Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
You think the program could get worse than it currently is? That's a scary thought.
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Grade the coaches. Who needs to go?
- Thread starter fervorfactor
- Start date
You think the program could get worse than it currently is? That's a scary thought.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I wonder how Dr. Tom or Beloltti would have handled the AD-HC relationship in Hawkins year 5 specific to recruiting. The lack of depth is overwhelming.
It would be true to point out that great coaches find a way to win with the players they have. By that measuring stick, clearly Embree and crew can not be called great coached based on the 2011 performance thus far. The game changing penalties and perhaps the abundance of injuries can be pinned on the coaches, in my opinion. Clearly Coach Embree, Brown, Bienemy and crew are NOT miracle workers.
But if blame must be assigned at this point, I'm looking more at the AD and school leadership for not more actively managing the recruitment that the school was paying our former HC to provide.
It seems that Embree is playing with atleast 15 arms tied behind his back. He's been put in a spot. The last thing I want to do is point fingers at the coaches when there are bigger, systematic forces at work that have been under the responsibility of Mr. Bohn for a much longer time.
My biggest criticism if MB is that he is a hands-off AD when it comes to the activities of the football team. This hands off approach is great when a coach has a system up and running. But CU has not had a functional system since 2001.
I suspect Dr. Tom or Belotti have better contingency plans and coaching development plans than does Mike. There is something to be said about AD's who have worn coaching shoes.
It would be true to point out that great coaches find a way to win with the players they have. By that measuring stick, clearly Embree and crew can not be called great coached based on the 2011 performance thus far. The game changing penalties and perhaps the abundance of injuries can be pinned on the coaches, in my opinion. Clearly Coach Embree, Brown, Bienemy and crew are NOT miracle workers.
But if blame must be assigned at this point, I'm looking more at the AD and school leadership for not more actively managing the recruitment that the school was paying our former HC to provide.
It seems that Embree is playing with atleast 15 arms tied behind his back. He's been put in a spot. The last thing I want to do is point fingers at the coaches when there are bigger, systematic forces at work that have been under the responsibility of Mr. Bohn for a much longer time.
My biggest criticism if MB is that he is a hands-off AD when it comes to the activities of the football team. This hands off approach is great when a coach has a system up and running. But CU has not had a functional system since 2001.
I suspect Dr. Tom or Belotti have better contingency plans and coaching development plans than does Mike. There is something to be said about AD's who have worn coaching shoes.
No one will be fired after this season, which should surprise no one.
I do think it is fair to critically analyze every coach on the staff after the 2012 season (excluding Embree/Bieniemy since we know neither is going to be fired). The team should be showing signs of life next season and we should see improvement as the year goes on. Coaching staffs rarely stay intact for more than a few years at a time anyway, so if that means a couple coaches have to be replaced, it is not the end of the world.
I do think it is fair to critically analyze every coach on the staff after the 2012 season (excluding Embree/Bieniemy since we know neither is going to be fired). The team should be showing signs of life next season and we should see improvement as the year goes on. Coaching staffs rarely stay intact for more than a few years at a time anyway, so if that means a couple coaches have to be replaced, it is not the end of the world.
Can't you just resurrect syko's thread from a couple of weeks ago rather than rehash the whole thing? I don't really think any of the arguments have changed in that time.
OT, but I've always thought that Venebles reputation was more a product of his players than his schemes. I wouldn't be surprised to see something happen with mStoops this offseason.
You're seriously saying its Mike Bohn's fault that Hawkins was a ****** recruiter?
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
You think Embree is safe if he drops off another 1 win season in 2012?
I'm not so sure. But I do doubt that Mike Bohn gets to hire any more coaches.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Yes I am. But to be more precise, I'm saying Mike Bohn's employee was a ****** recruiter. The boss of that ****** recruiter has a responsibility to a) attract a good candidate...who can recruit; b) develop his employee in areas needing development; and c) retain talent.
If items a) thru c) are not working out, and the ****** recruiter must be let go, the AD's job does not end at the termination of the ****** recruiter.
The boss should shoulder responsibility for continuing and enhancing the value of the enterprise, even when there is a management shakeup.
Bohn did not do his part in sustaining the talent level from 2009 to Dec 2010, during the period everyone knew D2 was a lame duck.
And Embree entered into a situation where Bohn's main contribution is to hire a new guy with an empty cabinet that is of no fault of his own and then craft a message that the fans should be patient.
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This... It was obvious that Hawkins was unwilling to make necessary changes. As Hawkins superior, it is Bohn's job to step in and ensure those changes were made. Whether that was firing Hawkins, or forcing Hawkins to change his staff to bring in better coaches.
When you have an employee that sucks, it's the managers fault if they don't do anything about trying to change the sucky employee.
The Guest
Guest
I'm gonna guess there were a few awkward meetings along the way.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
You mean like the one where Bohn was told his firing of Hawkins was null and void?
The Guest
Guest
Well, yeah, that one was probably pretty awkward too, but one level up from where I was speculating...
Junction
Club Member
Exactly. All the Management 101 stuff above only works if Bohn isn't getting cut off at the knees by HIS superiors...
Coach Mac was 1-10 in his third year. Nobody gets fired. This is all about talent. Will take a few years to get some here.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Now we are getting somewhere.
When Bohn's superiors aren't committed to winning, then we get what we've got.
:lol: I think this thread was started with the sole agenda of ragging on Greg Brown. I don't think Jon Embree is going to be reading this board for any advice.
Lukeasaurus
Well-Known Member
Lol I am with wsp. No one needs to go, we've been in agreement as to how bad recruiting was over the last couple years. Minimal talent, virtually no depth, Plus the loss of our entire secondary, plus very little offensive help, plus first year = whatever. I can't blame him or anyone who is CURRENTLY on the staff. I actually liked the aggressive blitz packages the first few games. On the note of Cabral, I think he is doing ok. Webb looks good, Rippy I felt possibly the best player on the D. Major has been a complete non factor though.
Major has been impacted by injuries too much to be effective. All his speed is gone from his knee surgeries. If he could have stayed healthy he could have been special.
They haven't been amazing (outside of PRich's Cal game), but I'm not sure BK had much to work with there either. Clemons is always going to suffer from the dropsies and lack concentration, Gray has looked decent considering he only switched from QB a year or two ago. I am a little upset they burned Austin Vincent's redshirt for like 3 snaps and don't seem to be getting him into the games. His recruiting in Dallas has also more than made up for any lackluster WR play this year imo.
The WRs need to get better, but their struggles are magnified by the complete lack of production from the TE position. Plus we are playing Canty out wide. I think he has looked decent, but he is a twig, not a guy you want working the outside.
I expect our WRs to be pretty decent next year. PRich, Spruce, Vincent, McCullough, Canty + Gerald Thomas and one of Williams or the other Thomas should be pretty solid. Really young, though.
Plus, you have to admit, Tyler is not exactly pin point accurate. I'd imagine that its a lot easier for a WR if he knows the ball is going to be there almost every time. With Tyler, I think they have that little bit of a lack of confidence that can make a difference.
buffsyko
Club Member
Greg brown gets another year, if no improvements are to be seen can him. Unless you'd like to keep every coach for 5 years like simple jack.