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Games thread- MEN'S bball ends 3 game road trip @ Cal (Wed.,1/10/24, 9:00 PM MT; ESPNU) & then head back home to host USC (Sat., 8:00 PM MT; ESPN2)
- Thread starter AztecBuff
- Start date
Robert Sorell
Well-Known Member
On one hand, reading deeply into a pair of really close road losses is a foolish thing to do. It should really only move the needle a little bit on our expectations. Just as we shouldn't think it's all roses if they win the next 3 at home.
On the other hand, the defense effort and performance in the second half should raise some alarm bells.
I really wanted to root for a clear cut top 25 team this year, but maybe it's a bubble watch season.
On the other hand, the defense effort and performance in the second half should raise some alarm bells.
I really wanted to root for a clear cut top 25 team this year, but maybe it's a bubble watch season.
RetainedGecko98
Well-Known Member
I was urging caution after the Arizona State loss on Saturday. Well, there's no defending that one. 20-point lead to a bad team, and you fall apart.
I have a lot of respect for what Tad has done at CU. But if a team with 3 future NBA players isn't comfortably in the tournament, that looks like a coaching issue. There's still a lot of basketball left to be played, but they are clearly underperforming at the moment.
I have a lot of respect for what Tad has done at CU. But if a team with 3 future NBA players isn't comfortably in the tournament, that looks like a coaching issue. There's still a lot of basketball left to be played, but they are clearly underperforming at the moment.
Echo the sentiments here. Tad is far and away the best coach CU has had, but I think it’s time for new leadership.
Hell, even Belichick was let go in New England today. Sometimes you just have to shake hands, say thanks for what you did, and find a new voice.
He’s had very talented teams recently that just are not responding and he’s not maximizing the talent on the roster any longer.
Hell, even Belichick was let go in New England today. Sometimes you just have to shake hands, say thanks for what you did, and find a new voice.
He’s had very talented teams recently that just are not responding and he’s not maximizing the talent on the roster any longer.
Road games are hard...but Tad is one of the worst ATS in the country on the road
Tad's had a lot of disappointments with neutral games, too.
I think that there's a good case to be made here that CU's home court advantage is much greater than we realize and that's skewing things on home & away records compared to the norm.
But that would only account for losing more often than not at the ASUs of the world. It doesn't explain the Cal games or, fvck, disasters like the trip to Grambling last year.
Whelp, that's the nail in the coffin for my feelings about this group. Fun, talented, but soft.
Preview for tomorrow's game - https://cubuffs.com/news/2024/1/12/mens-basketball-buffs-return-home-host-usc-saturday
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Game 17 - USC, Saturday, Jan. 13, 2024
CU Events Center, Boulder, Colo.
Tip: 8:05 p.m. MT
TV: ESPN2 (Dave Pasch, Bill Walton)
Watch Online: WatchESPN
Radio: KOA 850 AM & 94.1 FM (Mark Johnson, Scott Wilke)
Satellite: Sirius XM 373 & SXM App (Pac12)
Listen Online: CUBuffs.com
Live Statistics: http://statb.us/b/483975
THE BUFFALOES: Colorado is 11-5 overall and 2-3 in the Pac-12 Conference after dropping three-straight on tough seven-day road trip. The Buffaloes were swept by the Arizona schools last week and fell 82-78 at California on Jan. 10, dropping three in a row for the first time since late in the 2022-23 season. Colorado has lost its last five true road games, three of those coming against ranked opponents.
Colorado returns to the friendly confines of the CU Events Center where the Buffaloes are a perfect 9-0 this season. A win over USC would mark Colorado's 500th in the facility which opened for the 1979-80 season (499-190, .724).
In its nine home games this season, Colorado is averaging 87.4 points and winning by a margin of nearly 20 per game (+19.8). The Buffaloes are shooting 53.8 percent from the field, including 45.3 percent from 3-point range, while enjoying a plus-12 advantage on the boards.
Overall, Colorado is one of the top all-around shooting teams in the country, ranking in the top 21 nationally in all three percentage categories: overall field goal, 3-point and free throws. The Buffaloes are 10th in the nation in 3-point shooting (.396), 11th in overall field goal percentage (.505) and 21st from the line (.769).
...
ABOUT THE TROJANS: USC is 8-8 overall and 2-3 in the Pac-12 coming off a 72-64 home loss to Washington State on Jan. 10. The Trojans are 1-3 in true road games this season, with the lone win coming at Alabama State on Dec. 19. USC averages 77.9 points while shooting 45.6 percent from the field. Defensively, the Trojans
have allowed 74.8 points while opponents shoot 43.7 percent. USC ranks third in the Pac-12 in blocks at 4.6 per game.
Fifth-year senior Boogie Ellis leads USC at 18.7 points per game. One of the nation's top 3-point shooters, Ellis has 51 on the season hitting 45.5 percent from long range. His 3.4 made per game ranks ninth in NCAA Division I. Freshman guard Isaiah Collier averages 15.4 points and leads the team in assists with 61. Kobe Johnson averages 11.6 points with a team-best 30 steals. Joshua Morgan averages 6.3 points on 69.2 percent shooting and is 15th in the country in blocks at 2.3 per game.
SERIES RECORDS: This will be the 27th meeting between Colorado and USC with the Buffaloes holding a 16-10 series lead. USC has won the last three, including a season-sweep in 2022-23. Colorado has won eight of 12 all-time meetings against the Trojans in Boulder.
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Buffs Return Home, Host USC Saturday
By: Troy Andre, Associate Director/Athletic CommunicationsGame 17 - USC, Saturday, Jan. 13, 2024
CU Events Center, Boulder, Colo.
Tip: 8:05 p.m. MT
TV: ESPN2 (Dave Pasch, Bill Walton)
Watch Online: WatchESPN
Radio: KOA 850 AM & 94.1 FM (Mark Johnson, Scott Wilke)
Satellite: Sirius XM 373 & SXM App (Pac12)
Listen Online: CUBuffs.com
Live Statistics: http://statb.us/b/483975
THE BUFFALOES: Colorado is 11-5 overall and 2-3 in the Pac-12 Conference after dropping three-straight on tough seven-day road trip. The Buffaloes were swept by the Arizona schools last week and fell 82-78 at California on Jan. 10, dropping three in a row for the first time since late in the 2022-23 season. Colorado has lost its last five true road games, three of those coming against ranked opponents.
Colorado returns to the friendly confines of the CU Events Center where the Buffaloes are a perfect 9-0 this season. A win over USC would mark Colorado's 500th in the facility which opened for the 1979-80 season (499-190, .724).
In its nine home games this season, Colorado is averaging 87.4 points and winning by a margin of nearly 20 per game (+19.8). The Buffaloes are shooting 53.8 percent from the field, including 45.3 percent from 3-point range, while enjoying a plus-12 advantage on the boards.
Overall, Colorado is one of the top all-around shooting teams in the country, ranking in the top 21 nationally in all three percentage categories: overall field goal, 3-point and free throws. The Buffaloes are 10th in the nation in 3-point shooting (.396), 11th in overall field goal percentage (.505) and 21st from the line (.769).
...
ABOUT THE TROJANS: USC is 8-8 overall and 2-3 in the Pac-12 coming off a 72-64 home loss to Washington State on Jan. 10. The Trojans are 1-3 in true road games this season, with the lone win coming at Alabama State on Dec. 19. USC averages 77.9 points while shooting 45.6 percent from the field. Defensively, the Trojans
have allowed 74.8 points while opponents shoot 43.7 percent. USC ranks third in the Pac-12 in blocks at 4.6 per game.
Fifth-year senior Boogie Ellis leads USC at 18.7 points per game. One of the nation's top 3-point shooters, Ellis has 51 on the season hitting 45.5 percent from long range. His 3.4 made per game ranks ninth in NCAA Division I. Freshman guard Isaiah Collier averages 15.4 points and leads the team in assists with 61. Kobe Johnson averages 11.6 points with a team-best 30 steals. Joshua Morgan averages 6.3 points on 69.2 percent shooting and is 15th in the country in blocks at 2.3 per game.
SERIES RECORDS: This will be the 27th meeting between Colorado and USC with the Buffaloes holding a 16-10 series lead. USC has won the last three, including a season-sweep in 2022-23. Colorado has won eight of 12 all-time meetings against the Trojans in Boulder.
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What part of London are you staying in?
Falconetti
Well-Known Member
Can we go back to supporting our team and maybe think it is ok that we had a flunk low during the season as always happen during any basketball season?
I don’t care about the injuries…don’t care about the teams we should’ve beat…but sure do agree in game mgmt has been soso, but I’m def not an expert.
In the end, I went to games w Harrington as a coach and abs loved Donnie Boyce…and then he breaks his leg…was supposed to go NBA and nada after that. I loved how he went to the hoop. Was beautiful compared to what had been. Was exstatic when we made the tourney and beat the sh!t out of Indiana with Patton. All good guys. But jeeez, the gym was empty…I could sit anywhere, unless it was KU.
Thiiiis…I gave hope, I have belief, I think Tad has done a lot of extremely goooood. Can we wait to chop his head off until the end of the season, plz?
I don’t care about the injuries…don’t care about the teams we should’ve beat…but sure do agree in game mgmt has been soso, but I’m def not an expert.
In the end, I went to games w Harrington as a coach and abs loved Donnie Boyce…and then he breaks his leg…was supposed to go NBA and nada after that. I loved how he went to the hoop. Was beautiful compared to what had been. Was exstatic when we made the tourney and beat the sh!t out of Indiana with Patton. All good guys. But jeeez, the gym was empty…I could sit anywhere, unless it was KU.
Thiiiis…I gave hope, I have belief, I think Tad has done a lot of extremely goooood. Can we wait to chop his head off until the end of the season, plz?
I WANT A TRAPPER HAT!!!!
Why do they never sell those after the first XXX are given away?
We're going to be in the tough Big 12 next season. Got to think how CU matches up against that conference plus UA, ASU, and Utah.
Covent Garden.
I’m definitely not advocating for Tad to be fired mid season, but he’s been here 14 years and never finished better than 3rd in the conference, and has only done that twice during that stretch I believe.
He’s a good coach and got CU to a nice spot, but he seems to have maxed out. A high floor but low ceiling hamster wheel right now. I support the team, but also believe it might be time for a new voice in the locker room.
As someone who has followed the basketball program in the Tad era, I'll take the high floor. Compare Tad to the coaches that came before. This is a program that went to the NCAA tournament 2 times from 1977-2010.
Given our history, it seems likely that Tad's successor will have less success than him, not more (unless institutional support of the basketball program changes). Even if, by some miracle, we hire a coach who wins the conference or makes a Sweet 16 run, how confident are you that coach won't immediately leave for a better opportunity?
I think what is especially frustrating about this 3-game skid is that this team is probably the most talented team on paper in the Tad Boyle era, but we know the window is likely just this year as we lose Tristan de Silva and likely Cody Williams. So the urgency to win now is at a peak.
I can totally understand this perspective. I’m looking at it from the pov that we can’t allow a fear of failure to prevent CU from possibly taking that next step, especially in the Big12.
Luke
Well-Known Member
Thanks Falicinetti! Yes, let’s “go back to supporting our team.” Fire Tad contingency is just being silly. He’s rare coach that got a lifetime contract for a reason: he’s elite in player development (see article below; the company we keep for getting guys to NBA is elite). When sports illustrated did advanced metrics article, called Tad‘s program “statistical anomaly” because he’s gotten guys rated in 200 (McKinnley)-500 (George King) to NBA- making Tad #1 in getting lower ranked guys to the NBA. Considering our program’s poor history & fans not showing up because there’s too many other great things to do in Boulder-Tad’s doing great!
Finding gems: How top coaches look beyond the star rankings to evaluate players
Mark Few, Bill Self, John Beilein and Tony Bennett talk about what they look for in a recruit.
theathletic.com
Re: USC: Hate to see any injuries, but we caught a break with USC’s Collier’s injury. MileHighUp-Tempo/ transition D/ guarding paint seem to be keys versus USC’s great guard play & recently improving young bigs of USC. Big Picture trending favorably 4CU:
1) Extra covid year&portal causing W Coast talent to fall through cracks; so teams like Buffs getting better talent recently. Proof is in the increase of tourney invites to Mtn West & continued strength of WCC. While PAC invites have decreased; due-to poor non-conf showings recently. See article below.
Finding gems: Value mined on West Coast, overseas prospects
In the final installment of our series, we look at how geography influences destiny for college and NBA hopefuls.
theathletic.com
2) BIG12 Improves CU’s Strength of Schedule; more chances for Quad 1 & 2 wins, makes occasional Quad4 losses less important. As long as NCAA keeps using NET as primary tool, big conferences benifit.
3) Last year as PAC-12 is headed toward record low NCAA invites(2-3?). Buffs can’t afford many more bad loses (like FSU/Cal). Buffs need couple more Quad1Wins (top-75 NET on road) for NCAA invite. PAC’s NET: Utah30/Buffs 40/Ducks50/U-Dub60-only teams (outside of Arizona) w/ real shot at NCAA invite? USC’s NET80 & ASU’s 100 trending as PAC-spoilers? Let’s hope Duck’s don’t get N’Faly Dante back from injury by the time they play CU next week.GO BUFFS!
Luke
Well-Known Member
I will second Falicinetti’s (and other’s) comments that Tad’s in-game adjustments are not always everything that I would want. I absolutely hate USC & ASU’s coaches for how negative they are to their players (& consequently lose high number of guys to portal every year)- but Hurley makes elite half-time adjustments. And USC’s Enfield consistently plays 10 or 11 deep in his up-temp offense; where-as Tad tends to shorten bench in close games. But Tad’s players Show Way-more year-to-year improvement than these & most of PAC programs. Tad will have some real competition for elite player development in BIG12 w/ Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, and maybe BYU (Jury still out w/ Coach Pope’s culture of “Faith & Joy”).
In Coach Boyles defense for his in-game adjustments, One of the big reasons that great players want to play for him is that he gives guards the key’s to the offense & gives all his guys an elite level of freedom on offense (if they defend and rebound). He does not micromanage in-game; He believes if his players play games the same way they practice, they will win. And he trusts his players to just to run the offense, and doesn’t even call last minute/second plays. I used to love to watch the face of freshmen, in the first last second game of the season, when they realized he was only gonna talk about defense & rebounding most of the time-out. Then at the very end of the time-out he tells all 5 guys to shoot it with confidence, if they get open. Then the point guard turns to the two hottest hands and says get open to them. I love that level of trust in his players to run efficient offense, but it tends to breed a lack of elite in-game adjustments. His in-game adjustments consist of pulling guys that aren’t playing defense, rebounding, and taking good shots on offense. I agree that this model requires a certain level of mental toughness, which Buff’s haven’t always had at an elite level (beyond McKinley, Battey, & a few others). Can Tad teach it, by developing great character-guys (like he does) & let those upper-class men help teach that mental toughness to underclass men? Or does Todd need to recruit more toughness? Probably a little of both. But, that to me, is the biggest question in our program’s progress. When I look at program’s strengths in the Big12, I see us being able to solidify a spot in the second tier (regularly finish 5-9 range w/ NCAA invites) fairly quickly. Partially due-to Tad’s culture is a better fit there than high O/& mostly defense-less PAC-12. Interestingly, KSU’s Tang & (lesser so OSU’s Boyton) are BIG-12 coaches that also give their teams a lot of freedom- & Tang absolutely destroying it on recruiting & in-game adjustments by pulling guys. So that may bode well for Tad vs. BIG-12‘s mostly more methodical play-styles (KU & Baylor notable exceptions). Go Tad! GO BUFFS!
In Coach Boyles defense for his in-game adjustments, One of the big reasons that great players want to play for him is that he gives guards the key’s to the offense & gives all his guys an elite level of freedom on offense (if they defend and rebound). He does not micromanage in-game; He believes if his players play games the same way they practice, they will win. And he trusts his players to just to run the offense, and doesn’t even call last minute/second plays. I used to love to watch the face of freshmen, in the first last second game of the season, when they realized he was only gonna talk about defense & rebounding most of the time-out. Then at the very end of the time-out he tells all 5 guys to shoot it with confidence, if they get open. Then the point guard turns to the two hottest hands and says get open to them. I love that level of trust in his players to run efficient offense, but it tends to breed a lack of elite in-game adjustments. His in-game adjustments consist of pulling guys that aren’t playing defense, rebounding, and taking good shots on offense. I agree that this model requires a certain level of mental toughness, which Buff’s haven’t always had at an elite level (beyond McKinley, Battey, & a few others). Can Tad teach it, by developing great character-guys (like he does) & let those upper-class men help teach that mental toughness to underclass men? Or does Todd need to recruit more toughness? Probably a little of both. But, that to me, is the biggest question in our program’s progress. When I look at program’s strengths in the Big12, I see us being able to solidify a spot in the second tier (regularly finish 5-9 range w/ NCAA invites) fairly quickly. Partially due-to Tad’s culture is a better fit there than high O/& mostly defense-less PAC-12. Interestingly, KSU’s Tang & (lesser so OSU’s Boyton) are BIG-12 coaches that also give their teams a lot of freedom- & Tang absolutely destroying it on recruiting & in-game adjustments by pulling guys. So that may bode well for Tad vs. BIG-12‘s mostly more methodical play-styles (KU & Baylor notable exceptions). Go Tad! GO BUFFS!
Luke
Well-Known Member
With keeping in my lane of the most long-winded responses you could ever want:
- I probably need to include Arizona in BIG12 lists above for both elite player development & freedom on offense. But CU’s elite standing in these 2 areas, may get more win percentages in BIG12. Maybe more importantly, Buffs will have to buy-in to Tad’s elite D-cause they’ll see more if it in BIG12.
- I wouldn’t be giving Todd his fair share, if I also didn’t acknowledge that strength of his in-game adjustments may be D adjustments:
- His usually strong ball screen defense has longer to materialize this year. Maybe due-to players needing to learn more on offensive side with 5-Out? &/or not seeing same ball-screen coverages in practice they’re used to, as they are seeing 5-Out in practice more.
- Not many teams are built to switch 1-5, even if it’s been mostly switching ball screens 1-5 this year. But Tad’s teams are consistently built for that. It gives him a lot of defensive flexibility at the end of half’s. If you listen to his coaching philosophy, he wants to: 1) go small at least five minutes a half, to see what kind of matchups he gets out of it; and 2) go with team-make-up that has the best matchups at the end of each half. That is why some games you see his fourth and fifth guards with high number of minutes, and other games it’s the third and fourth Biggs with more minutes. It’s easy for us to forget that that’s One of his primary ways to make in-game adjustments: substitution patterns. We just see new guys coming in; We don’t always realize that his substitutions allow for his final defensive adjustments. Which then seem to minimize his substitutions in the last five minutes, which I am not always a fan of; but I can’t always see/don’t always know the more subtle reasons for his final rotations of each half’s.
- this year’s team has shown some good aptitude for pressing, when we’ve used it. But, as in previous years, the team has not shown as much aptitude for running a zone defense or playing against zone defenses. I’ve always assumed it’s because they just can’t practice as much against it, when you’re a committed man defensive team. But to also give him credit, he wants to play w/ temp at Colorado’s elevation; and his team consistently seem more prepared to speed teams up w/ press’ versus slow-down zones.
- I probably need to include Arizona in BIG12 lists above for both elite player development & freedom on offense. But CU’s elite standing in these 2 areas, may get more win percentages in BIG12. Maybe more importantly, Buffs will have to buy-in to Tad’s elite D-cause they’ll see more if it in BIG12.
- I wouldn’t be giving Todd his fair share, if I also didn’t acknowledge that strength of his in-game adjustments may be D adjustments:
- His usually strong ball screen defense has longer to materialize this year. Maybe due-to players needing to learn more on offensive side with 5-Out? &/or not seeing same ball-screen coverages in practice they’re used to, as they are seeing 5-Out in practice more.
- Not many teams are built to switch 1-5, even if it’s been mostly switching ball screens 1-5 this year. But Tad’s teams are consistently built for that. It gives him a lot of defensive flexibility at the end of half’s. If you listen to his coaching philosophy, he wants to: 1) go small at least five minutes a half, to see what kind of matchups he gets out of it; and 2) go with team-make-up that has the best matchups at the end of each half. That is why some games you see his fourth and fifth guards with high number of minutes, and other games it’s the third and fourth Biggs with more minutes. It’s easy for us to forget that that’s One of his primary ways to make in-game adjustments: substitution patterns. We just see new guys coming in; We don’t always realize that his substitutions allow for his final defensive adjustments. Which then seem to minimize his substitutions in the last five minutes, which I am not always a fan of; but I can’t always see/don’t always know the more subtle reasons for his final rotations of each half’s.
- this year’s team has shown some good aptitude for pressing, when we’ve used it. But, as in previous years, the team has not shown as much aptitude for running a zone defense or playing against zone defenses. I’ve always assumed it’s because they just can’t practice as much against it, when you’re a committed man defensive team. But to also give him credit, he wants to play w/ temp at Colorado’s elevation; and his team consistently seem more prepared to speed teams up w/ press’ versus slow-down zones.
Tad said this week, and has remarked on this over the years:
“One thing I love about the old football coach, coach (Bill) McCartney, is the ‘Mental is to physical as four is to one.’ That’s all it is,” CU head coach Tad Boyle said.
Tad is the epitome of the 'nice guy' and his players are mostly the same. Every year we lack tough guys, the necessary mental attitude.
A loud full house at the keg seems to cure that. Go Buffs, beat SC!
“One thing I love about the old football coach, coach (Bill) McCartney, is the ‘Mental is to physical as four is to one.’ That’s all it is,” CU head coach Tad Boyle said.
Tad is the epitome of the 'nice guy' and his players are mostly the same. Every year we lack tough guys, the necessary mental attitude.
A loud full house at the keg seems to cure that. Go Buffs, beat SC!
Robert Sorell
Well-Known Member
The funniest thing about all of this is that the last two losses were by a combined 7 points. TDS cans a wide open 3 and the Cal game is likely a win.
We all shouldn't have gotten so damn high on the close wins by the football team to start the year, and the sky is not actually falling right now.
We all shouldn't have gotten so damn high on the close wins by the football team to start the year, and the sky is not actually falling right now.
I'm sitting right by @ZandiBuff , pray for me