Hobbs, Johnny Stuart and Gerald Thomas are leaving the team

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

It bothers me, too, when I see posters disrespect and belittle Jon Embree the man. The coaching record is fair game. That's why he got paid and he knows the deal with that. But he's a great Buff and always will be. I would argue, actually, that his intense loyalties to other Buffs and the depth of respect he has for CU history did a lot to contribute to the failings as a head coach here.

Unfortunately, Jon Embree the man acted like a petulant spoiled child at his termination press conference. He had an opportunity to be a true man, to admit his shortcomings, to show his love for his University, and to truly be inspirational in his parting. Instead, he revealed his true character, and dragged the University through the mud for a good week before people finally got tired of his ridiculous act.

Jon Embree was once a fantastic football player for the University of Colorado, and a very good position coach. But that is all that remains of his legacy, in my opinion.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Unfortunately, Jon Embree the man acted like a petulant spoiled child at his termination press conference. He had an opportunity to be a true man, to admit his shortcomings, to show his love for his University, and to truly be inspirational in his parting. Instead, he revealed his true character, and dragged the University through the mud for a good week before people finally got tired of his ridiculous act.

Jon Embree was once a fantastic football player for the University of Colorado, and a very good position coach. But that is all that remains of his legacy, in my opinion.

I'm pretty much in line with this. Jon gave the University a black eye that was unjustified. His race card foolishness could have easily burst in to flames nationally with a tiny unsubstantiated rumor popping up in some newsroom. Not that that's ever happened here before.

 

[Buffenuf]

Unfortunately, Jon Embree the man acted like a petulant spoiled child most of his time as HC and especially at his termination press conference. He had an opportunity to be a true man, to admit his shortcomings, to show his love for his University, and to truly be inspirational in his parting. Instead, he revealed his true character, and dragged the University through the mud for a good week before people finally got tired of his ridiculous act.

Jon Embree was once a fantastic football player for the University of Colorado, and a very good position coach. But that is all that remains of his legacy, in my opinion.

fify!......

I was never comfortable or particularly upbeat after watching any WB interview or on-field performance. He did not know how to carry himself as a HC and I never felt he made an effort to learn. His very first chore upon confirming his own staff should have been to cull the HC knowledge from those guys on his staff who had been there and done that (Scheuer, Brookhart, Cabral-interim). Then, instead of worrying about water, he should have had 24/7 meetings with his entire staff until they were all on the same page and all up-to-date on common communications, coaching style, squad strengths and weaknesses, team-building, the state of modern college football and most of all an overall plan to resuscitate the fortunes of CU football.

At no time in the two years he was here, was any of that kind of effort in evidence. That was the huge fault of "Embree the man" and cannot be compartmentalized or set aside in "Embree the coach". I would have accepted a fumble-fingered effort the first year, writing it off to the learning curve, but the fact that all things got even worse the second year was damning, IMO. JE is what his efforts and record show he is as HC: the worst ever at CU.

 

[bigbang2]

Attrition was expected. We have to look at the positives, at least we kept most of our best young defensive players. CU is a good 2 or 3 years away from been relevant again in college football. Dan Hawkins really destroyed our program. Embo started the rebuilding process, now we have to give Mike McIntyre the time to complete the rebuilding process. Our expectations needs to be tempered. We will be lucky to win 3 games next season. My expectation next season is to see the Buffs compete every game, don't want blowouts. I don't really care about the win loss record.

 

[BuffHerd]

Need to put some weight on McCulloch and try him in some sort of flex WR/TE role to get him one-on-one against one of the opponents' slower linebackers. 6-7 yard possession catches to draw some attention off our fast guys and get them open. Otherwise I don't trust the current TE crop's hands. Any of them.[/QUOTE

Not too many of those on the PAC-12 schedule.

 

[Duff Man]

Is McCulloch really going to be effective as a TE?

 

[Buffnik]

Is McCulloch really going to be effective as a TE?

Not inline. In the slot, I like him as a receiving "TE" and he's pretty good at blocking in space. I'm not sure I trust him trying to block a LB, though. Definitely a limited use scenario, but there are circumstances I believe he could be very useful there.

If we're being honest, Tyler is never going to add enough speed & agility to gain separation from Pac-12 CBs. But he could get his weight up to the 225-235 range and be a very effective finesse TE, I think.

 

[slider]

Is McCulloch really going to be effective as a TE?

We don't have many other options

 

[FlatironsBuff]

I'm having a tough time thinking of a post here on AllBuffs that I have ever disagreed with more, and that's saying something.

I agree. JE was hurt, felt lied to by the admin, and lashed out in the media. I wish he had not done so, but in a way, I understand WHY he did it, even if I disagree how he went about it.

Damn the CU admin for going cheap and putting a great Buff in a no win situation. JE never had the qualificatiins and then didn't hire coordunators that DID have the right qualifications. He might have pulled it off if he had.

I know Jon bleeds black and gold, and would have done anything to bring CU back to the glory days. Unfortunately, with the lack of experience. ....it was going to be a much longer learning curve than CU admin or fans were willing to give him.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FlatironsBuff]

It bothers me, too, when I see posters disrespect and belittle Jon Embree the man. The coaching record is fair game. That's why he got paid and he knows the deal with that. But he's a great Buff and always will be. I would argue, actually, that his intense loyalties to other Buffs and the depth of respect he has for CU history did a lot to contribute to the failings as a head coach here.

+1. I was mad at how he handled his termination, but I know he didn't fail for lack of desire to return CU to glory days. I especially don't harbor ill will if MB primised more time then fired him.

That said, not sure five more years would have been enough time for his crew to learn how to be a great well oiled coaching staff.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FlatironsBuff]

I'm pretty much in line with this. Jon gave the University a black eye that was unjustified. His race card foolishness could have easily burst in to flames nationally with a tiny unsubstantiated rumor popping up in some newsroom. Not that that's ever happened here before.

I think Jon, if smart, would issue an apology for how he acted. Admit he was in over his head, say that he had a hot head about it due to losing his dream job. Would be eating alot of crow, but could open a door in the future for a possible co-OC podition, learn that, and maybe a HC at a smaller school. Unless you are a genius superstar coach, you just can't skip those learning steps.

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[sackman]

I think CU failed Embree as much as he failed as coach. He should have never been put in that position in the first place. In the end, he's doing what he is best at - a TE coach. CU has a qualified coach with a huge challenge in front of him. MM wouldn't have been on our radar three years ago, so maybe it is all for the best.

 

[pcbuff]

YEs and No

I think CU failed Embree as much as he failed as coach. He should have never been put in that position in the first place. In the end, he's doing what he is best at - a TE coach. CU has a qualified coach with a huge challenge in front of him. MM wouldn't have been on our radar three years ago, so maybe it is all for the best.

He was not ready and the Admin gave him the job. Of course he put his name in the ring. Plenty of fault to go around. I am more critical of those who surrounded embree. They feed the fire and made his departure ugly. He just went along for the ride rather than putting on the brakes with a difinitve statement like "CU is the best place n the world to coach. I am so lucky to have had the opportunity and so disapointed we didn't get it done."

The first ***** in the MM armor from my perspective is that he has lost most of Embrees meaningful recruits.


Mc Cullough is not a pac 12 reciever on most other teams. Gerald Thomas had the speed to competete in the Pac 12 and is a loss.

 

[buffaholic]

Meaningful recruits? We lost Hobbs who could be a star, at a position of weakness. But HCMM didn't lose him. His dad has an inoperable Tumor the size of a grapefruit on his spine that has made him a Quad.

Thomas has a kid. But honestly, he may never have gotten the PT he got last year again. He had poor hands and despite obvious quickness, I don't recall him making a tackler miss. These things are hard to teach. You possess that skill or you don't.

HCMM hasn't lost anyone else that concerns me. Dillon was damaged goods before he stepped on campus.

HCMM is doing it right. I was around the program pretty closely during the early Hawk years when we desperately needed speed and playmakers. Three freshman came in and gave us some hope in Kendrick Celestine, Simas and Josh Smith. But neither guy would do the things that coaches asked, including learn the playbook. Hawkins made what I believed then and still believe now was the fatal decision. He decided to "let it go". He treated these guys with kids gloves and babied them. I was close to one of these three thru CU's Scholar Donor program. The rules weren't for them, they were for the "lesser guys".

The next year enter D.Scott, who joined Uncle Josh. He already knew before he got here he didn't have to follow those rules and he certainly didn't have to work out!

Kendrick left the program to go back home. He later returned on his own dime and in an interview stated that in his first run at CU, he never "bothered to learn the plays". Coach Kiesau had to make adjustments to get these guys on the field. None of these guys made it to the NFL from what I know. Only Josh Smith played as an upperclassman and he wasn't much at UCLA.

Frankly, I don't care if the entire class of 2012 goes home. If that's what it takes. But as I stated above, that's not going to be the case. There's a couple guys who have to get their asses in gear academically and otherwise. If they aren't going to do work, better to know now.

One thing you will see with the 2013 late signers is they all have a chip on their shoulder and a good work ethic. I also believe we will be surprised at what we got here.

 

[Duff Man]

I just hope we are not repeating a cycle of playing guys early, assuming every young guy is automatically going to get better, and not recruiting quality depth to constantly push incumbent starters.

 

[MtnBuff]

I think CU failed Embree as much as he failed as coach. He should have never been put in that position in the first place. In the end, he's doing what he is best at - a TE coach. CU has a qualified coach with a huge challenge in front of him. MM wouldn't have been on our radar three years ago, so maybe it is all for the best.

Agree with this completely.

Jon is a good man but was thrown into a situation for which he was utterly unprepared to deal with and without the kind of support that would have even given him a chance to survive long enough to start figuring it out. Had they spent the money for an experienced coordinator who know what it took to win and could communicate that to Jon he would have maybe done better. At the same time if they had been willing to spend the money needed to hire one of those guys they would have been willing to spend more money on the HC to start with.

I'm not sure that Jon can't be a good HC someday. He needs more experience and better support to do it but I think he could. His explosion when he got fired from this job is going to make most employers think twice before considering him. With a program as screwed up as we were with the lack of resources and more importantly the lack of leadership, support, and expectations from the Chancellor's office and above I don't know how many coaches would have succeeded with a team that had a distinct lack of talent and a strong acceptance and expectation of losing.

I hope that some day Jon can get past his pride long enough to realize that he handled a bad situation in a way that made it worse and work on an appropriate way to mend some fences. Unfortunately he was the one who choose to respond the way he did so he needs to be the one to make the steps towards mending the damage. People are surpisingly willing to forgive when someone steps up and takes responsibility for their errors.

 

[JimmyBuff]

Every week there seems to be more players leaving. I sure hope people are patient here because I'm really concerned about how bad we are going to be this year.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Agree with this completely.

Jon is a good man but was thrown into a situation for which he was utterly unprepared to deal with and without the kind of support that would have even given him a chance to survive long enough to start figuring it out. Had they spent the money for an experienced coordinator who know what it took to win and could communicate that to Jon he would have maybe done better. At the same time if they had been willing to spend the money needed to hire one of those guys they would have been willing to spend more money on the HC to start with.

Who do you think picked Eric Bieniemy to be the offensive coordinator? Embree took less pay because he wanted Bieniemy to be on staff. And Bieniemy pay was double that of Hawkins' offensive coordinator.

If Embree needed more support, maybe he shouldn't have been such a dumbass with his coaching staff.

I'm not sure that Jon can't be a good HC someday. He needs more experience and better support to do it but I think he could. His explosion when he got fired from this job is going to make most employers think twice before considering him. With a program as screwed up as we were with the lack of resources and more importantly the lack of leadership, support, and expectations from the Chancellor's office and above I don't know how many coaches would have succeeded with a team that had a distinct lack of talent and a strong acceptance and expectation of losing.

The rant he went on after he was fired is going to make it pretty difficult to be a head coach again. Plus, he was a dismal failure. Horrible head coach + no class = easy decision for anyone trying to hire a head football coach.

I hope that some day Jon can get past his pride long enough to realize that he handled a bad situation in a way that made it worse and work on an appropriate way to mend some fences. Unfortunately he was the one who choose to respond the way he did so he needs to be the one to make the steps towards mending the damage. People are surpisingly willing to forgive when someone steps up and takes responsibility for their errors.

Part of the problem is that Embree (and his supporters) don't think he did anything wrong.

 

[somebody]

geez how many people do you have on ignore.

Mine's now up to 47, but half are some form of jrk... :smile2:

 

[MtnBuff]

Who do you think picked Eric Bieniemy to be the offensive coordinator? Embree took less pay because he wanted Bieniemy to be on staff. And Bieniemy pay was double that of Hawkins' offensive coordinator.

If Embree needed more support, maybe he shouldn't have been such a dumbass with his coaching staff.



The rant he went on after he was fired is going to make it pretty difficult to be a head coach again. Plus, he was a dismal failure. Horrible head coach + no class = easy decision for anyone trying to hire a head football coach.




Part of the problem is that Embree (and his supporters) don't think he did anything wrong.

He picked EB for two reasons. One was that they were best buds and agreed to be a package deal. The other was that no quality experienced coordinator in his right mind was going to come to a school that was working so much on the cheap that they would hire an completely unprepared HC who then had to go to the bottom of the salary barrel to pay his OC. This was also why they ended up with Brown instead of an experienced DC. The support was not there period no matter who they hired, JE and Co. were ignorant enough to accept it.

As I said the way he handled his firing is going to make any future prospective employer hesitant to consider him. You could add how he handled a lot of things leading up to the firing. No question that he took a bad team and made it much worse. At the same time I think he is smart enough and dedicated enough that given some years to learn the stuff he didn't know this time he could be a decent coach in the right situation. I don't think he is likely to get that chance though unless he goes to a lower level program on his way and proves himself, and even that may be off the table.

Jon is a very proud guy and his pride got in the way of him seeing how bad a job he actually did. I hope, but am not counting on, that he can over time reflect and realize that the problem was not racism or agendas or any of the other things he wants to blame it on. The problem for the largest part was that he did a lousy job. As ugly as his leaving was I do believe that in time if he is willing to accept responsibility for his actions and take the first steps towards admitting that he was wrong, people will be willing to be more forgiving and to an extent welcome him back into the program, at least on a limited basis.

There will always be those who maintain a high level of anger towards him just as there are those who despite the clearly obvious failure of his efforts will support him to the end. I think most people are in the middle and if he is willing to step up are willing to appreciate what he did as a player while dealing with his disaster as a coach.

 

[sackman]

Who do you think picked Eric Bieniemy to be the offensive coordinator? Embree took less pay because he wanted Bieniemy to be on staff. And Bieniemy pay was double that of Hawkins' offensive coordinator.

If Embree needed more support, maybe he shouldn't have been such a dumbass with his coaching staff.



The rant he went on after he was fired is going to make it pretty difficult to be a head coach again. Plus, he was a dismal failure. Horrible head coach + no class = easy decision for anyone trying to hire a head football coach.




Part of the problem is that Embree (and his supporters) don't think he did anything wrong.

I agree that the way he handled his departure was completely classless. My contention was that he never should have been hired for that job in the first place. That's as much on CU as it is on Embree. He was grossly unqualified. CU hired him hoping he'd turn out to be good, despite a lack of evidence that said he would. The seeds of Embrees blow-up were sown the day he was hired.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I like Embree, think the guy was hurt more than anything. Wish it could've worked out. It's not a good idea to say ur gonna spit on his grave when he's worn that uni. Once a Buff, always a Buff. We have a few former players on the board, think before you write that bs.

 

[Dark Bohner]

I like Embree, think the guy was hurt more than anything. Wish it could've worked out. It's not a good idea to say ur gonna spit on his grave when he's worn that uni. Once a Buff, always a Buff. We have a few former players on the board, think before you write that bs.

Who said they were going to spit on his grave? I think most everybody on this board acknowledges that he was understandably hurt. Where Embree lost almost all credibility, and rightfully so, was he started dragging CU through the mud publicly with groundless accusations of racism.

Sorry, I'm not okay with that at all. The current state of our beloved program is in very large part due to another public smear campaign that was almost entirely false. To this day I still seethe about the witch hunt that CU was subjected to, for no other purpose then to drive an agenda and cash in on accusations. Anybody, and I mean anybody (Bill McCartney ring a bell?), who tries to attack my alma mater publicly without reasonable cause is going to find me without a shred of sympathy or respect for their situation.

 

[bigbang2]

I like Embree, think the guy was hurt more than anything. Wish it could've worked out. It's not a good idea to say ur gonna spit on his grave when he's worn that uni. Once a Buff, always a Buff. We have a few former players on the board, think before you write that bs.

:nod:

 

[Dark Bohner]

I like Embree, think the guy was hurt more than anything. Wish it could've worked out. It's not a good idea to say ur gonna spit on his grave when he's worn that uni. Once a Buff, always a Buff. We have a few former players on the board, think before you write that bs.

:nod:

I rest my case.

 

[BuffWarHog]

That's harsh man. They didn't spurn us out of spite. IMO once a Buff always a Buff(except when you turn against use like Water Bottle). Even though I don't agree with how Klatt handled himself after the Water Bottle dumping, I still have a tiny bit of respect for him, simply because he's an Alum and seems to be on board now. No respect for WB though, he can die tomorrow and I'll spit on his grave.

buffedup - there were some who mentioned it....

 

[BuffLuke80]

Who said they were going to spit on his grave? I think most everybody on this board acknowledges that he was understandably hurt. Where Embree lost almost all credibility, and rightfully so, was he started dragging CU through the mud publicly with groundless accusations of racism.

Sorry, I'm not okay with that at all. The current state of our beloved program is in very large part due to another public smear campaign that was almost entirely false. To this day I still seethe about the witch hunt that CU was subjected to, for no other purpose then to drive an agenda and cash in on accusations. Anybody, and I mean anybody (Bill McCartney ring a bell?), who tries to attack my alma mater publicly without reasonable cause is going to find me without a shred of sympathy or respect for their situation.

There was a poster that did, anyway doesn't matter. He handled it wrong but some go a little too far.

 

[DenverBuff77]

Who said they were going to spit on his grave? I think most everybody on this board acknowledges that he was understandably hurt. Where Embree lost almost all credibility, and rightfully so, was he started dragging CU through the mud publicly with groundless accusations of racism.

Sorry, I'm not okay with that at all. The current state of our beloved program is in very large part due to another public smear campaign that was almost entirely false. To this day I still seethe about the witch hunt that CU was subjected to, for no other purpose then to drive an agenda and cash in on accusations. Anybody, and I mean anybody (Bill McCartney ring a bell?), who tries to attack my alma mater publicly without reasonable cause is going to find me without a shred of sympathy or respect for their situation.

I was the one who said it and I'm really sorry. I completely take it back. I should've said I'll send hate mail to Embree telling him he's a loser for tarnishing the reputation of the CU, if I could ever find his email addy. Ever since Barnett opened his mouth about the kicker we've had nothing but embarrassment from our coaches. JB with the Big 12 football rant and then WB claiming the most ridiculous racism comments ever. After watching HCMM inspire confidence on the P12 media day my anger seethed over and my words were an embarrassment to this board. This does not justify what I said and I again I apologize.

 

[Wyo Buff]

I was the one who said it and I'm really sorry. I completely take it back. I should've said I'll send hate mail to Embree telling him he's a loser for tarnishing the reputation of the CU, if I could ever find his email addy. Ever since Barnett opened his mouth about the kicker we've had nothing but embarrassment from our coaches. JB with the Big 12 football rant and then WB claiming the most ridiculous racism comments ever. After watching HCMM inspire confidence on the P12 media day my anger seethed over and my words were an embarrassment to this board. This does not justify what I said and I again I apologize.

'nuff said, let's move on. We need all the support we can get. I think it's time to looke forward rather than dredge up the crap from the last decade. I would only add that anytime a Buff gets attacked, even one who has been placed in a bad position and fails to rise above it, I will have their back. I tell my kids (and clients for that matter) that "words mean stuff." It's usually worth a pause before you hit Reply.