Games thread- MEN'S bball hosts Oregon (Thurs., 1/5/23, 7:00 MT; ESPN2), and OSU (Sat., 7:30 PM MT, Pac 12 Networks)

[4BienemyTDs]

Lawson has 3 foul.

Also,
Obviously KJ was the defensive problem

I have not commented again about LL and said I would take 5 games off to assess my viewpoint on him
LL is a backup Center at best for us!
Great kid, nice to slide a 7 footer in on the second unit
LOB took his minutes and played great
NEED a big athletic 1-2 year transfer that wants to join what will be a stud team in 23-24 and 24-25
That is all
Great win
Go Buffs

 

[buffaholic]

Noel Woelk’s salary needs to be converted to NIL funding.

 

[pmoney52]

NEED a big athletic 1-2 year transfer that wants to join what will be a stud team in 23-24 and 24-25

Not going to happen. My guess is your either looking at an under sized Josh Scott playing somewhere in like the Big Sky whose speed and size will be exposed in a bigger conference or a “more athletic” 7 footer whose offense is just as lacking as LL (last night was a perfect example)…I don’t think any of those are an upgrade. As someone else pointed out either in this thread or somewhere else, the recruits ahead of LL aren’t much of an upgrade if at all.

also the minutes LL gave last night I thought were good. Great defense. Dude consistently blocks out (and well). Watch him when the shot goes up. He always finds a man to stick.

his offense is what it is at this point. he has terrible hands which you can’t really coach. Maybe it improves. Maybe it doesn’t. But the prospect that you can replace him with something better without sacrificing what he does give you (and gives you well) is poor. IMO

 

[Chautauqua]

This is the most Jekyll and Hyde CU team I've ever seen. I honestly think they can win or lose against any team in the country on any given night. Given the quad 8 loss against Cal they will need to win the PAC-12 tournament to dance, which they might. They also might lose an opening round game to give Cal their second PAC-12 win of the season.

This was best game of both De Silva and Hammond's career. It was like KJ Simpson's (or maybe Coach Prime's) swagger was somehow transferred to both of them.

De Silva played like he knew NBA scouts were in the building. In the second half he was toying with Oregon's 7-foot McDonald's All-American. Sure, the Oregon guy had a couple of blocks but De Silva was bobbing and weaving like a point guard, using his body as a shield to get uncontested layups and dunks. That is impressive for a 6' 10" guy. Then he pulled out the Carmelo jab step three from the corner and started running down the court like Steph before it even went in. He was scoring at all three levels. Why can't we get this version of De Silva every night? If he played like this every night he would be on NBA draft boards.

As for Hammond, this is the polar opposite of his night against ASU. Against ASU in the second half he look shook. He didn't want the ball in his hands and was desperately trying to get rid of it to an ASU player. But tonight, I witnessed a back to back sequence where he had a filthy block/steal to transition assist bucket followed by a deflection steal to transition assist. On a broken play he got into the lane and hit a floater as the shot clock expired. What even is this?

Anyway, I think everyone was in the dumps after that Cal loss. It's easy to forget these are wildly inconsistent college kids. But props to the whole team tonight and De Silva and Hammond in particular.

 

[cu3x]

By the end of his senior year. LL will be Honorable Mention, all-P12.
If I had any money left in my betting account, I'd almost bet on that.

When a super-player like KJ is on the floor, the other players often see as their goal, getting the ball to him, letting him lead. To some extent, that inhibits the other guy's 'flows'. I think Tad commented on this early in the year, specifically with regard to TDS - that he needed to take his shots more, rather than passing off. Like the reverse spin LOB did, down low. If KJ was in the game, he might have looked to pass to him instead. We're a better team with KJ playing, but players need to realize they can still make their plays.
Of course, this followed several days of Tad's displeasure at practice, and came in what was as bad a showing as any 'power' team could put on. They stunk as bad as we did against Cal.

 

[RumblinBuff]

Never seen Dana so defeated.

 

[torero]

I have not commented again about LL and said I would take 5 games off to assess my viewpoint on him
LL is a backup Center at best for us!
Great kid, nice to slide a 7 footer in on the second unit
LOB took his minutes and played great
NEED a big athletic 1-2 year transfer that wants to join what will be a stud team in 23-24 and 24-25
That is all
Great win
Go Buffs

Oregon has two 5 star centers who scored 4 total points last night.

 

[Da Lama]

We did not swing and miss on QA. He's better than almost everyone on this team, Tad just doesn't like his playing style.

 

[Da Lama]

Just a couple quick points from last night:
- I'm thinking this team might slack a bit and rely on KJ too much when he's on the court. With him out last night everyone had to rally and actually play up to their potential. Interesting.
- I'm loving LOB and loving eating the crow for my preseason doubts. The kid has really stepped up.
- When Hammond plays "Hammond style" he's great. When Hammond tries to be KJ, things get scary.
- LL did a great job last night. He had to battle 3 rotating 7 footers and basically shut them all down. That group averages 27ppg and he held them to 7 pts total. (Had some help from LOB a bit too). His offense is rough, but the kid keeps us in games with defense and battling hard down low.
- Ruffin played very good defense last night and that's the last piece that needs to fall into place for him. He should take all of Wright's minutes when KJ and Gabbidon get back.
- Tristan can put up 20 and 5 every game. If he wants to...and that's an issue.
- Just once I'd like to see how Allen plays in an actual game flow situation.

 

[Darth Snow]

Just a couple quick points from last night:
- I'm thinking this team might slack a bit and rely on KJ too much when he's on the court. With him out last night everyone had to rally and actually play up to their potential. Interesting.
- I'm loving LOB and loving eating the crow for my preseason doubts. The kid has really stepped up.
- When Hammond plays "Hammond style" he's great. When Hammond tries to be KJ, things get scary.
- LL did a great job last night. He had to battle 3 rotating 7 footers and basically shut them all down. That group averages 27ppg and he held them to 7 pts total. (Had some help from LOB a bit too). His offense is rough, but the kid keeps us in games with defense and battling hard down low.
- Ruffin played very good defense last night and that's the last piece that needs to fall into place for him. He should take all of Wright's minutes when KJ and Gabbidon get back.
- Tristan can put up 20 and 5 every game. If he wants to...and that's an issue.
- Just once I'd like to see how Allen plays in an actual game flow situation.

Pretty much. Would love to see LOB out together a few games in a row with good 3 pt shooting. Otherwise he's been mostly great. He's never played with the confidence his athleticism should give him. It's nice to see that happening. Now if only our best shooter could shoot

 

[4BienemyTDs]

By the end of his senior year. LL will be Honorable Mention, all-P12.
If I had any money left in my betting account, I'd almost bet on that.

When a super-player like KJ is on the floor, the other players often see as their goal, getting the ball to him, letting him lead. To some extent, that inhibits the other guy's 'flows'. I think Tad commented on this early in the year, specifically with regard to TDS - that he needed to take his shots more, rather than passing off. Like the reverse spin LOB did, down low. If KJ was in the game, he might have looked to pass to him instead. We're a better team with KJ playing, but players need to realize they can still make their plays.
Of course, this followed several days of Tad's displeasure at practice, and came in what was as bad a showing as any 'power' team could put on. They stunk as bad as we did against Cal.

The team flowed and exploded offensively and defensively when LL was off the floor. LOB, TDS, Hadley and even Ruffin banged with those 7 footers and group rebounded like crazy. Tad used LOB instead as he too saw the flow of the defense and offense. LOB handled the ball, drove to the hoop, posted up, and has shot decent on 3 pointers.
Lawson’s numbers last night, sloppy fouls and better play by others shrunk his night.
20 min, 4 fouls, 4 turnovers, 0 points, 3 Reb, 2 Assists
If he were a 15 min backup center on our championship run next 2 years that will be perfect.

 

[Goose]

The team flowed and exploded offensively and defensively when LL was off the floor. LOB, TDS, Hadley and even Ruffin banged with those 7 footers and group rebounded like crazy. Tad used LOB instead as he too saw the flow of the defense and offense. LOB handled the ball, drove to the hoop, posted up, and has shot decent on 3 pointers.
Lawson’s numbers last night, sloppy fouls and better play by others shrunk his night.
20 min, 4 fouls, 4 turnovers, 0 points, 3 Reb, 2 Assists
If he were a 15 min backup center on our championship run next 2 years that will be perfect.

 

[Da Lama]

The team flowed and exploded offensively and defensively when LL was off the floor. LOB, TDS, Hadley and even Ruffin banged with those 7 footers and group rebounded like crazy. Tad used LOB instead as he too saw the flow of the defense and offense. LOB handled the ball, drove to the hoop, posted up, and has shot decent on 3 pointers.
Lawson’s numbers last night, sloppy fouls and better play by others shrunk his night.
20 min, 4 fouls, 4 turnovers, 0 points, 3 Reb, 2 Assists
If he were a 15 min backup center on our championship run next 2 years that will be perfect.

Honest question: Who fills that starting Center role next year? I do not believe there are better centers out there because 1) the position is dying and 2) we saw 3 of the highest rated centers in the last couple of years on our court last night and they were no better than LL.

I can see him losing a few minutes next year to a more active and athletic rotation, but I'm hard pressed to see what another center (if we could even get one) adds to the lineup.

 

[Goose]

I realize at this point that we might as well change Lawson's position to PG for all the cheerleading I do for him. I also realize that everyone should take my comments about him with a grain of salt. But I'm at the point where I don't care if he provides 3 turnovers a game, goes 0-3 from the field and basically causes us to play 4 on 5 on offense - he's THAT valuable on D. I don't care how you look at it, it's obvious. If you need the numbers - look at what he did to Oregon's bigs last night (with props to LOB and TDS for the help there as well). If you think that math is too simple, look at his advanced numbers - dude is leading the team in offensive rebounding percentage (397th nationally) and in block percentage (125th nationally). If you think all math is dumb, watch the game - he's out there calling all the defensive alignments and other team's plays out. He shoves guys into position.

It's not nineteen ninety-****ing-six guys. No one dumps the ball in the post and watches guys play. The only guys I can think of off of the top of my head that are focal points for their teams offense while being low post bruisers are Edey and Timme. Guards win! In Tad's scheme, bigs are expected to body up and rebound. Guess what? LAWSON DOES THAT! You want a big man that sits in the post and you can run the offense through? Well, first you'd better get one hell of a bag to get the one kid every 2-3 years who can do that for the one season he'll be in college (and that's going away soon). And you'd better get ready for the quality of our PG's to go down because no PG wants to come and throw the ball in the post and play with themselves while a 7 foot dude bodies up for 10 seconds before making a move.

There are legit complaints/criticisms about both Tad and Lawson's game that can be made. Unfortunately, it's drowned out by the stupidity because people don't realize that Shaquille O'Neal retired. I can't believe this is still a talking point. I'd rather read posts about ****ing kickers at this point.

 

[Da Lama]

I realize at this point that we might as well change Lawson's position to PG for all the cheerleading I do for him. I also realize that everyone should take my comments about him with a grain of salt. But I'm at the point where I don't care if he provides 3 turnovers a game, goes 0-3 from the field and basically causes us to play 4 on 5 on offense - he's THAT valuable on D. I don't care how you look at it, it's obvious. If you need the numbers - look at what he did to Oregon's bigs last night (with props to LOB and TDS for the help there as well). If you think that math is too simple, look at his advanced numbers - dude is leading the team in offensive rebounding percentage (397th nationally) and in block percentage (125th nationally). If you think all math is dumb, watch the game - he's out there calling all the defensive alignments and other team's plays out. He shoves guys into position.

It's not nineteen ninety-****ing-six guys. No one dumps the ball in the post and watches guys play. The only guys I can think of off of the top of my head that are focal points for their teams offense while being low post bruisers are Edey and Timme. Guards win! In Tad's scheme, bigs are expected to body up and rebound. Guess what? LAWSON DOES THAT! You want a big man that sits in the post and you can run the offense through? Well, first you'd better get one hell of a bag to get the one kid every 2-3 years who can do that for the one season he'll be in college (and that's going away soon). And you'd better get ready for the quality of our PG's to go down because no PG wants to come and throw the ball in the post and play with themselves while a 7 foot dude bodies up for 10 seconds before making a move.

There are legit complaints/criticisms about both Tad and Lawson's game that can be made. Unfortunately, it's drowned out by the stupidity because people don't realize that Shaquille O'Neal retired. I can't believe this is still a talking point. I'd rather read posts about ****ing kickers at this point.

I would also argue the offense goes a bit stagmant without him out there setting picks and clearing space. Lots of dudes just standing on the perimeter in those instances.

 

[RumblinBuff]

This program has a history of looking really good *for one game* when one of the 1 or 2 best players is out. Eagerly anticipating KJ's return Saturday.

Oregon was a good matchup for us; thought as much headed to the stadium. Maybe not 27 points worth, but they're not bruisers, can't shoot 3s, rely too much on aggressive athleticism; we can work them, and did.

Lawson continues to be good at all those things that don't involve the big orange bouncy thing. If he ever gets a solve for that 'x' in any meaningful fashion, look the hell out.

LOB has been showing some things since he returned from whatever it was in mid-Dec that was keeping him out. *Really* enjoying his minutes right now.

TDS is going to give me an aneurysm on the defensive/rebounding side of the ball. Thank you for the 30-burger, but... my god in heaven sir, this ain't bullfighting. *Try* and stay in front of your guy.

Saw Gabbidon in a knee brace at the stadium -- is he going to be out a bit?

Nique? Not a perfect game, but 5-6 from inside the arc, 3 assists. Helped run some breaks. Solid defensively. I'll take it? Like... at this point, if I'm expecting some TBey **** from him, that's on me.

Finally, big props to Julian -- had a moment to shine and grabbed it. Showed out. Showed the *former* CU pg in the building how it's done.

Dana being sad is my favorite Dana. The hack-fraud in his element.

 

[Darth Snow]

This program has a history of looking really good *for one game* when one of the 1 or 2 best players is out. Eagerly anticipating KJ's return Saturday.

Oregon was a good matchup for us; thought as much headed to the stadium. Maybe not 27 points worth, but they're not bruisers, can't shoot 3s, rely too much on aggressive athleticism; we can work them, and did.

Lawson continues to be good at all those things that don't involve the big orange bouncy thing. If he ever gets a solve for that 'x' in any meaningful fashion, look the hell out.

LOB has been showing some things since he returned from whatever it was in mid-Dec that was keeping him out. *Really* enjoying his minutes right now.

TDS is going to give me an aneurysm on the defensive/rebounding side of the ball. Thank you for the 30-burger, but... my god in heaven sir, this ain't bullfighting. *Try* and stay in front of your guy.

Saw Gabbidon in a knee brace at the stadium -- is he going to be out a bit?

Nique? Not a perfect game, but 5-6 from inside the arc, 3 assists. Helped run some breaks. Solid defensively. I'll take it? Like... at this point, if I'm expecting some TBey **** from him, that's on me.

Finally, big props to Julian -- had a moment to shine and grabbed it. Showed out. Showed the *former* CU pg in the building how it's done.

Dana being sad is my favorite Dana. The hack-fraud in his element.

Did the former CU PG play? I didn't notice him. Thanks for posting. keep doing it!

Disagree on Nique defensively. He was responsible for roughly a 1/4 of Oregon's points by playing OLE on defense, especially early. He got better though. @Ruckus and I have a theory that the more **** we talk about him, the better he will play during a game.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

Suck it EDIT: Sorry for being so rude. I am applying the Coach Prime mentality to the BB team. Recruit via the transfer portal over any flaws you might have.

Next year is not just some potentially cute little CU team, it is the BEST potential team we likely have ever had.

OK, let's play Lawson in a lineup with KJ, TDS, Cody Williams, and Hadley and we will be in the Final 4 with no problem at all according to all of you.

If there is an athletic upperclassman 6'-11" guy that has developed a solid game, he needs to be found and brought in. If LL continues to develop, like a young 7-footer will, and beats him out and we get to the final 4 with him, then awesome and I will cheer for him. But, if you are all convinced that he is already the best possible player for that role, let's ride (or die)

KJ - Julian
Hadley - Ruffin
TDS - Quincy
Cody - LOB - Diop
Transfer - Lawson - Joe?


PS - We may not get Cody Williams on campus because of the G-League Ignite or some other thing that happens. But, if he comes, it might be a Carmello Anthony situation and that is why I want us to treat the next two years as hair-on-fire time.

 

[Ruckus]

Nique? Not a perfect game, but 5-6 from inside the arc, 3 assists. Helped run some breaks. Solid defensively. I'll take it?

Love all your post except this bit about solid defense from Nique. Dude was like your complaint about TDS. Can’t keep anyone in front of him. Glad he was able to put together a good offensive night against good competition as that had been severely lacking this season. Still wish we had guys to take some of his minutes.

Edit: @Darth Snow Kee has an ankle injury and hasn’t played since 11/20.

 

[RumblinBuff]

Did the former CU PG play? I didn't notice him. Thanks for posting. keep doing it!

Disagree on Nique defensively. He was responsible for roughly a 1/4 of Oregon's points by playing OLE on defense, especially early. He got better though. @Ruckus and I have a theory that the more **** we talk about him, the better he will play during a game.

That's my TDS rule. Slander = results.

 

[Darth Snow]

That's my TDS rule. Slander = results.

@Goose also follows that rule. 3 minutes in, i get the text: "We got the bad TDS tonight".

 

[torero]

If there is an athletic upperclassman 6'-11" guy that has developed a solid game, he needs to be found and brought in.

Who? Who is this mythical guy? He doesn't exist. That's why everyone keeps dunking on you.

 

[Goose]

Suck it, I am applying the Coach Prime mentality to the BB team. Recruit via the transfer portal over any flaws you might have.

Next year is not just some potentially cute little CU team, it is the BEST potential team we likely have ever had.

OK, let's play Lawson in a lineup with KJ, TDS, Cody Williams, and Hadley and we will be in the Final 4 with no problem at all according to all of you.

If there is an athletic upperclassman 6'-11" guy that has developed a solid game, he needs to be found and brought in. If LL continues to develop, like a young 7-footer will, and beats him out and we get to the final 4 with him, then awesome and I will cheer for him. But, if you are all convinced that he is already the best possible player for that role, let's ride (or die)

KJ - Julian
Hadley - Ruffin
TDS - Quincy
Cody - LOB - Diop
Transfer - Lawson - Joe?


PS - We may not get Cody Williams on campus because of the G-League Ignite or some other thing that happens. But, if he comes, it might be a Carmello Anthony situation and that is why I want us to treat the next two years as hair-on-fire time.

I had a long response written out, but the ****ing computer ate it. So let's try it again with less patience.

1.) Yes, if there's an athletic upperclassman big man who has a solid game we should bring him in. Good ****ing call! I'm also keeping an eye on Kate Upton in case she wants to be an au pair.

2.) Your lineup is ****ing awful. Hadley isn't in the backcourt. Williams isn't in the front. Diop is probably redshirting. Quincy probably wont' be in the rotation. Hurlburt isn't a center. Where's Clifford? Where's Smith? Where's numerous other guys that have shown more than players whose names you've heard of so you threw them on there?

3.) Williams might only be a one year player?!? HOLY ****! Have you shared that with Tad? I'm sure in the three ****ing years he's been recruiting him and discussing his future plans. Not only that, but I'm thinking Tad may want to start trying to recruit good players. He hasn't thought of that at all.

4.) Finally, and I can't believe how many times people have to point this out to you - FINAL FOURS ARE INCREDIBLY HARD AND INCREDIBLY LUCKY. You can have the best damn team in the nation but it's a single elimination tournament. Lightning strikes. Our goal next year is to make a S16. Our goal is to win a regular season title. With that lineup, are those things possible? **** YES. That's a GOOD LINEUP. You have scoring (KJ). You have playmaking (Williams). You have grit (Hadley). You have defense (Lawson) and you have an all around player (TDS). Could that lineup make the F4? Considering some of the teams that have made F4's in the last few years, yes. No one is saying we shouldn't be trying to improve. We're saying you have to be realistic.

You coming in and saying "We should improve on Lawson with a legit big man who is athletic and has a solid game" is like saying "The Buffs should have avoided Lewis and Shrout last year and gone for that Caleb Williams guy. What was the staff thinking?"

 

[Tony G.]

Not going to happen. My guess is your either looking at an under sized Josh Scott playing somewhere in like the Big Sky whose speed and size will be exposed in a bigger conference or a “more athletic” 7 footer whose offense is just as lacking as LL (last night was a perfect example)…I don’t think any of those are an upgrade. As someone else pointed out either in this thread or somewhere else, the recruits ahead of LL aren’t much of an upgrade if at all.

also the minutes LL gave last night I thought were good. Great defense. Dude consistently blocks out (and well). Watch him when the shot goes up. He always finds a man to stick.

his offense is what it is at this point. he has terrible hands which you can’t really coach. Maybe it improves. Maybe it doesn’t. But the prospect that you can replace him with something better without sacrificing what he does give you (and gives you well) is poor. IMO

His hands are terrible, but believe it or not they have improved immensely since last year. Hopefully he takes another step next year. His Defense is solid although last night he kept jumping at outside pump fakes from big men. He exposed himself a bit, but Oregon was terrible and didn't take advantage of it.

 

[Highlander]

Who? Who is this mythical guy? He doesn't exist. That's why everyone keeps dunking on you.

 

[leftybuff]

Fun game. Love seeing Altman seethe on the sideline.

 

[RumblinBuff]

Love all your post except this bit about solid defense from Nique. Dude was like your complaint about TDS. Can’t keep anyone in front of him. Glad he was able to put together a good offensive night against good competition as that had been severely lacking this season. Still wish we had guys to take some of his minutes.

Edit: @Darth Snow Kee has an ankle injury and hasn’t played since 11/20.

*shrugs* Nique spent a lot of the game guarding Richardson. He finished with 5 points and 1 assist. Yeah, a lot of imperfect defensive possessions, but the overall product was OK. The length really bothered Richardson. 2nd half, Nique caught my eye a lot in positive ways on the defensive end. Hence the comment.

I get it if people disagree on it, though. His performance, defensively, wasn't as clear-cut as others.

 

[Not Sure]

I realize at this point that we might as well change Lawson's position to PG for all the cheerleading I do for him. I also realize that everyone should take my comments about him with a grain of salt. But I'm at the point where I don't care if he provides 3 turnovers a game, goes 0-3 from the field and basically causes us to play 4 on 5 on offense - he's THAT valuable on D. I don't care how you look at it, it's obvious. If you need the numbers - look at what he did to Oregon's bigs last night (with props to LOB and TDS for the help there as well). If you think that math is too simple, look at his advanced numbers - dude is leading the team in offensive rebounding percentage (397th nationally) and in block percentage (125th nationally). If you think all math is dumb, watch the game - he's out there calling all the defensive alignments and other team's plays out. He shoves guys into position.

It's not nineteen ninety-****ing-six guys. No one dumps the ball in the post and watches guys play. The only guys I can think of off of the top of my head that are focal points for their teams offense while being low post bruisers are Edey and Timme. Guards win! In Tad's scheme, bigs are expected to body up and rebound. Guess what? LAWSON DOES THAT! You want a big man that sits in the post and you can run the offense through? Well, first you'd better get one hell of a bag to get the one kid every 2-3 years who can do that for the one season he'll be in college (and that's going away soon). And you'd better get ready for the quality of our PG's to go down because no PG wants to come and throw the ball in the post and play with themselves while a 7 foot dude bodies up for 10 seconds before making a move.

There are legit complaints/criticisms about both Tad and Lawson's game that can be made. Unfortunately, it's drowned out by the stupidity because people don't realize that Shaquille O'Neal retired. I can't believe this is still a talking point. I'd rather read posts about ****ing kickers at this point.

LL is a ****ty kicker.

 

[Goose]

LL is a ****ty kicker.

Should probably go get Drew Timme and give him a shot at the job.

 

[Da Lama]

His hands are terrible, but believe it or not they have improved immensely since last year. Hopefully he takes another step next year. His Defense is solid although last night he kept jumping at outside pump fakes from big men. He exposed himself a bit, but Oregon was terrible and didn't take advantage of it.

"Jumping at outside pump fakes"
< Nique Clifford has entered the chat... >