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Goodman: Buffs for Life Need to get a Clue

Duff Man said:
Objectively, the Buffs were an all-around terrible team in 2012. We can debate the reasons, but the facts about the 2012 point to one of the worst teams in the country.
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The change was made. We now have a new coach, time to support the new coach. But I will not attack Embo calling him a bad coach, calling him a bad recruiter. The guy had a tough job. His recruiting in my opinion was reasonable considering the disadvantages he had to deal with like lack of facilities and the lack of depth on the team.
 
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bigbang2 said:
Don't forget to add being forced to play freshmen against mostly juniors and seniors on other teams. But heck it is only objective thinking, if i only consider the facts that you agree to. Embo had a tough job, even Nick Saban would have struggled in the same environment.
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Nick Saban would have beat CSU and Suck State.

If Embree would have he would still be employed.
 
GoBuffs08 said:
Nick Saban would have beat CSU and Suck State.

If Embree would have he would still be employed.
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Dan Hawkins would have won those games. That was the issue, Embree was losing games Hawk was winning 2 years earlier.
 
Dan Hawkins was playing with mostly Juniors and Seniors. Embo had to play a lot of freshmen because Hawkins did a bad job in recruiting. Embo actually won a game on the road. Embo beat CSU last year when he actually had more experienced players on the team.
 
bigbang2 said:
Charles Johnson is right, the team is rebuilding, what did you expect when you play freshmen against mostly Seniors and Juniors on teams like USC, Stanford. Embo took over a bad program, 2 years is not enough to reasonable judge him in my opinion. But time to move on and support the new coach.
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WRONG. Losing to Sac State at Folsom says it all. He was so obviously in over his head. I think Bohn did him a favor cuz if he got another year, the recruiting class would have been horrible and we'd be blown out next year too resulting in a mid-year firing. Embo is a good guy from all accounts, but time to leave HCing to real a HC.
 
BuffClass90 said:
WRONG. Losing to Sac State at Folsom says it all. He was so obviously in over his head. I think Bohn did him a favor cuz if he got another year, the recruiting class would have been horrible and we'd be blown out next year too resulting in a mid-year firing. Embo is a good guy from all accounts, but time to leave HCing to real a HC.
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Was he over his head last year, when he ended a long road losing streak and he beat CSU?
 
bigbang2 said:
Dan Hawkins was playing with mostly Juniors and Seniors. Embo had to play a lot of freshmen because Hawkins did a bad job in recruiting. Embo actually won a game on the road. Embo beat CSU last year when he actually had more experienced players on the team.
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This is only true this year, last year we had a ton of seniors and were still worse at home than Hawkins ever was. In five years Dan was 17-14 in "home games" and beat multiple ranked teams, Jon was 2-10. Dan Hawkins classes were ranked:

2006 transition class = #40
2007 = #32
2008 = #15
2009 = #48
2010 = #66

Jon's classes:
2011 T = #70
2012 = #36
2013 (at the time of his firing) ~ 70

Took a bad situation and made it worse.
 
Why are we even trying to have a logical argument about w/ BB about why Embree was fired? First of all, it's too late to cry about it now.

2nd of all the data speak for themselves. We don't have to.
 
bigbang2 said:
Was he over his head last year, when he ended a long road losing streak and he beat CSU?
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Objectively, the Buffs were one of the worst teams in the country in 2011. A 3-10 record with several blowout losses is not very good by any measure.
 
absinthe said:
This is only true this year, last year we had a ton of seniors and were still worse at home than Hawkins ever was. In five years Dan was 17-14 in "home games" and beat multiple ranked teams, Jon was 2-10. Dan Hawkins classes were ranked:

2006 transition class = #40
2007 = #32
2008 = #15
2009 = #48
2010 = #66

Jon's classes:
2011 T = #70
2012 = #36
2013 (at the time of his firing) ~ 70

Took a bad situation and made it worse.
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Are you saying that Hawkins was a better recruiter than Embo?
 
Duff Man said:
Objectively, the Buffs were one of the worst teams in the country in 2011. A 3-10 record with several blowout losses is not very good by any measure.
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Agreed 3-10 was about the worst possible outcome when that season started, and we achieved it. 2 more were right there if we didnt snatch defeat from the jaws of victory twice at home.
 
Big Bang, do you realize your opinions on Embree are subjective? You cannot call out Daaah for ignoring facts and objectivity if you do not hold yourself to the same standard.
 
bigbang2, this isn't about Embree. This is about the B4L radio guy's agenda against Mike Bohn which seems to me of more importance to them than to get behind the new coach. This is about moving forward.
 
bigbang2 said:
Charles Johnson is right, the team is rebuilding, what did you expect when you play freshmen against mostly Seniors and Juniors on teams like USC, Stanford. Embo took over a bad program, 2 years is not enough to reasonable judge him in my opinion. But time to move on and support the new coach.
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Given that CU only has won one home game in two seasons and had a tough home slate coming up...would CU fans have put up with two winless seasons at home in a row? I don't care if you are rebuilding or not but the fans will desert you if you don't show any fight at home. Given that Embree and some other former Buff players were leading that team, you would expect to see some fight out of the players but we didn't see that and Embree didn't deserve that third season in Boulder.
 
bigbang2 said:
What do you think, don't care about rivals?
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It takes time for classes to pan out is what I think, Dan's #15 certainly didn't at that level. His transition class with Brown, Smith, and Solder should have been higher; but all-in-all I expected the last staff to consistently beat Hawkins by a large margin. Barring 5 guys getting drafted out of the 2012 class they have no shot at that.
 
bigbang2 said:
Ended long road losing streak, lack of facilities.
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Your boy Embo shouldn't go around telling everyone we were going to a Bowl this year if his situation was so dire. I know you are trying to fan the flames but by any measure this team went backwards this year and not just a little bit backwards, but back in time backwards, light years backwards. This was unwatchable football and much of it was due to poor coaching, his gameday decisions were some of the worst I have ever seen. Starting in GAME 1 this season against CSU, putting a freshman back to catch a punt that at the end of the first half that did not need to be touched. It all went downhill from there. What is your excuse for the Fresno State game? Or blowing a home lead to Sac State ? Come on bro, Embree was not ready for this job and it showed time and time again. End of story.
 
bigbang2 said:
Don't forget to add being forced to play freshmen against mostly juniors and seniors on other teams. But heck it is only objective thinking, if i only consider the facts that you agree to. Embo had a tough job, even Nick Saban would have struggled in the same environment.
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Probably right that even Saban would have struggled in this environment. Worth noting, though, that every one of Saban's teams improved in the win/loss column in year two. Saban also wouldn't have called a qb sneak on first down, gotten a delay of game immediately after a time out or kicked the ball to Reggie Dunn in the fourth quarter of a tied ballgame.
 
CU football is bigger than one person (Embree).

CU football is bigger than one cause (B4L).

CU football is not bigger than the fans.

CU football is a consumer product. It takes a business perspective to ID the emotional drama, separate that from the reality, and deliver on results fans want. If not, there is no product.

CU football fans don't want 1-11 seasons. They don't want excuses. They don't want drama.
 
NYbuffDIEHARD said:
Your boy Embo shouldn't go around telling everyone we were going to a Bowl this year if his situation was so dire. I know you are trying to fan the flames but by any measure this team went backwards this year and not just a little bit backwards, but back in time backwards, light years backwards. This was unwatchable football and much of it was due to poor coaching, his gameday decisions were some of the worst I have ever seen. Starting in GAME 1 this season against CSU, putting a freshman back to catch a punt that at the end of the first half that did not need to be touched. It all went downhill from there. What is your excuse for the Fresno State game? Or blowing a home lead to Sac State ? Come on bro, Embree was not ready for this job and it showed time and time again. End of story.
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Young teams, make mistakes. Every coach makes bad decisions. 2 years is a small sample size for me to make any reasonable objective decision on Embo. The change is made, I will support the next coach.
 
as for B4L, they need to tell Klatt, CJ, and Big Al to take a hike...they are hurting the organization and isn't B4L led by Embree? He's letting down former Buffs in need with all of this drama and he could do us a huge favor and tell those three to shut up.
 
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