Saying that, I agree btw, what do you think of Hirschman? In time, do you think he will be the guy we can start winning with? I havent seen enough of him to know.
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Hansen, Hawkins 'dead even'
- Thread starter Matt
- Start date
DeNiro
My Dixie Wrecked
You listen to too much Jim Rome... I give that about a 6 out of 10 on opening "take"... not going to qualify you for the smack off let alone the hack off... Nice try though
In Dan's eyes, Cody will *always* outplay Tyler.:rolling_eyes:
I think with better O-Line play, our qB play would have been good enough to get us to a bowl. The line was atrocious and we were not close to bowl worthy.
Really, we haven't had an all-world type QB since I've been watching... Ochs, Pesavento, Moschetti, the other little JC dude, Klatt, Bjax, Cody....
The guys who got us to bowl games and had us competitive really weren't asked to do much but manage the offense. I feel like the staff thought that they could get that from Cody this last year, and that the O-line and running game would be good enough that Cody could manage his way thru it at least as well as he did in 2007. The complete and utter failure of the front O-Line put tremendous pressure on the QB to make things happen, that he's not capable of.
Hansen did better as the season went on, but it's difficult to say how much of that was the O-Line and WR corp coming around a bit as well.
Still, I think neither QB is the problem. The O-Line has to get us back to 2007 where we had a semblance of a running game and keep the pressure off the QB. Buffnik stated our running game was ok and the pass protection blew. I feel that the opponents made us beat them with the running game and came at us on all cylinders with blitzes etc. The lack of a good running game forced us into our QB being a miracle worker. The yards we averaged on the ground were awful when you consider a lot of runs were on long yardage situations and the were giving us 8 yards on 3rd and 15.
With that said, I'm a strong support of Tyler Hansen. I saw him improve a bunch thru the year and he gives us just enough of a dual threat to help our offense. We need that dual threat imo. Cody is a fine backup, a great supporter of Tyler, and may have been an ok QB in a system that didn't rely on athleticsm from the QB like we have had to.
I think watching Boise State last year, I saw a ton of dink and dunk from their QB. Not a lot of down the field throws, not a mobile guy, and not a lot of straight running plays. They just got the ball to one of 5 guys and relied on good WR blocking and guys making plays in space. I came away from the scrimmage thinking we are going to try the same thing.
somebody
Well-Known Member
Well, okay, but I don't think this is even a good point, because Tyler has physical abilities that Cody does not, and because Cody has had lots of time to show improvement, which Tyler has not. It's pretty obvious that Tyler offers the better upside.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
That's a flawed argument - BJax had physical abilities that Cody didn't have also, but where did that get us...2-10.
Say what you will about practice reps and Dan's bias, but both of these guys have enough starts under their belt to compare them and based on what they each have accomplished in actual games neither of them blows me away.
Tyler is probably the best we have, but at this point in his development I would have expected his game to have improved beyond getting outshined by Cody in a spring scrimmage.
Again, not trying to knock Tyler but our coaches aren't making him better. He really doesn't look much different than the kid who trotted out against KSU 2 seasons ago.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
Hodge.
To compare Tyler to BJax is really unfair to Tyler. BJax never looked like a viable Division 1 QB. He looked like a running threat from the QB position many times, but that was it. I think even Cody's harshest critics (I include myself in this category) can definitively agree he is a better QB than BJax. I am not sure there is anyone out there who can make the same case for Cody over Tyler at this juncture.
calibuff81
New Member
For once I would just like to see a starter declared to start out spring ball, hawkins or hansen and let him have all the reps with the first string offense. We need to the QB to establish chemistry with the first string offense. I'm not sure either or is the answer to our prayers, but I honestly don't believe that Hawk Sr. has really given Hansen a fair shot at taking over the ball team. I'm sure it's just as frustrating for the whole offense as it is for both QB's, as a WR you've gotta consistently be adjusting to the timing of each QB and as the offense of line, you've gotta be kicking yourselves in the ***** knowing you're noting doing that great of a job blocking for your QB but yet you've gotta adjust each time to the strengths of the QB as soon as they line up behind the line.
We've all seen that as soon as Hansen struggles just a little bit Hawk Sr. tosses Hawk Jr back in hoping he'll be all of sudden turn into a D1 QB and we're always back at square one.
We've all seen that as soon as Hansen struggles just a little bit Hawk Sr. tosses Hawk Jr back in hoping he'll be all of sudden turn into a D1 QB and we're always back at square one.
I think we need to be careful of how much praise we give Cody for performing well in practice. He has performed well in every practice that I can recall. He knows the offense better than Kiseau probably. Every spring he seems to just go nuts and have amazing stats that leave you thinking we either have an awful defense or Cody has turned the corner. To compare Cody to Tyler in terms of ability to perform in practice is just not right imo. Look at last season's game tape and I doubt you can come to the conclusion that Cody is a better QB than Tyler, in any phase of the game. How much Cody lights up our defense in the spring is really irrelevant to me because it has proven to be an ineffective predictor of success in the regular season, which is what really counts.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Not comparing Tyler to BJax, just making the point that there's more to being a QB than physical abilities. Both Cody and Tyler have win totals (such as they are) that far surpass BJax, so no dispute here.
It's popular to trumpet Tyler having the bigger "upside" and having more tools than Cody, which I agree with, but up until now all that upside and all those tools has won games at just about the same frequency as Cody.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
Cody Hawkins has started 28 games. Tyler Hansen has started 7. I don't know how you are able to compare the two given those numbers. I don't know if Tyler Hansen has an "upside" or not because he's barely played.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
He started 7 last year and 2 in 2008, and has played in 13 total. We are 4-5 in games he started (which includes Iowa State in 2008 where Cody had the quarter of his life and led the comeback). He has a 9-11 TD to Int ratio and a 55% completion percentage. Combine this with the fact that he hasn't separated himself from Cody in practice and I just don't understand why everyone thinks it's so obvious that he should be named the starter now?
My fear is that the answer lies somewhere between hope and a belief that we can't do worse than Cody and if we fail at least it won't be with the coach's kid running things.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
I know that in his 28 starts, Cody Hawkins is 6-7, 4-6, and 1-4.
Does Tyler Hansen have a better record? No - but he hasn't had Jr.'s chances, either. I've seen enough of Cody Hawkins to know he's got no legs / no running ability, he's got no arm strength, he's short, and without a good running game he's got absolutely nothing to bring to the table on offense.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
I'm with you and I don't think Cody will be starting against CSU, but I would have a lot more confidence going into the season if Tyler is starting because he had won the job convincingly, rather than simply because he's not Cody.
calibuff81
New Member
With Hawkins as Coach, i've learn to always expect the unexpected. Who would have thought he'd bring in Hawk Jr to run the 2 minute offensive against K-State and pull Hansen? Who else would have thought he would have predicted a 10 win season last year? I wouldn't be surprise or shocked at all if Cody was the starting QB this fall. I'm just glad there's no yapping done this spring about how much we've improved and how much better we're going to be. He's just had one of his worst seasons and recruiting wasn't too much to be cheering about. There's nothing to cheer about when you're recruiting against the likes of San Diego State, New Mexico, and Wyoming and struggling against these programs to get commits. That's how far we've fallen under his helms. As far as i'm concerned he's got more to worry about than who's going to be the starting QB come fall.
Well, since spring practice started one thing is certain. Talkins hasn't been talking near as much. You know, "this was our best practice ever, were almost their, we'll see, 10 wins no excuses, etc" I'm thinking he may have learned his lesson. At least this way, if he's really stopped sticking his foot in his mouth, we won't be as dissapointed if they have another bad season. It can't get any worse can it?
Idot Buff
Guest
A hell of a lot worse....let me paint the picture -
Get blown out by CSU, and claw our way to another 3-win season. Hawk completely turns it off at the beginning of Big 12 play, knowing that the end is near, resulting in an even more pathetic recruiting class. And thus, we bring in another "high potential, home run" guy to pickup the pieces left behind by Danny (see picture below). And, another four year wait to see if the AD gets this hire correct.....
Pretty ****ing ugly....
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If I were in his shoes, I'd keep my mouth shut as well. I'd want to keep quiet and then have the last laugh. Now, don't take me saying that as believing that he will have the last laugh. But I predict he'll be gone before the end of the season and, after a search, Jon Embree will be named HC.
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DrunkPanda
Well-Known Member
how is that "a hell of a lot worse"? that's basically a repeat of last year, except it will end better because hawkins will be gone
Idot Buff
Guest
Except we have lost another year in getting back on track...and arguably more than that since our recruiting will also take a hit. Had we pulled the plug on Danny after last season, perhaps we would recover in 3-4 years. Now, we have added at least one if not 2-3 more years. Sounds a hell of a lot worse to me.
You dont have to have an all world qb to win at the college level. That said, Cody shouldnt even be in the conversation. He has had Ample opportunity. To me, imho, our oline is key here. If our qb is worried about where he is gonna run when it breaks down before we even snap the ball, we probably arent doing so hot up front. Bad oline play makes the good average and the average way below it. I havent been impressed with the qb play at all mind you. However, I wouldnt mind seeing these guys perform when they arent always worried about a non existant pocket. I do realize Cody has had the same issues to deal with, Im more concerned with his lack of ability. If the position was only about heart and drive, Cody would be my guy every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Fact is, with an unproven oline, putting Cody back there is a turnover waiting to happen in more ways than one.
It can change much quicker than that given the right situation. I think you are the biggest DOOM poster we have on this board, just an opinion dont get all twisted.
I agree with you that because of the Hawkins situation last years class is iffy at best and this years could be a total disaster. The momentum is gone and we are like the car broken down on the freeway watching all the other cars go past us at high speed.
That said, I do give Hawkins credit for recruiting some quality players in his prior classes and even last years class has some guys who could be real sleepers. If (hopefully when) Hawk is replaced this year I feel safe in saying that the new staff will have better talent to work with across the board than Hawk found when he got here. Hawk also managed to clean up the reputation of the program so the new coach won't be fighting against the image of the bogus "scandal."
The more important thing is that I see a lot of our losing coming, not from talent issues but from coaching issues. This staff has failed to set a tone, set an identity. We have started every season with a different offensive concept and usually abandonded it for something pulled out of someones backside by midway through the season. We have failed to establish who is actually responsible for playing with all the player groupings, changes at QB, changes (mid-season no less) of player positions including on the O-line, benching of talented starters for walk-ons (better bring that lunch bucket) and failed to establish who is in charge on the sideline. Four years into his "system" and we can't even get the right guys on the field, get a play called, line up, make the basic reads, and snap the football before the play clock expires on a regular basis, this is something that high school teams do.
I am concerned about the recent drop-off in apparent talent in recruiting classes as well as by some of the attrition and by the failure of this staff to develop a lot of the players they do have. That said, these are all things that a quality coach can and will fix. Colorado is still in the Big XII, it is still seen by the college football community as a desirable destination to coach at, Hawk's extra year may tell prospective applicants that they will get a chance to put in their systems without a quick hook. I don't think we will lack for quality applicants for the job.
Despite all the disapointments of the past four years remember that Hawk was considered by most to be major hire when he came in. He had led a mid-major as they ascended into a highly prominent role in college football, he won a lot of games, and his teams were fun to watch. If CU had not hired him he would have had his choice of other jobs at BCS level schools.
This is still a job that coaches want. Bring one in who gets off on the right foot, establishes disipline on the field, gets everyone on the same page and organized, and I think we will see some immediate success with the players we have. Win some games and all of the sudden recruits are willing to listen and your program is back on track. Not easy but certainly achievable.
I agree and college programs can be turned around quickly. If everybody cooperates, including university heads, CU can get there fast. Its not like CU is somewhere you wouldnt want to go, solid education and a top 25 program of all time. Lack of W's are killing us, u know kids these days, my son even says we are terrible and he's 6. Beatiful campus, never been there but found every pic I could. CU could be a juggernaut given the right circumstances.
I think the quickest way to jump start recruiting would a switch to the Pac:smile2:
New coach, new conference, SoCal recruiting to one of the most beautiful places in the world, not to mention a great education:thumbsup:
New coach, new conference, SoCal recruiting to one of the most beautiful places in the world, not to mention a great education:thumbsup:
Idot Buff
Guest
Wow! I am honored. I am in fine company with all the realists around here - Syko, Jimmy, Wings, and others...
pwbuffan
Active Member
not even no more
http://www.buffzone.com/ci_14776779
Sounds like Cody is ahead in the race or am I reading it wrong
http://www.allbuffs.com/content.php/228-Hansen-Hawkins-dead-even
I don't know if I should :rofl2: or
http://www.buffzone.com/ci_14776779
Sounds like Cody is ahead in the race or am I reading it wrong
I think (read: desperately hope) that you're reading that wrong. I think what the column is trying to say is that nobody who is coming out of Spring is definitely going into the Fall as the starter. While that works just fine for 21 out of the 22 positions on the field, it most definitely DOES NOT work for the quarterback. So while I'm not convinced that Cody is the leader, I'm also not very pleased with the idea that Hansen isn't the assumed starter.
We have the keystone cops running the show up there.