

This is about money. The deal was too generous for CSU and Mile High. With the cost of the stadium expansion I think he wants that date for body bag home game.

My concern, and its a small one in the grand scheme of things, is engagement of Denver fans. A lot of CU alums live down there and its a nice kick off to the season for them and its an easier game to get to leading into the season.

I'm a CU grad and live in Denver. Let me just say I hate the Rocky Mountain Showdown. And I especially hate that the game is played at Mile High. Get rid of the game completely. I'm not even interested in watching the series continue if it was played on campus. I'm more than happy to drive to Boulder on my Saturdays to watch Pac 12 games.

 

[DBT]

Well, damn. CUBuffs.com used to allow you to view the "schedule" for 3 or 4 years into the future. It no longer does that. Is there a site that shows our scheduled OOC teams in the near future?

 

[MtnBuff]

In the big scheme of things an extra game in Boulder is probably more appealing than playing a game in Denver. The experience in Mile High just isn't a good one and it isn't like Boulder is 3 hours away.

Between the Denver PD, the parking situation, lousy tailgating, drunken once a year sheep fans, and a sterile half empty stadium doing the game in Denver isn't going to help much with the Denver fans.

It might even hurt them. Get a casual fan to go to a game in Denver and their response is likely to be "If this is what going to a CU game is like it's not worth it, I'm not going to drive up."

 

[slider]

RG:

After the current contract, playing the game in Denver is dead," George said. "And I'm not sure where our series with CSU goes after that either. Today, we would not extend our agreement (for CU to play CSU in football) past 2020."

http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/...ootball-series-csu-after-2020?source=infinite

 

[J.R. Ewing]

RG gets it.

 

[dio]

Glad the game in Denver is gone

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Give us a 2 for 1 deal or get lost. Pretty much all RG is saying. Like that from a CU standpoint. The game gains us nothing. Glad to see what RG is doing.

 

[Darth Snow]

Rick George is being very, VERY clever here:
http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder/...-series-may-end-after-2020?source=most_viewed

George said he is sending out football season ticket renewals on Thursday along with a letter to fans informing them of the status and future of the CSU series. George said CU will begin allowing season-ticket holders to purchase extra tickets to other home games in Boulder instead of buying tickets to the game in Denver, but he hopes fans will decide to continue supporting the Buffs in Denver.

Our forced season ticket buys are the sole reason why the lack of attendance opt-out clause has not been tripped. RG just fixed that. :devil:

 

[DiggerBuffs]

Rick George is being very, VERY clever here:
http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder/...-series-may-end-after-2020?source=most_viewed


Our forced season ticket buys are the sole reason why the lack of attendance opt-out clause has not been tripped. RG just fixed that. :devil:

Yes and Rick George is also saying, I hope you show up to Denver but if you don't, great because if attendance is abysmal we will be able to end the game earlier than planned. He's not an idiot.

 

[Buffnik]

I wish it could end sooner, but I suppose there are more important things for RG to be doing than paying a buyout to get out of one of the more profitable games on the schedule.

 

[ramfan]

I understand why CU fan's would prefer to host the game, in their home years, at Folsom if SAF isn't going to sellout. Why not have a true home game if the RMS is no longer big enough/attractive enough to draw considerably more than Folsom can hold? That makes sense. That being said, it doesn't sound like that's the main reason for CU fans' displeasure with the location. It sounds more like the hatred, again just from the location and not the game in general, is about seat location at SAF versus Folsom. Why can't CU fix that? Why give donors and season ticket holders crappy seats at SAF? I realize this is just one issue among many with the game but it seems like a completely controllable problem.

 

[Darth Snow]

I understand why CU fan's would prefer to host the game, in their home years, at Folsom if SAF isn't going to sellout. Why not have a true home game if the RMS is no longer big enough/attractive enough to draw considerably more than Folsom can hold? That makes sense. That being said, it doesn't sound like that's the main reason for CU fans' displeasure with the location. It sounds more like the hatred, again just from the location and not the game in general, is about seat location at SAF versus Folsom. Why can't CU fix that? Why give donors and season ticket holders crappy seats at SAF? I realize this is just one issue among many with the game but it seems like a completely controllable problem.

$.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I understand why CU fan's would prefer to host the game, in their home years, at Folsom if SAF isn't going to sellout. Why not have a true home game if the RMS is no longer big enough/attractive enough to draw considerably more than Folsom can hold? That makes sense. That being said, it doesn't sound like that's the main reason for CU fans' displeasure with the location. It sounds more like the hatred, again just from the location and not the game in general, is about seat location at SAF versus Folsom. Why can't CU fix that? Why give donors and season ticket holders crappy seats at SAF? I realize this is just one issue among many with the game but it seems like a completely controllable problem.

It has more to do with flexibility. We have a 9 game conference schedule and will likely be required by the conference to schedule one more P5 OOC from a designed conference partner. So with the CSU game, we now have 11/12 permanently scheduled ever year. Doesn't work. SAF is not good unless it is sold out. It hasn't been close recently. It should be at home if it is going to be played. That doesn't work for CSU because revenue is less than is possible at SAF.

It no longer makes any sense with the upcoming P5 landscape.

 

[DiggerBuffs]

I understand why CU fan's would prefer to host the game, in their home years, at Folsom if SAF isn't going to sellout. Why not have a true home game if the RMS is no longer big enough/attractive enough to draw considerably more than Folsom can hold? That makes sense. That being said, it doesn't sound like that's the main reason for CU fans' displeasure with the location. It sounds more like the hatred, again just from the location and not the game in general, is about seat location at SAF versus Folsom. Why can't CU fix that? Why give donors and season ticket holders crappy seats at SAF? I realize this is just one issue among many with the game but it seems like a completely controllable problem.

It's not just seat location. It's the fact, once a year we have to deal with fans from a different section than the one we sit in so they are self pretentious ass holes that don't understand the back and forth of a college game (we pay extra to sit in better seats than we do in Folsom since our original tickets end up to the less than cerebral CSU student section otherwise) and CSU fans care for one game a year.

The main reason CSU is not an ideal yearly opponent is because of money and needing to have 6-7 home games. In years where CU only gets 4 conference games, they need 2 home games. This game prevents that. Also, the luster has died down. If CSU was in the Big XII or another P5 school, it would benefit both teams with a Win. A win does nothing for CU, and even with a 2-10 team CSU gets recognized for beating a P5 team and benefits greatly with a W.

 

[ramfan]

$.

But how does allowing season ticket holders to opt out of the game in Denver help with money?

It has more to do with flexibility. We have a 9 game conference schedule and will likely be required by the conference to schedule one more P5 OOC from a designed conference partner. So with the CSU game, we now have 11/12 permanently scheduled ever year. Doesn't work. SAF is not good unless it is sold out. It hasn't been close recently. It should be at home if it is going to be played. That doesn't work for CSU because revenue is less than is possible at SAF.

It no longer makes any sense with the upcoming P5 landscape.

I get that. I think it makes sense to play the RMS where CU's home games were at Folsom and CSU's at SAF until the new stadium is ready, at which point CSU's home games would move to FoCo. I'd be fine with that. It's a concession, but it makes sense from a financial standpoint. I obviously don't know exactly what's gone on in these discussions but I'm surprised the schools couldn't agree on something like this. Maybe the offer moving forward was 2-1, as has been alluded.

 

[dio]

But how does allowing season ticket holders to opt out of the game in Denver help with money?


I get that. I think it makes sense to play the RMS where CU's home games were at Folsom and CSU's at SAF until the new stadium is ready, at which point CSU's home games would move to FoCo. I'd be fine with that. It's a concession, but it makes sense from a financial standpoint. I obviously don't know exactly what's gone on in these discussions but I'm surprised the schools couldn't agree on something like this. Maybe the offer moving forward was 2-1, as has been alluded.

Part of my annoyance is having to listen to CSU fans and admin trumpet how important the game is in Denver... but the second the stadium is built that goes out the window?

 

[DiggerBuffs]

But how does allowing season ticket holders to opt out of the game in Denver help with money?

May cause series to end earlier. Allows CU to host a game at Folsom.

I think George has pretty much said 2 for 1 immediately if we want to extend this and CSU has said no thanks. Both programs need to take a break and have this game every 3 years to build some hatred and momentum for it.

 

[ramfan]

Thanks for the responses. I've already expressed my disappointment if the series doesn't get extended but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Each program would move on with little negative impact (in my opinion). A little bit of a breather might be helpful.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Sign a deal to play Air force instead.

After the way it ended, with CU students spitting on AF cadets or worse, AF will never agree to it again.

I'm a CU grad and live in Denver. Let me just say I hate the Rocky Mountain Showdown. And I especially hate that the game is played at Mile High. Get rid of the game completely. I'm not even interested in watching the series continue if it was played on campus. I'm more than happy to drive to Boulder on my Saturdays to watch Pac 12 games.

Ive enjoyed the showdown at Mile High but I know others that have not. If we cancel it Ill miss it because it was fun to argue with my CSU friends. This game will get replaced with Nichols State or UMass type game which isn't as exciting. Given the money needs I support the AD in doing whatever they think is right. Even if does get killed for awhile it probably will not be forever.

 

[BuffsNYC]

But how does allowing season ticket holders to opt out of the game in Denver help with money?

The money's the same. The season ticket holders can exchange their RMS tix for extra tix to another game--they still have to pay the same amount for the season tix. Since we're not selling out, there's no revenue loss.

 

[ramfan]

The money's the same. The season ticket holders can exchange their RMS tix for extra tix to another game--they still have to pay the same amount for the season tix. Since we're not selling out, there's no revenue loss.

I was more meaning how does doing that assist with $$ issues versus just giving season ticket holders better seats in Denver?