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Grade the Freshmen

sackman

sackman

Hates the Counting Crows.
Club Member
Ahhhh, I hit enter and it started the thread too fast. Mods - please make this "Grade the Freshmen"

So where did they come down? I was a little underwhelmed, frankly. I expected more out of Thomas. Fletcher's injury was a shame. Hopkins showed flashes, but seemed pretty inconsistent to me. King was invisible, and made me wonder why we didn't bank the scholarship.

Thoughts?
 
sackman said:
I was a little underwhelmed, frankly. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

It was a disappointing freshman year, moreover I wonder if we will 'hit' on any of them outside of decent role players as upperclassmen.

Fletcher C+
Hopkins C
Thomas C
King F (would have liked to see Ronnie Harrell with that scholy going forward)
 
Tzisken already chastised me that we had too high of expectations and that none of these kids were ranked all that high....

It certainly seems to me that adding a lengthy and rangy wing that is completely devoid of offensive skills, late in the process, did not address any of our needs. King should have redshirted in the end. Should have been obvious from practice that he lacked the skills to contribute this year.
 
buffaholic said:
Tzisken already chastised me that we had too high of expectations and that none of these kids were ranked all that high....

It certainly seems to me that adding a lengthy and rangy wing that is completely devoid of offensive skills, late in the process, did not address any of our needs. King should have redshirted in the end. Should have been obvious from practice that he lacked the skills to contribute this year.
Click to expand...

With the successes of Dinwiddie and Booker, people's expectations did get out of whack. Thomas was barely a top 150 player, Jaron's stock dropped consistently for a year. Guys ranked like 110-150 are usually really, really good mid-major players with the chance to excel at high-major as well. For every Dinwiddie, you've got someone who totally flops. For every Booker (all the skill but no size), you've got another flop. People thought because Book could score at the high-major level that the 3 ranked '13 guys could do the same, at the same level. Not saying you specifically thought that, but many did and it's not realistic on a consistent basis. Fletcher was on pace to be the first guy off the bench when he got injured, for a Top 25 team, which is exceptional for a frosh.

On King, redshirting him was never in the cards once practices really got going, because why redshirt someone if you're waiting for him to pass through the program?
 
Duff Man said:
Why redshirt him if you can move him through the program more quickly?
Click to expand...

Certainly if Tad thinks it was a mistake. I'd guess Tad still believes he will develop into something he wants. But to me he looks like Hopkins without the handles . Both can't shoot but can learn to defend, and certainly can run and jump.
 
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YngC said:
With the successes of Dinwiddie and Booker, people's expectations did get out of whack. Thomas was barely a top 150 player, Jaron's stock dropped consistently for a year. Guys ranked like 110-150 are usually really, really good mid-major players with the chance to excel at high-major as well. For every Dinwiddie, you've got someone who totally flops. For every Booker (all the skill but no size), you've got another flop. People thought because Book could score at the high-major level that the 3 ranked '13 guys could do the same, at the same level. Not saying you specifically thought that, but many did and it's not realistic on a consistent basis. Fletcher was on pace to be the first guy off the bench when he got injured, for a Top 25 team, which is exceptional for a frosh.

On King, redshirting him was never in the cards once practices really got going, because why redshirt someone if you're waiting for him to pass through the program?
Click to expand...

Is that true? Not saying it's not, but it seems to me that top freshman start or are first off the bench at every level.

Also - perhaps I was unrealistic as I listened to the hype. I heard how Thomas could shoot it from deep and he certainly proved that false, if for just this past year.
 
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buffaholic said:
Is that true? Not saying it's not, but it seems to me that top freshman start or are first off the bench at every level.

Also - perhaps I was unrealistic as I listened to the hype. I heard how Thomas could shoot it from deep and he certainly proved that false, if for just this past year.
Click to expand...

That's the TOP of the freshmen class generally. Fletch was ranked between 75-150 if I remember correctly, so he was hardly considered to be a sure thing. If Fletcher went to Wazzu, Oregon State, USC or some of the really good mid-majors, he'd be starting. But he came to a school stacked at forward, and a Top 25 program and he was going to be the 6th man by conference play. That's very, very good.
 
sackman said:
Ahhhh, I hit enter and it started the thread too fast. Mods - please make this "Grade the Freshmen"

So where did they come down? I was a little underwhelmed, frankly. I expected more out of Thomas. Fletcher's injury was a shame. Hopkins showed flashes, but seemed pretty inconsistent to me. King was invisible, and made me wonder why we didn't bank the scholarship.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Nah. The original title is too funny to change. :lol:

and done.

Anyway, all the frosh will need time to develop, and I'll include Gordon in that list. Looking forward to the day when both Thomas and Hopkins find their shot.
 
I know for me that it doesn't seem like we are landing the caliber of players that I thought we were.

 
buffaholic said:
Certainly if Tad thinks it was a mistake. I'd guess Tad still believes he will develop into something he wants. But to me he looks like Hopkins without the handles . Both can't shoot but can learn to defend, and certainly can run and jump.
Click to expand...

Does not even need to be a "mistake," but rather realizing having him as a 5th year senior is probably not a necessity.
 
'Tini said:
Collier isn't that caliber of player? Or XJ or Scott?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I am talking about the freshmen. JHop showed flashes but I was hoping for more from them. (I know Fletcher got injured)

Collier, we shall see. XJ, I hope the light goes on. Scott, I love but regressed this year at the worst time.
 
sliderNcider said:
Gordon an A?
Click to expand...

I was orignally going to say B for Gordon, but I gave him an A due to the fact that he was a regular starter from day 1 for a tourney team. I guess it all depends on what you are grading them on. If the grades are based on expectations, then I'd give Gordon a C because he didn't exceed expectations. He was exactly what we thought he would be. But I chose to grade them relative to the average major conference freshman player.

Also, I tend to see things on the brighter side than most.
 
14er said:
I am talking about the freshmen. JHop showed flashes but I was hoping for more from them. (I know Fletcher got injured)

Collier, we shall see. XJ, I hope the light goes on. Scott, I love but regressed this year at the worst time.
Click to expand...

Scott regressed when the other team would double team him and we'd have no idea what to do after, I put most of that on coaching. His skill however didn't regress and he was a 1st team all PAC 12 player. XJ improved a good amount this year, specifically on the defensive end but he needs to get his head into every game and not just the big ones. XJ was asked to do too much though, he's not ready nor is he the player at this point who can consistently put the team on his back but he was asked to do that a lot.

Collier has been playing at a very high level for a while now, if anyone is a sure fire player at the next level it's him. Having a true PG who can play high level defense is going to be very nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
'Tini said:
Scott regressed when the other team would double team him and we'd have no idea what to do after, I put most of that on coaching. His skill however didn't regress and he was a 1st team all PAC 12 player. XJ improved a good amount this year, specifically on the defensive end but he needs to get his head into every game and not just the big ones. XJ was asked to do too much though, he's not ready nor is he the player at this point who can consistently put the team on his back but he was asked to do that a lot.

Collier has been playing at a very high level for a while now, if anyone is a sure fire player at the next level it's him. Having a true PG who can play high level defense is going to be very nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Is the Pac-12 the only conference that names a 10 man first-team?
 
Hopkins: C+
Fletcher: C
Thomas: C
King: D

Gordon is graded differently because he was on campus practicing for an extra year. C
 
Excited to see Fletcher and Hopkins next season. Thomas will get there too, but I think it will take another year.
 
Thomas showed flashes when he was able to keep his composure. Hopkins showed a better deep ball than I expected but that seemed to fade as the year wore on. Love his aggressive style though. Fletcher was starting to progress nicely until the injury. King had good hair.
 
I expected that all four would be major contributors by the end of the year. Not starters, necessarily, but all putting in 10-15 minutes and providing the starters some rest so that they'd have fresh legs going into the post season. I'm not including Gordon as a Freshman due to his time in the program. I would have thought that by the time February rolled around, we'd be getting real contributions from all of them. King had a tremendous opportunity and didn't capitalize. I don't know what the deal is with him. Like I said, I think Tad probably should have banked that scholarship. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing, though.
 
Duff Man said:
Excited to see Fletcher and Hopkins next season. Thomas will get there too, but I think it will take another year.
Click to expand...

Yeah he's got a while to go in the weight room. He's a good 3PT shooter though so hopefully he can come off the bench and provide that deep threat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
sackman said:
I expected that all four would be major contributors by the end of the year. Not starters, necessarily, but all putting in 10-15 minutes and providing the starters some rest so that they'd have fresh legs going into the post season. I'm not including Gordon as a Freshman due to his time in the program. I would have thought that by the time February rolled around, we'd be getting real contributions from all of them. King had a tremendous opportunity and didn't capitalize. I don't know what the deal is with him. Like I said, I think Tad probably should have banked that scholarship. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing, though.
Click to expand...

King is extremely athletic but extremely raw, I also believe he is by far the youngest freshman on the team.


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'Tini said:
King is extremely athletic but extremely raw, I also believe he is by far the youngest freshman on the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
George King was born on January 15, 1994 (http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208542165&DB_OEM_ID=600); Tre'Shaun Fletcher was born on October 5, 1994 (http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208540288&DB_OEM_ID=600). Jaron Hopkins was born November 14, 1994 (http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208542163&DB_OEM_ID=600) Dustin Thomas was born July 25, 1995 (http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208540290&DB_OEM_ID=600)

Looks like he's the oldest freshman by far.
 
buffaholic said:
Tzisken already chastised me that we had too high of expectations and that none of these kids were ranked all that high....

It certainly seems to me that adding a lengthy and rangy wing that is completely devoid of offensive skills, late in the process, did not address any of our needs. King should have redshirted in the end. Should have been obvious from practice that he lacked the skills to contribute this year.
Click to expand...

I thought his defense put him in the forefront of all the frosh and he "got it"
 
Damn not only is jg keeping stats on every player he is also keeping track of every one of our posts.
 
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