Grade the Freshmen

[jgisland]

Damn not only is jg keeping stats on every player he is also keeping track of every one of our posts.

Ha, i just remember getting chastised b/c I didn't know what I was talking about when I said that a spring signee would make the most sense to RS. But to be honest, I'm probably irrationally high on King, i still see his frame as being a young Barkley. If he can put on some weight and knock down some 3's he could be really really good.

 

[tante]

Ha, i just remember getting chastised b/c I didn't know what I was talking about when I said that a spring signee would make the most sense to RS. But to be honest, I'm probably irrationally high on King, i still see his frame as being a young Barkley. If he can put on some weight and knock down some 3's he could be really really good.

I like his energy and his length can be disruptive. Probably will improve a lot by next year but still has a long way to go.

 

[FightCu1414]

King is six months older than me and I'm a sophomore. Weird

 

[jgisland]

I like his energy and his length can be disruptive. Probably will improve a lot by next year but still has a long way to go.

Agreed, not a great sign that he fell out of the rotation when Fletch who hadn't played in 2 months returned.

 

[Medford M.]

King would really benefit by growing a couple inches. Don't know if it's in the cards, but his lack of skills wouldn't be so glaring if he was Roberson's size.

I think he can be great though.

 

[DBT]

Could it be that Wes' injuries stunted his development this year and created a bit of a snowball by allowing teams to focus on Scott? That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

 

[buffaholic]

I thought his defense put him in the forefront of all the frosh and he "got it"

Nice try, but that is not what I said. I said from one practice, he seemed to be vying for PT, bringing a lot of energy and defense. So go ahead and hold me for 4 years based on one observation from one preseason practice. By the way, as certain ex KU player that was with me felt the same way from that one practice.

Now would be a good time to throw in a comment about my AAU friends I met. Go back to your stats little boy.

 

[4DemBuffs]

Nice try, but that is not what I said. I said from one practice, he seemed to be vying for PT, bringing a lot of energy and defense. So go ahead and hold me for 4 years based on one observation from one preseason practice. By the way, as certain ex KU player that was with me felt the same way from that one practice.

Now would be a good time to throw in a comment about my AAU friends I met. Go back to your stats little boy.

Was the ex KU player any good?

 

[mattrob]

It's tough to glean much of anything from the freshmen this year. My quick thoughts:

Fletcher- the most ready for P12 play, and I think he was poised for a breakout when Spencer went down. Unfortunately, Fletch had about 5 minutes until he lost the rest of his season, for all intents and purposes. He's going to surprise a lot of people next year.

Thomas- The biggest disappointment for me, I thought he would find more of a rhythm on the offensive end. He also took a lot of bad fouls, which seemed to rattle him. The upside was obvious, though. I wish he would keep his feet underneath him when he shoots, but he'll be a good one by 2015.

Hopkins- His stock slid during his senior season due to questions about his college position, and I think we saw that this year. He seemed to be finding a little bit of a rhythm as an athletic wing who excelled in transition, but the Dinwiddie injury put the back in his hands more and he wasn't ready for that role. That shouldn't be an issue next year.

King- I bought into this one fully when he signed, primarily due to reports about him developing as a shooter last summer. Unfortunately, I think I was wrong. It's not that I don't think he can become a strong defender/rebounder/finisher in time, because I do, but I see so many guys playing similar roles on the wing that I'm not sure it was the best use of a scholarship. I view it similarly to taking XT/Eli in the same class, where you're duplicating a skill set. Someone mentioned banking the scholarship for Ronnie Harrell previously and I have to agree that would've done more to diversify the roster.

Gordon- Not really pay off this class, but I mention because others have. I like the skill set and thought he did some good things, but injuries slowed him down. Another player whose growth could surprise next year.

Overall, I can't complain much, but injuries hampered the development, or forced guys into bigger than expected roles, of over half the class. Had things gone as planned, with Fletcher playing 15-20 minutes as a sixth man and taking the pressure to produce off of Hopkins and Thomas, I think we might be having a different discussion right now,

 

[Junction]

King would really benefit by growing a couple inches.

I've heard our S&C guys specialize in this...

 

[Val]

By the way, as certain ex KU player that was with me felt the same way from that

Always good for a laugh. :lol:

 

[CVilleBuff]

It's tough to glean much of anything from the freshmen this year. My quick thoughts:

Fletcher- the most ready for P12 play, and I think he was poised for a breakout when Spencer went down. Unfortunately, Fletch had about 5 minutes until he lost the rest of his season, for all intents and purposes. He's going to surprise a lot of people next year.

Thomas- The biggest disappointment for me, I thought he would find more of a rhythm on the offensive end. He also took a lot of bad fouls, which seemed to rattle him. The upside was obvious, though. I wish he would keep his feet underneath him when he shoots, but he'll be a good one by 2015.

Hopkins- His stock slid during his senior season due to questions about his college position, and I think we saw that this year. He seemed to be finding a little bit of a rhythm as an athletic wing who excelled in transition, but the Dinwiddie injury put the back in his hands more and he wasn't ready for that role. That shouldn't be an issue next year.

King- I bought into this one fully when he signed, primarily due to reports about him developing as a shooter last summer. Unfortunately, I think I was wrong. It's not that I don't think he can become a strong defender/rebounder/finisher in time, because I do, but I see so many guys playing similar roles on the wing that I'm not sure it was the best use of a scholarship. I view it similarly to taking XT/Eli in the same class, where you're duplicating a skill set. Someone mentioned banking the scholarship for Ronnie Harrell previously and I have to agree that would've done more to diversify the roster.

Gordon- Not really pay off this class, but I mention because others have. I like the skill set and thought he did some good things, but injuries slowed him down. Another player whose growth could surprise next year.

Overall, I can't complain much, but injuries hampered the development, or forced guys into bigger than expected roles, of over half the class. Had things gone as planned, with Fletcher playing 15-20 minutes as a sixth man and taking the pressure to produce off of Hopkins and Thomas, I think we might be having a different discussion right now,

He showed so many flashes in the Baylor game

 

[jgisland]

Nice try, but that is not what I said. I said from one practice, he seemed to be vying for PT, bringing a lot of energy and defense. So go ahead and hold me for 4 years based on one observation from one preseason practice. By the way, as certain ex KU player that was with me felt the same way from that one practice.

Now would be a good time to throw in a comment about my AAU friends I met. Go back to your stats little boy.

George King's defense puts him at forefront of incoming guys. Some of the other incoming guys are clueless there, and may not have it in them.
TBD on those guys. King gets it.

Surprised nobody picked up on this. King is going to play a lot of minutes as a defensive stopper on the wing. He can cover a lot of guys.

 

[89BUFF89]

We need a 3pt shooter in the worst way...hope Thomas or Fletch can improve their shot next season. Also team will need to figure out the Scott double team as we will see that more and more and more...

 

[sackman]

We need a 3pt shooter in the worst way

Apparently, that kind of player hurts our defense.

 

[fairdinkum]

This team needs to add alot of strength.....but that is almost always an issue with fr

 

[Medford M.]

We need a 3pt shooter in the worst way...hope Thomas or Fletch can improve their shot next season. Also team will need to figure out the Scott double team as we will see that more and more and more...

Thomas is this guy. Don't know what happened to him this year. He was a very high percentage shooter from deep in high school.

 

[tante]

We need more than just a shooter people (who also needs to be able to play mam defense, which sacky ignores) we need plays to get him the ball. We need to design an offense the drives to the basket and kicks the ball to the shooter. We need the shooter (I looking at you Talton) to move his feet and dribble around a perimeter defender who closes too fast or gets in the air.

 

[DBT]

We need a 3pt shooter in the worst way...hope Thomas or Fletch can improve their shot next season. Also team will need to figure out the Scott double team as we will see that more and more and more...

I'd rather have a 3 point shooter in the best way.

 

[sackman]

We need more than just a shooter people (who also needs to be able to play mam defense, which sacky ignores) we need plays to get him the ball. We need to design an offense the drives to the basket and kicks the ball to the shooter. We need the shooter (I looking at you Talton) to move his feet and dribble around a perimeter defender who closes too fast or gets in the air.

When did I ever ignore defense? You be a liar!!!

 

[Junction]

Apparently, that kind of player hurts our defense.

A Brody Heslip type (which is what people were begging for - don't remember if you were one of them) would absolutely hurt our defense.

Might it be worth it? Sure it might. But there would be a cost to be paid defensively having a guy like that.

Of course we could get a killer 3 point shooter who also plays shut down defense, A dime a dozen, I'm sure.

 

[CVilleBuff]

A Brody Heslip type (which is what people were begging for - don't remember if you were one of them) would absolutely hurt our defense.

Might it be worth it? Sure it might. But there would be a cost to be paid defensively having a guy like that.

Of course we could get a killer 3 point shooter who also plays shut down defense, A dime a dozen, I'm sure.

It hurts the defense assuming said player fits the mold of not being a great defender, but how much? If it's a spark guy who comes in during droughts and is our 8th guy, I don't think our whole defense goes to ****.

 

[sackman]

I know how important defense is. But let's be honest, it wasn't our defense that lost the Pitt game. We really need to improve on offense. There is a balance to be drawn. I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world to sacrifice a little defense if it would mean we have an extra weapon or two on offense.

 

[jumped ship]

I know how important defense is. But let's be honest, it wasn't our defense that lost the Pitt game. We really need to improve on offense. There is a balance to be drawn. I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world to sacrifice a little defense if it would mean we have an extra weapon or two on offense.

Not to derail the thread completely...but as I was watching the KU/Stanford game and Franenkamp (sp) was nailing threes, it made me wonder if Beau Gamble could be a 5 minute a game guy who can drill a three or two. I understand he is a defensive liability.

I think everyone is very on point. The freshmen showed flashes but we really just need a better offensive scheme to get them comfortable. More ball movement and planned shots earlier in the clock. Watching a team like Wichita State or Dayton in the tourney, really drives that idea home. It is strange that we are so good defensively but lack so many offensive fundamentals...I know it's easy to say from the cheap seats.

Lastly, I have very high hopes for Hopkins and Tre'shaun to morph into ecellent defensive players next year.

 

[sackman]

Not to derail the thread completely...but as I was watching the KU/Stanford game and Franenkamp (sp) was nailing threes, it made me wonder if Beau Gamble could be a 5 minute a game guy who can drill a three or two. I understand he is a defensive liability.

Beau Gamble is graduating this year. He's played his last game at CU.

 

[aik]

Of course we could get a killer 3 point shooter who also plays shut down defense, A dime a dozen, I'm sure.

Does Bruce Bowen have any sons?

 

[mattrob]

It hurts the defense assuming said player fits the mold of not being a great defender, but how much? If it's a spark guy who comes in during droughts and is our 8th guy, I don't think our whole defense goes to ****.

This. With the athletes Tad is recruiting, we can cover one below average defender for 12-15 minutes. Besides, the way this team tends to go into offensive funks and turn the ball over, a guy who can knock down a couple of shots might actually improve the defense by taking teams out of their transition game. I'm glad everyone has fully bought in to Tadball, but it feels like some will now blindly defend his decisions, regardless of any obvious shortcomings on the roster.

One last point. To those stating there is no room for a Heslip on the roster, how soon we forget that he's basically responsible for keeping us out of the Sweet 16 in Albuquerque. Sure, there are nights where the shot isn't falling and he'll hurt you defensively, but his shooting will keep you in, or win, a few games you otherwise wouldn't. As long as the kid realizes he isn't getting 30 minutes per night and Tad can manage situationally, it's a net positive, in my opinion.

 

[mattrob]

Not to derail the thread completely...but as I was watching the KU/Stanford game and Franenkamp (sp) was nailing threes, it made me wonder if Beau Gamble could be a 5 minute a game guy who can drill a three or two. I understand he is a defensive liability.

I think everyone is very on point. The freshmen showed flashes but we really just need a better offensive scheme to get them comfortable. More ball movement and planned shots earlier in the clock. Watching a team like Wichita State or Dayton in the tourney, really drives that idea home. It is strange that we are so good defensively but lack so many offensive fundamentals...I know it's easy to say from the cheap seats.

Lastly, I have very high hopes for Hopkins and Tre'shaun to morph into ecellent defensive players next year.

There's a point where a kid just isn't good enough at anything else and he's going to hurt you, no matter how well he shoots. Gamble is below that line.

 

[CVilleBuff]

This. With the athletes Tad is recruiting, we can cover one below average defender for 12-15 minutes. Besides, the way this team tends to go into offensive funks and turn the ball over, a guy who can knock down a couple of shots might actually improve the defense by taking teams out of their transition game. I'm glad everyone has fully bought in to Tadball, but it feels like some will now blindly defend his decisions, regardless of any obvious shortcomings on the roster.

One last point. To those stating there is no room for a Heslip on the roster, how soon we forget that he's basically responsible for keeping us out of the Sweet 16 in Albuquerque. Sure, there are nights where the shot isn't falling and he'll hurt you defensively, but his shooting will keep you in, or win, a few games you otherwise wouldn't. As long as the kid realizes he isn't getting 30 minutes per night and Tad can manage situationally, it's a net positive, in my opinion.

Great point. And defenses just naturally wear down when you haven't scored for 6 minutes. It's demoralizing and you start to get worn down as a result. We've all seen how players are rejuvenated after a big basket and subsequently guard tough. So we'd score, limit transition and keep the energy and morale needed for tough defense. I don't get why a sharpshooter is seen as almost unspeakable by some. It's not like it's some outlandish theory, most teams have one...

 

[cnbuff410]

I was watching uva game tonight and I couldn't help thinking what if we have a pg like the freshman kid in uva team. Man, this kid is so calm and played smart. No TO if I remember correctly.

CVilleBuff, you have watched a lot of uva games, and I know Collier hasn't even played any game in this level yet, but how do you compare him with that kid? I feel like they may have similar style.