Hirschman, canty,jones and creer...

[BehindEnemyLines]

I'm not so sure that playing the frosh is a measure of desperation -- more like necessity. Really, who else is there?

While were naming names, I saw a few good things out of Greer at lb. And I like the fact that Creer is tough to take to the ground; pretty good for attribute for a freshman rb.

 

[KingPants]

I think a lot of CU fans are falling into the "he is playing as a true freshman/redshirt freshman, he must be good" trap.

You're probably correct, but they look better then the seniors that they are replacing in a few situations (not sure if that means anything or not, considering how little punch some of our seniors seem to have).

 

[Buffnik]

I think a lot of CU fans are falling into the "he is playing as a true freshman/redshirt freshman, he must be good" trap.

I think this is a great point.

If we get the standard progression and attrition over the next few years, how many guys of equal talent to this year's freshmen are getting a lot of playing time their first season? This was a modest class and the answer we're hoping for is "none". It was a decent class. I like these guys. But if things were right with the program they wouldn't be competing for starting positions until at least their RS-Sophomore seasons. We have a long way to go.

 

[Junction]

I'm trying to find the positives (what else can I do?) right now. I see a good amount of decent players amongst the youngsters, but no one I would consider game-changing. We also look small out there.

The lack of production at TE and the lack of a true feature back are issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

At one point this afternoon Mark Johnson was talking about one of the sub DTs UO was playing and said "this kid goes 6'4" 315. Just an absolute mountain of a man at defensive tackle." I just about spit out my drink. That's what a DT is supposed to look like, dumbass...

 

[Ozbuff]

I think this is a great point.

If we get the standard progression and attrition over the next few years, how many guys of equal talent to this year's freshmen are getting a lot of playing time their first season? This was a modest class and the answer we're hoping for is "none". It was a decent class. I like these guys. But if things were right with the program they wouldn't be competing for starting positions until at least their RS-Sophomore seasons. We have a long way to go.

I see your point, but I think at least a couple of them are legit. I like what I'm seeing out of Greer at LB and Creer looked like a good TB today. Nothing spectacular, but he looked solid and rarely went down with the initial hit, which is really impressive for a true frosh. I also think Tu'umalo is promising. He missed some tackles today, but also made some good ones. McCulloch seems to lack top end speed, but could end up being a really good possession receiver. Overall though, you're exactly right, we have long way to go to compete with Oregon. They're absolutely loaded and they're actually red-shirting some guys that would probably be getting a lot of minutes at CU. Not to mention De'Anthony Thomas who has a chance to be really special and he'll be there for at least the next two years.

 

[Buffnik]

I see your point, but I think at least a couple of them are legit. I like what I'm seeing out of Greer at LB and Creer looked like a good TB today. Nothing spectacular, but he looked solid and rarely went down with the initial hit, which is really impressive for a true frosh. I also think Tu'umalo is promising. He missed some tackles today, but also made some good ones. McCulloch seems to lack top end speed, but could end up being a really good possession receiver. Overall though, you're exactly right, we have long way to go to compete with Oregon. They're absolutely loaded and they're actually red-shirting some guys that would probably be getting a lot of minutes at CU. Not to mention De'Anthony Thomas who has a chance to be really special and he'll be there for at least the next two years.

Yeah. I think our freshmen will be good. When they're juniors and seniors, it's going to take a really good freshman to earn minutes. It's a process.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I dont see KT as a safety, no way, not unless he gets a ton faster. He is too slow for safety and too little for lb, hence a perfect rs candidate. Hell we gotta put somebody out there tho. We have some good young players, I would only call it a start tho. Jesus Christ, Im pretty sure I saw DD Goodson playing db today. Am I wrong on that? We are the definition of mash unit, it might be the worst I have ever seen in a position group.

 

[Lukeasaurus]

i am glad to way in on this! I love Hirch mostly because of his arm strength. He did take way too long to throw the ball, but I hope as he gets more game play he will make quicker reads. It did seem that when he did throw it was to much deeper quadrants than I'm accustomed to seeing Tyler throw.. I too am excited for the Quarterback competition next year, though openly I'm rooting for Hirch because of all the work he has put into this program. I am confused as to why many feel Hanson is the better quarterback... really I don't see it. I'm not saying Hanson, as a senior, shouldn't start, but I think Hirch can open up a field with his arm and open up the run game where Hanson can not.

 

[bigbang2]

i am glad to way in on this! I love Hirch mostly because of his arm strength. He did take way too long to throw the ball, but I hope as he gets more game play he will make quicker reads. It did seem that when he did throw it was to much deeper quadrants than I'm accustomed to seeing Tyler throw.. I too am excited for the Quarterback competition next year, though openly I'm rooting for Hirch because of all the work he has put into this program. I am confused as to why many feel Hanson is the better quarterback... really I don't see it. I'm not saying Hanson, as a senior, shouldn't start, but I think Hirch can open up a field with his arm and open up the run game where Hanson can not.

Couldn't have said it any better. The first time i saw Hirschman play was one years ago during spring drills, he was 3rd string then, behind Cody and Hansen, January early enrolee. The kid threw a deep ball to Josh Smith, that is when i knew the kid got game, baller.

 

[buffsyko]

I'm trying to find the positives (what else can I do?) right now. I see a good amount of decent players amongst the youngsters, but no one I would consider game-changing. We also look small out there.

The lack of production at TE and the lack of a true feature back are issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

CU never uses their TE anyway...

 

[BuffLuke80]

Hirsch has a good arm but 2 huge problems that I see. One, slow release. Two, it takes the guy a year to drop. Combine those, that isnt good. Can they be improved? Yeah but how much is the question. I see nothing wrong with him starting the rest of the way tho.

 

[Black&Yella]

Really?

Honestly, ive seen very little from Hirschman to think he will do anything next year. We all know this is Wood's job to lose come spring camp, and IMO he will take it and run with it. Bottom line, he's got talent. I can actually see Canty as a nice underneath compliment to P Rich over the top with McCullough out of the slot next year. Tony Jones IMO is a good fit for the system. A down field runner with a pretty standard skill set. A real similar player to Stewart who may in fact have a higher ceiling. Ill have to see what Creer has in the remaining games, didnt really see enough today.

We have some talent on this roster, just need to get it on the field like Thornton, who i have no idea why he is not getting on the field.

 

[Duff Man]

CU never uses their TE anyway...

We do not use the TE because we do not have much talent at that position on the roster. I posted something last week about Stanford using 3-4 TEs with regularity and they all bring something to the table. I am not sure we have one complete TE on the roster. That is an issue in a pro style offense. A big issue.

As far as freshmen (both redshirt and true), here are my observations:

Hirschman: He has a good arm, but his footwork concerns me a lot. I hope he proves me wrong, but to me, he looks like a guy that can sling it, but not someone I would be comfortable with as a starter.
Canty: Easily the biggest surprise for me this season. He is small, but I can see him contributing over the next few years in a meaningful way. He runs clean routes and plays bigger than his size. I would love to see what he could do as a slot receiver.
Jones: Like his running style, but you also saw his limitations against a fast defense today. He hits the hole fast and seems to be a capable receiver out of the backfield, but I think he lacks that extra gear to break huge runs. That said, think he is a guy very capable of toting the rock 8-10 times a game at the very least.
Henderson: He continues to impress me more and more. I watched him a lot today and he generally held his ground. He has some speed too. He looks like a legit multi-year starter to me.
Greer: Definitely passes the eyeball test. If we could clone about 3-4 of him and Rippy, I would feel a whole lot better about our LBs. Another guy I think will be a multi-year starter.
McCulloch: I never expected him to see a ton of playing time as a true freshman, but that is what has happened. He does not really stand out in a good way or a bad way right now. Seems like just another player right now. Still think he would be better served to gain weight to be a flex TE.
Washington: Honestly, not sure what to think of Washington at this point. I liked him the most out of the DBs we signed last season, but I question his top-end speed. He looks a step slower than I thought he would be, maybe that is just part of the learning curve, really not sure. Would have some reservations with him being a starter as early as next season.
Tuumalo: Agree with others, that in an ideal situation, he would be redshirting right now. The main issue I had with him coming out of HS still holds true today: I am not sure he has a true position at the college level. Will be interesting to see how he progesses.
Creer: Tough runner who will contribute over the next several seasons. He adds a different dimension that none of the others backs on the team really have, partly due to the fact he is just bigger. Could see him as a short yardage/red zone back throughout his career.

 

[bigbang2]

Hirsch has a good arm but 2 huge problems that I see. One, slow release. Two, it takes the guy a year to drop. Combine those, that isnt good. Can they be improved? Yeah but how much is the question. I see nothing wrong with him starting the rest of the way tho.

The same things were said about PHilip Rivers, funky delievery and etc. Look at Rivers now. Hirschman got a strong arm, his release is fine and his footwork is good even better than Hansen. The only thing the critics can criticize is his arm motion, not his footwork. The exchange between the center and him was smooter. The OL didn't give him enough time to throw. Made some great throws under duress. I can't wait to see Hirschman as a junior in the offense. By then he would have mastered the west coast offense, they would have opened up the play book for him. We will have talent surrounding him.

 

[BuffLuke80]

The same things were said about PHilip Rivers, funky delievery and etc. Look at Rivers now. Hirschman got a strong arm, his release is fine and his footwork is good even better than Hansen. The only thing the critics can criticize is his arm motion, not his footwork. The exchange between the center and him was smooter. The OL didn't give him enough time to throw. Made some great throws under duress. I can't wait to see Hirschman as a junior in the offense. By then he would have mastered the west coast offense, they would have opened up the play book for him. We will have talent surrounding him.

I dont know what tape you watch but Rivers doesnt have bad footwork or slow feet. Thats exactly why he can throw it with that ugly motion. Dan Marino, had good feet, in the pocket, and thats all u need. He had something Hirsch doesnt tho, quick release. If you cant see he's slow at both, God bless ya. He would have to get no pressure and be able to set up every time he throws it. Phillip Rivers, dude isnt even close, maybe u saw it better than me. What do I know? Nothing I guess.

 

[Ozbuff]

We do not use the TE because we do not have much talent at that position on the roster. I posted something last week about Stanford using 3-4 TEs with regularity and they all bring something to the table. I am not sure we have one complete TE on the roster. That is an issue in a pro style offense. A big issue.

As far as freshmen (both redshirt and true), here are my observations:

Hirschman: He has a good arm, but his footwork concerns me a lot. I hope he proves me wrong, but to me, he looks like a guy that can sling it, but not someone I would be comfortable with as a starter.
Canty: Easily the biggest surprise for me this season. He is small, but I can see him contributing over the next few years in a meaningful way. He runs clean routes and plays bigger than his size. I would love to see what he could do as a slot receiver.
Jones: Like his running style, but you also saw his limitations against a fast defense today. He hits the hole fast and seems to be a capable receiver out of the backfield, but I think he lacks that extra gear to break huge runs. That said, think he is a guy very capable of toting the rock 8-10 times a game at the very least.
Henderson: He continues to impress me more and more. I watched him a lot today and he generally held his ground. He has some speed too. He looks like a legit multi-year starter to me.
Greer: Definitely passes the eyeball test. If we could clone about 3-4 of him and Rippy, I would feel a whole lot better about our LBs. Another guy I think will be a multi-year starter.
McCulloch: I never expected him to see a ton of playing time as a true freshman, but that is what has happened. He does not really stand out in a good way or a bad way right now. Seems like just another player right now. Still think he would be better served to gain weight to be a flex TE.
Washington: Honestly, not sure what to think of Washington at this point. I liked him the most out of the DBs we signed last season, but I question his top-end speed. He looks a step slower than I thought he would be, maybe that is just part of the learning curve, really not sure. Would have some reservations with him being a starter as early as next season.
Tuumalo: Agree with others, that in an ideal situation, he would be redshirting right now. The main issue I had with him coming out of HS still holds true today: I am not sure he has a true position at the college level. Will be interesting to see how he progesses.
Creer: Tough runner who will contribute over the next several seasons. He adds a different dimension that none of the others backs on the team really have, partly due to the fact he is just bigger. Could see him as a short yardage/red zone back throughout his career.

Pretty much sums up how I feel about the young talent so far. My only slight disagreement is that I think Tu'umalo could end up being pretty good at safety (I don't think he can bulk up enough for LB, but I could be wrong). Did you get a chance to watch Obi or Major? I was expecting more of an impact from them this year.

 

[BuffLuke80]

We do not use the TE because we do not have much talent at that position on the roster. I posted something last week about Stanford using 3-4 TEs with regularity and they all bring something to the table. I am not sure we have one complete TE on the roster. That is an issue in a pro style offense. A big issue.

As far as freshmen (both redshirt and true), here are my observations:

Hirschman: He has a good arm, but his footwork concerns me a lot. I hope he proves me wrong, but to me, he looks like a guy that can sling it, but not someone I would be comfortable with as a starter.
Canty: Easily the biggest surprise for me this season. He is small, but I can see him contributing over the next few years in a meaningful way. He runs clean routes and plays bigger than his size. I would love to see what he could do as a slot receiver.
Jones: Like his running style, but you also saw his limitations against a fast defense today. He hits the hole fast and seems to be a capable receiver out of the backfield, but I think he lacks that extra gear to break huge runs. That said, think he is a guy very capable of toting the rock 8-10 times a game at the very least.
Henderson: He continues to impress me more and more. I watched him a lot today and he generally held his ground. He has some speed too. He looks like a legit multi-year starter to me.
Greer: Definitely passes the eyeball test. If we could clone about 3-4 of him and Rippy, I would feel a whole lot better about our LBs. Another guy I think will be a multi-year starter.
McCulloch: I never expected him to see a ton of playing time as a true freshman, but that is what has happened. He does not really stand out in a good way or a bad way right now. Seems like just another player right now. Still think he would be better served to gain weight to be a flex TE.
Washington: Honestly, not sure what to think of Washington at this point. I liked him the most out of the DBs we signed last season, but I question his top-end speed. He looks a step slower than I thought he would be, maybe that is just part of the learning curve, really not sure. Would have some reservations with him being a starter as early as next season.
Tuumalo: Agree with others, that in an ideal situation, he would be redshirting right now. The main issue I had with him coming out of HS still holds true today: I am not sure he has a true position at the college level. Will be interesting to see how he progesses.
Creer: Tough runner who will contribute over the next several seasons. He adds a different dimension that none of the others backs on the team really have, partly due to the fact he is just bigger. Could see him as a short yardage/red zone back throughout his career.

Good assessment, I can only add a few things. TJ needs some work reading running lanes. Seen him misread alot of zone and stretch plays. Today and earlier this year saw him completely miss the hole and dont any of u ****ers jerk with that statement lol. That will probably come with reps Im hoping. Hirsh, umm get him doing footwork drills constantly. Hopefully he can drop his 5 step under 10 seconds cause thats about how slow it is. Pretty spot on post tho.

 

[Highlander27]

I don't think anybody is confusing freshmen with playing equating to them being *great*. It's out of necessity. With that being said, EXPERIENCE is a good thing and our young kids are getting doused in it right now. Hopefully they are tasting some crap they don't ever want to go through again. Embree touched on that as well.

I agree with most. Hirschman has some skill. Much better pure passer, with nicer arm and probably better at reading defenses than Hansen is right now. He was hamstrung before the season because he didn't have any game experience and got injured in summer camp. Embree also announced him as the starter early on so that competition was basically over. Anybody with a brain new his skill set was better for this WCO vs. Hansen who has never looked like a drop back passer from day 1.

Canty is solid player with big YAC potential. He's still young, it will be nice to see how he progresses moving forward and into the Spring. I think we are setting up nicely at WR if we can hold our haul of Texas kids this offseason. We might actually in a season or two with P-Rich, Canty, Spruce, Thomas Squared, and Williams. I'd like to see us add the Harper kid if we can as well.

Jones is a nice change of pace back especially in combination with a bigger alternative. Bottom line is if we can get some offensive line who can push the LOS, runners will look better, it will open up the passing game and guys will get open more easily. A slasher like Jones will really take off then. I think he's a guy that you can ear-mark for 15 touches a game between handoffs, catching the ball or special teams.

I thought Creer had some nice tough runs and agree, we don't have anybody like him really on offense. Would like to see him get a little stronger (which will happen) and really start to run downhill. Hard to do that with 8 in the box every play as nobody respects our passing game with Hansen at the helm.

Henderson's been solid. I think he's a 4.5 guy and you could tell running against some 4.4 guys today. That being said, he's quickly setting himself up to be a four year starter. Wish we could see him make some plays on the ball. Haven't really seen that at all.

Greer and Daigh both look like young studs at LB to me. There's a learning curve but they have the want to down pat.

Washington looks much faster than advertised and it will be interesting to see if we can get him and Polk at Safety next to each other in 2012. Kyle fills the lane quick, just plays out of control too much. Haven't seen much pass coverage savvy from him but that's usually because he's in during mop-up time and teams are running the rock against us. Still like what I see early on.

KT is an incomplete. We can't judge the kid. He's been playing LB all year, bumped over to safety this game and his head had to be swimming. Combine that with going against one of the more reverse offensive schemes in the country, i have a lot respect that he did what the coaches asked and played hard. Better days ahead for him.

McCulloch, there is no doubt in my mind they are going to put some weight on this kid and try to have him line up at TE. We are getting deeper at WR pretty quickly and i don't think he'll have the separation required against teams like Oregon and others. So take his weakness and make it an advantage.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I have no issues with your observations Mtn. A couple of things about McCulloch -- 1. I'm not sure they can get him big enough to be a TE in this offense. He might be an H-back type, but I'd be surprised if they can pack 30-35 pounds on that kid; 2. He inpresses me with his down field blocking; that will catch the coaches attention.

Is he an everydown wr in the future? I really don't know.

 

[bigbang2]

I dont know what tape you watch but Rivers doesnt have bad footwork or slow feet. Thats exactly why he can throw it with that ugly motion. Dan Marino, had good feet, in the pocket, and thats all u need. He had something Hirsch doesnt tho, quick release. If you cant see he's slow at both, God bless ya. He would have to get no pressure and be able to set up every time he throws it. Phillip Rivers, dude isnt even close, maybe u saw it better than me. What do I know? Nothing I guess.

Hirschman footwork is fine, even better than Hansen. All he needs is experience, a better OL, he will learn to call the right protection, and make better reads.

 

[tante]

One of Hirschman's first passes was pretty incredible. The WR was double covered by a CB and a Safety, who were both to the inside. He is under heavy pressure so he rifles it down and away, where only the WR can catch it (who managed to drop it after it hit his hands). That is a big time throw right there and it looks like he has great arm strength and good accuracy.

 

[jpbuff]

Hirschman seems throw a much better deeper ball than Tyler can. The pass to bobble hands Clemons was right on the money.

Liked the way Creer ran also. Always took more than one guy to bring him down and he always fell forward. If nothing else this season is going to produce some experienced depth in the future.

 

[96 Buff]

It just shows how awful the "top" of the depth chart is when the freshmen look that good. It's supposed to be that only the very special talent freshmen get playing time AND look good doing so.

 

[Buffnik]

Hirschman footwork is fine, even better than Hansen. All he needs is experience, a better OL, he will learn to call the right protection, and make better reads.

No, it is not. I guarantee that if you asked him and Scherer you would hear that footwork, consistent release point, and quicker release are areas they are working on improving.

The guy went 8/18 with under 4 yards per attempt while taking 3 sacks and botching a handoff, but you act like he's a finished product. In fact, you consistently think that the players already on the roster (including walk ons) are much better than they are. I don't know what you're comparing them to. Most of the older players on our team lack talent. Our young players have average talent for the Pac-12 and are learning. They still need to improve technique, strength and knowledge of our schemes before they're good players.

 

[Heywood]

It just shows how awful the "top" of the depth chart is when the freshmen look that good. It's supposed to be that only the very special talent freshmen get playing time AND look good doing so.

When I watch the frosh out there I see good things and realize that they are doing what they are supposed to do. That is how a running back should run, that is how fast a DB should be etc. So While I dont think these guys will be all p-12 they will be talent that allows us to actually compete with everyone else. And that makes me happy b/c that is all that I wanted out of this team this year. So perhaps we will see that next year with improvement to come.

 

[bigbang2]

No, it is not. I guarantee that if you asked him and Scherer you would hear that footwork, consistent release point, and quicker release are areas they are working on improving.

The guy went 8/18 with under 4 yards per attempt while taking 3 sacks and botching a handoff, but you act like he's a finished product. In fact, you consistently think that the players already on the roster (including walk ons) are much better than they are. I don't know what you're comparing them to. Most of the older players on our team lack talent. Our young players have average talent for the Pac-12 and are learning. They still need to improve technique, strength and knowledge of our schemes before they're good players.

What i saw is a QB that was not protected by the OL, didn't have a good running game to support him. He stood in the pocket shrug off a few defenders and delievered a strike to recievers that dropped 4 passes that 8/18 could have easily being 12/18 with some points on the board if not for recievers dropping balls. I recognize Hirschman is not the finished article, but some folks on here have written him off annointing Connor Wood as the starting QB next year. For a redshirt freshmen with no experience and lack of talent surrounding him he did a pretty good job yesterday. He can only get better. He is on schedule, he looks like a tough to bring down type of QB, that can throw the deep and intermediate balls well. Next spring will be his third spring camp, he can only get better, am excited to see him as a junior.

 

[BuffLuke80]

What i saw is a QB that was not protected by the OL, didn't have a good running game to support him. He stood in the pocket shrug off a few defenders and delievered a strike to recievers that dropped 4 passes that 8/18 could have easily being 12/18 with some points on the board if not for recievers dropping balls. I recognize Hirschman is not the finished article, but some folks on here have written him off annointing Connor Wood as the starting QB next year. For a redshirt freshmen with no experience and lack of talent surrounding him he did a pretty good job yesterday. He can only get better. He is on schedule, he looks like a tough to bring down type of QB, that can throw the deep and intermediate balls well. Next spring will be his third spring camp, he can only get better, am excited to see him as a junior.

Not writing him off but his footwork is pretty bad. He has to improve a ton in that area and the other areas Nik pointed out. Otherwise, he's gonna be carrying a clipboard quite a bit.

 

[slider]

Hirsch kinda reminds me of Pete Thomas

 

[Buffnik]

Hirsch kinda reminds me of Pete Thomas

Pretty good comparison. I think Hirschman has more zip on his ball, though. Probably not as accurate at this point.

 

[buffwoman526]

I really like that we are playing the freshman. We are now playing for next year and giving them the real game time experience against one of the elite teams in our conference may prove to be very valuable by the time they get to Spring ball. I don't expect to win anymore games this year, but we can at least look forward to seeing how some of these young guys progress through the season especially when we get to some of the weaker teams toward the end.