Future of football series vs CSU

[The Alabaster Yak]

We will be required to schedule 1 P5 opponent in OOC very soon by the Pac-12. So our schedule goes from 9 P5 opponents to 10. Leaving us 2 (in most years) opponents to schedule for winnable games. IF those games are to be MUST wins because of our already difficult schedule, putting the rams on the slate does not help us, because of the nature of the game.

You're absolutely right. Two teams that just know each other too well

 

[rosstr]

Love it from RG. End the game at all costs.

 

[dio]

Thanks [MENTION=10239]ramfan[/MENTION]

You're a good poster and while I don't agree with all your points, I like having your around.

 

[pcbuff]

RAm fan. Here's the crux. We(CU) can afford to drop the game. CSU is an AD that does not make a profit. If not this, then a body bag road trip to replace the funding. Which is better for you?

 

[Deleted member 807]

My unsolicited recommendation is for CSU to pursue the most direct avenue to elevate to a P5 conference.

IMO, this means gaining exposure playing as many P5 schools in the B12 and P12 as possible.

They should treat each Saturday date as an opportunity to gain exposure across both conferences.

That might require scheduling 2-1s and home-home with as many Big12 and Pac12 opponents as they can get. It is crucial for FoCo to appear worthy of a P5 invite.

CSU should worry about "auditioning" their campus and their AD in front of each and every Texas, Oklahoma and California school. The fans and administrators of P5 schools need a tangible basis to justify extending CSU an invitation to a big boy conference.

Playing CU each year in Denver does very little to further CSU's mission to upgrade conferences.

Many CU fans are inclined to prefer CSU as a traveling partner/rival over Utah. We just don't want to waste one of our few OCC slots on CSU at a neutral location.

CSU needs to work on winning over other fan bases in other states and prove to the nation that they belong.

The best thing CU can do is to let CSU sell themselves to others. When they prove themselves worthy of being in our conference then we'll be glad to play them again.

We do NOTHiNG to help their campaign for B12 membership.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Good stuff Ram Fan. You contribute a solid point of view. Personally I want this game killed with fire. CSU has every conceivable mental advantage going into this game and nothing to lose while Colorado has everything to lose and nothing to gain. Yeah, I'll admit this game scares me, but not because I think the Rams are better, but because they have no pressure on them.

 

[ramfan]

Thanks for the responses. A few were directed to me but I don't have time to respond to individual points/comments. A few general thoughts:

- CSU fans like this game, but they don't NEED it. Life will go on if the series ends. The world won't end. Focuses will shift. Football will still be played. This isn't an attempt to undermine the series because I do like this game, but saying things like CSU desperately needs this game is insulting. CSU would try and schedule 1-1s with other lower level P5 teams and maybe 2-1 or one off body bag money games with more prominent programs. There might not be as much overall excitement over some of those options, depending on the specific team, but the world won't end (for either program).

- I'm not in the business of trying to sell the series to you as fans or hypothetically to the CU AD. I'm giving my own opinion, that's all. You might (do) feel differently and that's ok. If CU fans/program don't want to play it, regardless of the reasons, then don't play it. We can all move on and will be at most slightly better or worse off but it won't make a huge dent either way.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Do not want a 2-1. Kill it completely

:stupid:

 

[InTheBuff]

Thanks for the responses. A few were directed to me but I don't have time to respond to individual points/comments. A few general thoughts:

- CSU fans like this game, but they don't NEED it. Life will go on if the series ends. The world won't end. Focuses will shift. Football will still be played. This isn't an attempt to undermine the series because I do like this game, but saying things like CSU desperately needs this game is insulting. CSU would try and schedule 1-1s with other lower level P5 teams and maybe 2-1 or one off body bag money games with more prominent programs. There might not be as much overall excitement over some of those options, depending on the specific team, but the world won't end (for either program).

- I'm not in the business of trying to sell the series to you as fans or hypothetically to the CU AD. I'm giving my own opinion, that's all. You might (do) feel differently and that's ok. If CU fans/program don't want to play it, regardless of the reasons, then don't play it. We can all move on and will be at most slightly better or worse off but it won't make a huge dent either way.

I guess I'll take it that you see why CU would like to kill it with fire ? This game makes no sense to Colorado in relation to their 9 game PAC 12 schedule
and the mix CU will be faced with in their future scheduling. CSU's Annual Fundraiser is coming to an end.

 

[slider]

Now P5 program is going to schedule a 1-1 with CSU.

 

[ramfan]

Yes, I can understand some of the reasoning there. I don't agree with all of it, I think a lot of it is just not wanting to play CSU because of the team itself and less so the home/away aspects, which seems a bit weird, but I can understand it. I think to say the series "makes no sense" is a little strong, you have to play someone and every OOC game isn't going to be at home (CU has signed 1-1s with SJSU, Mass, Hawaii, etc - but I realize that isn't the same as a long-term deal). Nonetheless, it doesn't really matter what I think. CU should do whatever they feel is best for them. If that's to continue the series on somewhat but not completely equal footing then great, if not then so be it.

 

[Duff Man]

Think it boils down to 1 fact.

No matter how putrid CU has been the past decade, no matter how many times CSU has won this game recently, CU is a P5 School with a P5 schedule every year. Playing a G5 school is fine for 1 OOC game, however when that team views the game as their superbowl there is added risk and difficulty in playing that game that CU does not need on the schedule. CSU adds no national exposure. Adds no recruiting assistance. The game gives CU nothing other than in state bragging rights which we already own for being the lone P5 school in Colorado.

I understand it, but seems a lot of fans want it both ways. Any time there is talk of adding big time P5 schools to the schedule, a vocal portion of the fan base throws a fit because those games are not winnable.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Now P5 program is going to schedule a 1-1 with CSU.

They have a 1-1 scheduled with Minnesota for '15 and '16.

 

[Buffnik]

Positives of this game is that it is a sell-out if on campus and pays like a home sellout no matter the attendance when it's in Denver.

Positive & Negative is the local media coverage the game gets. It's good to get extra coverage. It's bad for CU that so much of the coverage is of the "no win situation variety" with folks naturally pulling for the lower division (G5) program so that if CU wins it was what it was supposed to do (and gets negative pub if it's a competitive game) and if CU loses it results in complete disparagement of the program.

Positive & Negative is that it delivers a Denver game to fans. On the plus side, it's a good opportunity for some local high school players and city fans to catch a CU game when they might not otherwise make the trip into Boulder. On the down side, the vast majority of the core fans don't like college games in a pro stadium and season ticket holders get especially annoyed that seat assignments with large donations attached don't equate to comparable seats at Mile High.

Negative is the difficulty of scheduling with a 9-game conference schedule when a neutral site 10th game is added every year. In years when there are 4 Pac-12 home games, that means that the AD has to find a way to bring 2 games to Folsom for both the other non-conference games (while in the years of 5 home Pac-12 games it's 1 of 2 at Folsom). That virtually guarantees that the rest of CU's non-conference schedule is made up of FCS programs or the dregs of FBS that are willing to do 2-for-1 deals. This has reduced the value and excitement of CU home schedules and has negatively impacted both attendance and season ticket sales. Looking to the future with the assumption that CU is playing at a high level again, this could be a killer on strength of schedule when the bowl committee is deciding tournament & bowl slots.

Negative is also the fact that if you are going to be successful at anything, you have to benchmark and challenge yourself against your peers. The RMS has turned CSU into CU's primary rival. For CSU, a G5 program, that's elevating. For CU, a P5 program, that's undermining the operation.

Negative is also on in-state recruiting. It's a boon to CSU to have a game in Denver against CU every year. If they are competitive or win, they've got a great message with in-state recruits. They may rarely win a head-to-head recruiting battle with CU, but they become viable enough that CU can't slow play the 2nd tier guys within the state or offer grayshirts and feel totally confident that they'll still easily trump the CSU full offer. Further, where it hurts more with in-state recruiting is when CU is going after the 1st tier guys who have opportunities at Arizona State, UCLA, Nebraska or wherever. The RMS sours those prospects on the idea of CU being "big time" football and makes those out-of-state programs a lot more attractive.

I could go on, but this post is long enough and I've posted enough on this topic. I want the CSU series to die. It is simply not part of the recipe for CU to have its best future with the health of its football program.

 

[ramfan]

Now P5 program is going to schedule a 1-1 with CSU.

Except that's exactly what CSU recently set up with Minnesota. That only one example and it might never happen again but I'd have to think the new stadium would help attract 1-1s.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

Except that's exactly what CSU recently set up with Minnesota. That only one example and it might never happen again but I'd have to think the new stadium would help attract 1-1s.

Minnesota plays an 8 game conference schedule. Ultimately, I think the days of P5 schools playing 8 game conf schedules will come to an end. This will make scheduling 1-1s with G5 schools far less appealing.

 

[Buffnik]

Except that's exactly what CSU recently set up with Minnesota. That only one example and it might never happen again but I'd have to think the new stadium would help attract 1-1s.

Totally depends on the size of the guarantee CSU can offer back. New stadium should help with that.

 

[onealcd]

Yes, I can understand some of the reasoning there. I don't agree with all of it, I think a lot of it is just not wanting to play CSU because of the team itself and less so the home/away aspects, which seems a bit weird, but I can understand it. I think to say the series "makes no sense" is a little strong, you have to play someone and every OOC game isn't going to be at home (CU has signed 1-1s with SJSU, Mass, Hawaii, etc - but I realize that isn't the same as a long-term deal). Nonetheless, it doesn't really matter what I think. CU should do whatever they feel is best for them. If that's to continue the series on somewhat but not completely equal footing then great, if not then so be it.

Not sure about Hawaii but SJSU and UMass were both 2-1's i thought but then MAC didn't want to play his former team so he eliminated one of the home games with SJSU.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I'm cool with it for the time being, I do hate the game and see no benefit. I miss the days of us having teams like Tennessee, the U, Wisconsin etc. A team I'd really like to see us play is TCU and, if we occasionally dip into Florida, any of the schools there. I'm looking more ahead but that's why I started watching CU, **** everybody, bring it on.

 

[GoBruinz]

I am not a CU fan, but a Pac 12 fan. I really don't understand why you do the yearly game with CSU at a neutral site. That would be like us (UCLA) having a yearly neutral site game with San Diego State or Fresno State. There is no upside to winning, but plenty of downside to losing. Plus you lose a potential home game.

I get that there is history here, but IMO this game only makes sense as a 2:1 or if CSU gets a Big 12 invite it can be neutral or 1:1.

Colorado should schedule 1:1 with P5 opponents, 2:1 with non-P5 FBS opponents, and home games only with FCS or other tomato cans. That's pretty much the direction everyone is going, with some exceptions.
Just my opinion.

 

[ramfan]

Yeah, the whole neutral site thing should go away, but you still have to play other teams. If CU is going to swap out CSU for teams like Wisconsin, Tennessee, and TCU well then more power to you - get that done. But if it's for more of SJSU, Mass, and Hawaii, then why not play CSU in home stadiums?

 

[GoBeers]

FYI, Big Ten moves to a 9 game conference schedule in 2016.

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071113aab.html


I don't think the P12 or BT (and for that matter B12) will require a P5 home and home if the ACC and SEC are still doing 8 game conference schedules. The ACC and SEC are doing the required P5 home and home to make it look like they trying to match the BT/P12 @ 9 required games vs a P5 opponent. Of course the Pac 12 usually plays those games anyway, and generally does so with a better record than the other conferences.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Not sure about Hawaii but SJSU and UMass were both 2-1's i thought but then MAC didn't want to play his former team so he eliminated one of the home games with SJSU.

Neither Hawaii or Umass were 2-1's; both were 1-1. We've done two 1-1's with Hawaii starting in '10-'11 and now '14-'15. UMass is also a 1-1, unless we have another game against them in '16 but I don't think that's the case. I was going to bring that up before, but figured that wasn't relevant as those were Mike Bohn scheduling ideas, correct? How in the hell, a P12 team agreed to go to UMass is beyond me. Going to Hawaii is one thing, as it allows CU to get some exposure on the islands for recruiting, but a 1-1 against UMass is inexcusable.

 

[skibum]

Not sure about Hawaii but SJSU and UMass were both 2-1's i thought but then MAC didn't want to play his former team so he eliminated one of the home games with SJSU.

This is correct. Hawaii and UMASS are 2 for 1s. SJSU and Fresno were originally signed as 2 for 1s as well. The SJSU series became a 1 and 1 primarily because of the conference change and no longer having 4 OOC games, requiring some schedule adjustments, somewhere. The game was initially delayed and then was just outright cancelled when we hired MM (that he, and the rest of the staff, could avoid coaching against kids they had coached was a feel good excuse for dropping the game instead of continuing to try and negotiate a future date that would work for both schools). I don't remember what ultimately happened to the Fresno game that was canceled because of the flood.

 

[skibum]

Neither Hawaii or Umass were 2-1's; both were 1-1. We've done two 1-1's with Hawaii starting in '10-'11 and now '14-'15. UMass is also a 1-1, unless we have another game against them in '16 but I don't think that's the case. I was going to bring that up before, but figured that wasn't relevant as those were Mike Bohn scheduling ideas, correct? How in the hell, a P12 team agreed to go to UMass is beyond me. Going to Hawaii is one thing, as it allows CU to get some exposure on the islands for recruiting, but a 1-1 against UMass is inexcusable.

The second UMASS trip to Folsom is scheduled for 2018 (I think). It's not written in stone that game agreements have to occur in consecutive years.

 

[Jello Bear]

- CSU fans like this game, but they don't NEED it. Life will go on if the series ends. The world won't end. Focuses will shift. Football will still be played. This isn't an attempt to undermine the series because I do like this game, but saying things like CSU desperately needs this game is insulting.

I am sure that's the case for you and quite a few other CSU fans. But, respectfully, there is a sizable segment of your fanbase that comes out of the woodworks only for the CU-CSU game. Everyone here has a story about a CSU friend / coworker / family member that talks up their team during the week of the RMS, then doesn't bother to watch a single other game on their team's schedule; even in an exceptional year like you just had. You might say we're only offering anecdotal evidence, but you had just 22K there for Senior Day against NM, when you were still actually ranked (or on the verge?). Without CU on the schedule, your core group of fans who actually pay attention to the season just isn't a big - the only question is to what degree.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Minnesota plays an 8 game conference schedule. Ultimately, I think the days of P5 schools playing 8 game conf schedules will come to an end. This will make scheduling 1-1s with G5 schools far less appealing.

To build on this thought, CSU is not going to get a B1G invite. It just won't happen. The Golden Gopher series has marginal value in the chess game of conference upgrades.

For CSU to turn heads, they need to beg...I mean BEG...for any arrangement that puts Oklahoma, and Texas on the schedule in a way that includes a FoCo visit. That is a 2-1 well spent.

Games with Baylor, Okie Light, WVU, ISU, KU, Kjuco, or TCU will help the cause.

The P12 will be a harder nut to crack. The Cal game CSU played a few years back didn't really do much. Pac fan bases don't travel that well. Just keep playing P12 teams in bowl games and bring a loud contingent.

Beating USC or Oregon would turn heads. But don't hold your Ram breath. The P12 already had one whipping boy in Colorado. The conference of champions doesn't need another.

 

[Dark Bohner]

On further reflection, playing CSU annually needs to be killed with fire. GoBruinz provides an outsiders perspective on why this series in Denver is so frustrating for Colorado fans. However, I think it would be fund to do maybe 1-2 games every ten years on campus. At that point, the game is fresh each time and fans can enjoy it.

 

[Buffs35]

I am sure that's the case for you and quite a few other CSU fans. But, respectfully, there is a sizable segment of your fanbase that comes out of the woodworks only for the CU-CSU game. Everyone here has a story about a CSU friend / coworker / family member that talks up their team during the week of the RMS, then doesn't bother to watch a single other game on their team's schedule; even in an exceptional year like you just had. You might say we're only offering anecdotal evidence, but you had just 22K there for Senior Day against NM, when you were still actually ranked (or on the verge?). Without CU on the schedule, your core group of fans who actually pay attention to the season just isn't a big - the only question is to what degree.

100% correct. They come out of hibernation every year for 6 hours - that's it. Hell they can't even sell out "The Border War".

No upside, no campus atmosphere, no thank you.

 

[ahoelsken]

Neither Hawaii or Umass were 2-1's; both were 1-1. We've done two 1-1's with Hawaii starting in '10-'11 and now '14-'15. UMass is also a 1-1, unless we have another game against them in '16 but I don't think that's the case. I was going to bring that up before, but figured that wasn't relevant as those were Mike Bohn scheduling ideas, correct? How in the hell, a P12 team agreed to go to UMass is beyond me. Going to Hawaii is one thing, as it allows CU to get some exposure on the islands for recruiting, but a 1-1 against UMass is inexcusable.

Just to correct you-Umass is a 2 for 1. They will be back out here in 2021. Regardless of that, you have a point. No other P5 team (outside of Boston College) would play a team like that on the road. I have no problem with playing Hawaii on a fairly consistent basis if they keep football-You get the extra game