Games thread- MEN'S BBALL on the road at ASU (Thursday, 2/16/23, 6:00 PM MT; Pac 12 Network) & #8 Arizona (Saturday, 6:00 PM MT, ESPN2)

[Goose]

2 fouls in the first 8 minutes of the game. You sit him in that situation.

Sorry man, you’re wrong. So is Tad. Tons of analysis has been done on this and it’s the wrong move.

 

[Scotch]

Sorry man, you’re wrong. So is Tad. Tons of analysis has been done on this and it’s the wrong move.

Last night it was damned if you do damned if you don't, they weren't winning either way. I agree he probably sat him for too long.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

Last night it was damned if you do damned if you don't, they weren't winning either way. I agree he probably sat him for too long.

TDS is the only pure scorer
Sitting him down that long is like a force multiplier
He is not scoring
Others try and force it to score
Thus we go ice cold and will never win
Option is to leave him in

 

[Buffnik]

Sorry man, you’re wrong. So is Tad. Tons of analysis has been done on this and it’s the wrong move.

I didn't know that. I was used to that old school approach and always think of how uncompromising Cheney was at Temple (2 fouls in 1H, you sit until 2H with no exceptions). Of course, he was kind of over the top in other ways. Like, he wouldn't put any rebounders on the blocks for offensive FTs. His thought was protecting against a secondary break off a miss was more valuable than the occasional OReb.

 

[Goose]

I didn't know that. I was used to that old school approach and always think of how uncompromising Cheney was at Temple (2 fouls in 1H, you sit until 2H with no exceptions). Of course, he was kind of over the top in other ways. Like, he wouldn't put any rebounders on the blocks for offensive FTs. His thought was protecting against a secondary break off a miss was more valuable than the occasional OReb.

I do think some of it also ties in to Tad's defensive philosophies. When you're a team who wins by Ding up and rebounding, you're going to get more fouls. So I get his point, but I still think in a lot of cases you need to trust your guys. Especially a year like this one where our depth is, um, "questionable" and it's one of your better players who is known as a smart heady guy. It'd be easier if we were one of those pansy ass zone teams that don't know how to play real basketball, but because we're not it becomes something Tad needs to balance. I just disagree with how he does it.

Interesting note, we're 303rd in the nation in 2 foul participation. No real correlation that I saw in a quick scan between teams that let them play and success and teams that don't.

 

[RumblinBuff]

I do think some of it also ties in to Tad's defensive philosophies. When you're a team who wins by Ding up and rebounding, you're going to get more fouls. So I get his point, but I still think in a lot of cases you need to trust your guys. Especially a year like this one where our depth is, um, "questionable" and it's one of your better players who is known as a smart heady guy. It'd be easier if we were one of those pansy ass zone teams that don't know how to play real basketball, but because we're not it becomes something Tad needs to balance. I just disagree with how he does it.

Interesting note, we're 303rd in the nation in 2 foul participation. No real correlation that I saw in a quick scan between teams that let them play and success and teams that don't.

We've played certain guys w/2 at times this year, and TDS has been one of them. A few min here or there w/in final media TO of the 1st half. I was expecting similar for TDS last night -- push to close the halftime gap to 5 or so. Surprised when it didn't happen.

 

[torero]

This just isn't true, man. There a bunch...a bunch of 6'10" guys all over the country who can play ball. No one is asking for a star,l just a guy who isn't a stuff and can get off the floor.

There are? Who are they?

 

[ZandiBuff]

We’re not getting the bugs that would make a difference. Those guys are going to top 5 teams and are one and done. Therefore we need to go for talent. Guards are overlooked. Win with guards.

Then maybe we should stop recruiting 2/3 wing players. Ever year.

And our new guard heavy lineup will still get murdered by any team with 2 bigs. We already can't keep from getting a 6-2 pg guarding a 7-0 C when we have 1 big on the court. How's that gonna work with none?

 

[Goose]

Then maybe we should stop recruiting 2/3 wing players. Ever year.

And our new guard heavy lineup will still get murdered by any team with 2 bigs. We already can't keep from getting a 6-2 pg guarding a 7-0 C when we have 1 big on the court. How's that gonna work with none?

You’re talking about a problem that exists against 2-3 teams in our conference. I don’t want to recruit stiffs just so we can throw them out against Arizona and UCLA.

And those 7 foot centers have to guard a 6-2 guy on the other end.

Talent > Size

 

[Da Lama]

You’re talking about a problem that exists against 2-3 teams in our conference. I don’t want to recruit stiffs just so we can throw them out against Arizona and UCLA.

And those 7 foot centers have to guard a 6-2 guy on the other end.

Talent > Size

Don't recruit Colorado HS players. Problem solved.

 

[Scotch]

Don't recruit Colorado HS players. Problem solved.

Now you're just trying to kiss his ass.

 

[Always BUFF]

There are? Who are they?

You need to watch some ball...I watched 3 yesterday that didn't trip over their feet, rebounded and could actually shoot a FT.
LL was overrated out of HS...accept it...the truth sucks it is what it is.

 

[Always BUFF]

You’re talking about a problem that exists against 2-3 teams in our conference. I don’t want to recruit stiffs just so we can throw them out against Arizona and UCLA.

And those 7 foot centers have to guard a 6-2 guy on the other end.

Talent > Size

...the best tandem we've had Scott/Gordon and we competed, Scott would go out and Wesley would fill the middle and he was more athletic.
1 big to start 1 off the bench is the way of things aside from Purdue.

 

[Formerly_Medford]

You need to watch some ball...I watched 3 yesterday that didn't trip over their feet, rebounded and could actually shoot a FT.
LL was overrated out of HS...accept it...the truth sucks it is what it is.

And I'm betting none of those three were 5*, one and done talents.

Some guts here act like there aren't a lot of 6'9" or 6'10" guys who are plus athletes out there. There are. A lot of them are at smaller programs too because they aren't particularly skilled.

 

[Always BUFF]

And I'm betting none of those three were 5*, one and done talents.

Some guts here act like there aren't a lot of 6'9" or 6'10" guys who are plus athletes out there. There are. A lot of them are at smaller programs too because they aren't particularly skilled.

6' 10" and up and can jump higher than 3 pieces of paper that are part of the offense. Every time the Buffs come down the floor on offense it's 4 on 5.

 

[torero]

You need to watch some ball...I watched 3 yesterday that didn't trip over their feet, rebounded and could actually shoot a FT.
LL was overrated out of HS...accept it...the truth sucks it is what it is.

I watch plenty of ball. Give me names. 6’10 dudes who can ball don’t grown on trees. There are 4 guys in the top 30 in scoring in the pac-12 taller than 6’8. 2 of them play for Cal, the worst team in the conference. 1 of them plays for Wazzu and had his worst game of the season against Colorado. The 4th is Ballo.

Edit: I missed Branden Carlson from Utah. So there are 5.

 

[RumblinBuff]

I watch plenty of ball. Give me names. 6’10 dudes who can ball don’t grown on trees. There are 4 guys in the top 30 in scoring in the pac-12 taller than 6’8. 2 of them play for Cal, the worst team in the conference. 1 of them plays for Wazzu and had his worst game of the season against Colorado. The 4th is Ballo.

Edit: I missed Branden Carlson from Utah. So there are 5.

Are we going by raw ppg? 'Cause, Tubelis and TDS would be on the over 6'8 list, as well. Also Drew Peterson, as he has 14" of neck. Dante @ Ore. Not sure who the Cal guys are as... that team has no points.

So I see 7? Arizona has 2 (they always have two), Carlson is pretty dope, TDS isn't a *power* power forward, Peterson is a point guard, Gueye stinks, and Dante is... OK?.

So, there are only 3 true post players in this league who make conference-level significant offensive contributions that I would say I covet.

 

[torero]

Are we going by raw ppg? 'Cause, Tubelis and TDS would be on the over 6'8 list, as well. Also Drew Peterson, as he has 14" of neck. Dante @ Ore. Not sure who the Cal guys are as... that team has no points.

So I see 7? Arizona has 2 (they always have two), Carlson is pretty dope, TDS isn't a *power* power forward, Peterson is a point guard, Gueye stinks, and Dante is... OK?.

So, there are only 3 true post players in this league who make conference-level significant offensive contributions that I would say I covet.

My counting skills suck. Just completely skipped over Tubelis, who is leading the conference in scoring and the Cal guys are in the top 40, not top 30. Top 30 all average over 10 ppg, you get to 31 and you are under 10. And I used the above 6’8 cutoff because I thought that’s what TDS was listed at, but you’re right, he is listed at 6’9.

But the ultimate point is that this CU team’s problems do not stem from a lack of big dudes who can play. Our wings stink and we have one reliable guard.

 

[RumblinBuff]

My counting skills suck. Just completely skipped over Tubelis, who is leading the conference in scoring and the Cal guys are in the top 40, not top 30. Top 30 all average over 10 ppg, you get to 31 and you are under 10. And I used the above 6’8 cutoff because I thought that’s what TDS was listed at, but you’re right, he is listed at 6’9.

But the ultimate point is that this CU team’s problems do not stem from a lack of big dudes who can play. Our wings stink and we have one reliable guard.

1000% agree. If I could tweak this roster with immediate effect, addressing the front line is well-down the list.

One of the more interesting parts of the zona game, I thought, was when both teams went small, late in the 1st half. Tubelis and TDS were out with foul trouble, and Ballo and Law were sitting. We got boat raced. We simply do not have the players to compete on the wings.

 

[ZandiBuff]

You’re talking about a problem that exists against 2-3 teams in our conference. I don’t want to recruit stiffs just so we can throw them out against Arizona and UCLA.

And those 7 foot centers have to guard a 6-2 guy on the other end.

Talent > Size

Funny, I don't see Az, UCLA, Ore, Washington (past few years) struggling to guard our guards when they have 1-2 bigs on the court vs. us going small. How come they don't struggle to guard a 6'2" guy on the other end?

We don't need 3 7'-1" centers on the court at the same time.

We DO need more than 1 guy who can stop the other team's 7'1" C - Evan did fine at this. Wes wasn't 7" tall, nor a Center.. XJ, FFS Tory Miller in all his AF biting ways could play in the middle.

We don't need any more god damn 6'7" left handed wings who can neither shoot nor stop anyone who weighs more than 210 or is more than 6'8" tall.

 

[Buffsbball]

Funny, I don't see Az, UCLA, Ore, Washington (past few years) struggling to guard our guards when they have 1-2 bigs on the court vs. us going small. How come they don't struggle to guard a 6'2" guy on the other end?

We don't need 3 7'-1" centers on the court at the same time.

We DO need more than 1 guy who can stop the other team's 7'1" C - Evan did fine at this. Wes wasn't 7" tall, nor a Center.. XJ, FFS Tory Miller in all his AF biting ways could play in the middle.

We don't need any more god damn 6'7" left handed wings who can neither shoot nor stop anyone who weighs more than 210 or is more than 6'8" tall.

Nows a great time to remind everyone thanks to CU admissions we dont have a 6’10 true freshman who just played 30 minutes and had 8 points and 12 boards against the 15th ranked team in the nation and is shooting 40% from 3 on the year.

 

[Buffsbball]

Also just want to point out Kansas won the natty last year with 1 player above 6’8 in their rotation last year. Arizona with a bigger team last year with Koloko, Ballo and Tubelis lost to a Houston team with one player in their rotation above 6’8. We don’t need height, we need grit, toughness and another shot creator.

 

[OkieBuffster]

Nows a great time to remind everyone thanks to CU admissions we dont have a 6’10 true freshman who just played 30 minutes and had 8 points and 12 boards against the 15th ranked team in the nation and is shooting 40% from 3 on the year.

This one still stings!

 

[Buffnik]

Are we going by raw ppg? 'Cause, Tubelis and TDS would be on the over 6'8 list, as well. Also Drew Peterson, as he has 14" of neck. Dante @ Ore. Not sure who the Cal guys are as... that team has no points.

So I see 7? Arizona has 2 (they always have two), Carlson is pretty dope, TDS isn't a *power* power forward, Peterson is a point guard, Gueye stinks, and Dante is... OK?.

So, there are only 3 true post players in this league who make conference-level significant offensive contributions that I would say I covet.

TDS is a "power forward" like Kevin Durant is a power forward.

 

[ZandiBuff]

Also just want to point out Kansas won the natty last year with 1 player above 6’8 in their rotation last year. Arizona with a bigger team last year with Koloko, Ballo and Tubelis lost to a Houston team with one player in their rotation above 6’8. We don’t need height, we need grit, toughness and another shot creator.

Houston's non-big bigs:
6-8 230
6-8 230
6-8 225
6-7 230

Kansas' non-big bigs:
6-8 225
6-8 225
6-7 225

CU's non-big bigs:
6-9 217
6-8 213
6-6 215

I left out anyone who either red-shirted or was a walk-on / didn't or doesn't play (QA) - as far as I can tell from mins played, started, etc.

It's not just height - we simply don't have the bodies / mass to match up with these guys. We most assuredly don't have the guard skills to go around them. But boy oh boy, do we have some wings.

 

[Buffnik]

Houston's non-big bigs:
6-8 230
6-8 230
6-8 225
6-7 230

Kansas' non-big bigs:
6-8 225
6-8 225
6-7 225

CU's non-big bigs:
6-9 217
6-8 213
6-6 215

I left out anyone who either red-shirted or was a walk-on / didn't or doesn't play (QA) - as far as I can tell from mins played, started, etc.

It's not just height - we simply don't have the bodies / mass to match up with these guys. We most assuredly don't have the guard skills to go around them. But boy oh boy, do we have some wings.

We definitely look like one of the skinniest teams in the nation. I watch a lot of college hoops and never see a Power Six team that looks as thin as our Buffs.