How does CU fix attendance for basketball?

[absinthe]

Women play in the Omni Hotels Invitational every year.

Tad will be a very tough sell on scheduling he wants to put himself in a position that 2011 is never repeated, and many "name" schools dont want to come to boulder and tangle with Tads roughly .800 home win % i think there is some room to work but locking us into a preseason tourney that hurts our RPI and limits our variety of opponent isnt something Tad is willing todo

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Tad will be a very tough sell on scheduling he wants to put himself in a position that 2011 is never repeated, and many "name" schools dont want to come to boulder and tangle with Tads roughly .800 home win % i think there is some room to work but locking us into a preseason tourney that hurts our RPI and limits our variety of opponent isnt something Tad is willing todo

I was just pointing out that the NCAA is fine with a preseason tourney every year. Honestly if we were to jump into a locked in tourney year in and year out like @Buffnik suggests, it would need to include 1 marquee team in the general vicinity. For example:

1 Seed: KU, KSU, UT, etc.
2 Seed: CU
3 Seed: CSU/AFA/Wyo
4 Seed: UNC
5 Seed: Denver
6 Seed: Ft. Lewis

Do a consolation bracket for third place, guaranteeing every team at least 2 games.

 

[absinthe]

I was just pointing out that the NCAA is fine with a preseason tourney every year. Honestly if we were to jump into a locked in tourney year in and year out like @Buffnik suggests, it would need to include 1 marquee team in the general vicinity. For example:

1 Seed: KU, KSU, UT, etc.
2 Seed: CU
3 Seed: CSU/AFA/Wyo
4 Seed: UNC
5 Seed: Denver
6 Seed: Ft. Lewis

Do a consolation bracket for third place, guaranteeing every team at least 2 games.

The bolded is the absolute key, you probably want to play it in Denver as well for the neutral site RPI bump

 

[Buffnik]

I was just pointing out that the NCAA is fine with a preseason tourney every year. Honestly if we were to jump into a locked in tourney year in and year out like @Buffnik suggests, it would need to include 1 marquee team in the general vicinity. For example:

1 Seed: KU, KSU, UT, etc.
2 Seed: CU
3 Seed: CSU/AFA/Wyo
4 Seed: UNC
5 Seed: Denver
6 Seed: Ft. Lewis

Do a consolation bracket for third place, guaranteeing every team at least 2 games.

One idea I had that I think would be fun would be to do a CO-NM challenge. Colorado, Denver, New Mexico, New Mexico State. Rotate it between UNM and CU arenas in alternate years. Or play it at Pepsi if the draw justified it.

 

[CitizenKane]

I've been to three games so far this year (Thanks to some posters who have sold me their tickets). My perspective is a little different because I just moved back to the area after being away in San Diego. Before I left I was a season ticket holder for both men's and women's hoops. In part because it was a great deal and in part because I have daughters that loved the games. But here are my thoughts on the causes of poor attendance.

1. Starting with the debacle in the NCAA tournament against Pittsburgh and ending with this season, CU had played a really bad style of basketball that was just tough to watch. Long scoring lapses were expected every game. This turned a lot of people I know off from the team (I just watched and seethed). In many ways watching a talented team play a horrible style of basketball was worse than when CU was just undermanned and outgunned and lost all the time. They are playing better this year, but still have had long stretches where they have played poorly. Anyone who watched only the 1st half of Iowa State, Auburn, Fort Lewis or CSU would think this team is the same old same old. Regardless of the team pulling out wins or playing markedly better in the second half. This is a tough hurdle to overcome because CU is competing not just for entertainment dollars but to increase someone's attention span. In a society where we have more and more to distract us, those moments where you lose someone's attention can be costly. If the team keeps improving this will resolve itself by early January.

2. A complete lack of marketing by CU and no inroads made with local media. You need to do something to get folks to talk about CU hoops every day on the radio and on TV. I haven't heard much of anything. Put the AD, Tad, assistants and players on different sports talk radio shows and on TV every single day.

3. The ticket price thing is a real issue. Comparing CU's ticket prices to UCLA, USC, Stanford or Cal is just silly. They are in an different economic reality. Don't believe me, fine sell your house and try and buy a comparable home near those places for even a similar cost. You can't do it. Comparing CU to Arizona isn't legitimate either as Arizona is consistently a top ten team. So that leaves CU being comparable to Utah, Oregon, Oregon State and Arizona State. If you look at one of the previous posts, CU's ticket prices are slightly higher than most of those teams...oh and by the way, those teams aren't selling their tickets either, despite all of them being off to good starts. So lower prices back to where they were and get rid of that premium game surcharge.

4. Very limited national media attention. Part of this is a CU issue and part of this is an issue the PAC has created with the PAC networks. The only way CU can overcome the PAC network issue is to schedule more early season tournament games and better early season opponents from conferences that get on ESPN, Fox or other more widely available networks. Course, if you schedule those games you also have to win your share of those games. National buzz feeds local buzz, feeds ticket sales.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I don't really get the ticket price issue. On average its still the cheapest ticket in the Denver metro.

They need to be more visible in the market though. CU could dominate the Denver metro for basketball if they chose to spend the money to do so.

A couple of years ago CU basketball was becoming an event in Denver. You had Elway sitting courtside, playing catch with the C-Unit. You had the C-Unit being so raucous that it was worth going to the games to see THEM perform. Last years performance on the court really hurt that momentum. I also think the team has been missing some "Star Power" since SD got hurt/left. Josh Scott is a star quality talent, but he isn't an in your face personality like The Mayor. GMFK has that kind of potential, and really XJ does too should he come back.

I think the attendance issue really just boils down to last year was ****ty. It was ****ty to watch the game at the CEC, it was ****ty to watch the games on TV. Everything about last years product, was frustrating. From the top players being removed from the starting line up due to showing up late to shoot around, to the senior leadership being non-existent, to the coach being lazy in his coaching style, last season was complete garbage. I almost didn't purchase season tickets because of it.

 

[Daaah]

[QUOTE="Shldr2Shldr, post: 1914060, member: 3075"]I don't really get the ticket price issue. On average its still the cheapest ticket in the Denver metro.

[/QUOTE]

You have multiple people saying they couldn't find tickets to BYU for less than $60. You think that is a reasonable price for that game?

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

[QUOTE="Shldr2Shldr, post: 1914060, member: 3075"]I don't really get the ticket price issue. On average its still the cheapest ticket in the Denver metro.

You have multiple people saying they couldn't find tickets to BYU for less than $60. You think that is a reasonable price for that game?[/QUOTE]

Yes. Its a home game against a tournament caliber opponent. It was tournament level basketball and I guarantee you won't find tournament tickets for anywhere near $60.

2 years ago, that game is sold out and 3rd party tickets are pushing $100. Guaranteed. YOU may not have paid it, and some of the other casual basketball fans here probably wouldn't have paid it, but that arena would have been full.

 

[boulder77]

I don't really get the ticket price issue. On average its still the cheapest ticket in the Denver metro.

To piggyback on Daaah's post:

The quoted might very well be true. I'm not going to take the time to look up Nugs, Avs, or DU hockey/basketball prices, but my point is that CU fans have been spoiled, and while CU basketball may be one of the cheapest in the area, the prices are close to double what they were 2,3,4 years ago. Now, I understand that we were underpriced back then, and that some increase has to be expected. Just saying that folks who took a family to the game 3 years ago for $50-80 are now looking at $80-120 or so. Lots of our less dedicated fans are turned off by price increases, crappy play in 2014, hum-drum opponents, weird start times, and changing weather conditions. The solution is to turn the "less dedicated" fans into "fanatics" (thanks, Captain Obvious). Not really sure how that is accomplished.

 

[absinthe]

You have multiple people saying they couldn't find tickets to BYU for less than $60. You think that is a reasonable price for that game?

To piggyback on Daaah's post:

The quoted might very well be true. I'm not going to take the time to look up Nugs, Avs, or DU hockey/basketball prices, but my point is that CU fans have been spoiled, and while CU basketball may be one of the cheapest in the area, the prices are close to double what they were 2,3,4 years ago. Now, I understand that we were underpriced back then, and that some increase has to be expected. Just saying that folks who took a family to the game 3 years ago for $50-80 are now looking at $80-120 or so. Lots of our less dedicated fans are turned off by price increases, crappy play in 2014, hum-drum opponents, weird start times, and changing weather conditions. The solution is to turn the "less dedicated" fans into "fanatics" (thanks, Captain Obvious). Not really sure how that is accomplished.

It depends where those seats were located - we cant go back and look at BYU but looking ahead to Utah (closest thing i could think of) that seat cost puts you in one of the best 6 sections in the whole building. So yes its total reasonable if some one bought all the cheap tickets and the only ones left were in Secs 20-22 and 8,9 & 10. Spot checking the nuggets against Houston for tonight has similar seats in Pepsi going for $115-150 from the box office.

Secondary markets for both teams were cheaper.

 

[absinthe]

2 years ago, that game is sold out and 3rd party tickets are pushing $100. Guaranteed. YOU may not have paid it, and some of the other casual basketball fans here probably wouldn't have paid it, but that arena would have been full.

Which game are you referencing KU? if so I sold 4 tickets together for that game (last row sec 11) on the secondary market for $1,000

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

To piggyback on Daaah's post:

The quoted might very well be true. I'm not going to take the time to look up Nugs, Avs, or DU hockey/basketball prices, but my point is that CU fans have been spoiled, and while CU basketball may be one of the cheapest in the area, the prices are close to double what they were 2,3,4 years ago. Now, I understand that we were underpriced back then, and that some increase has to be expected. Just saying that folks who took a family to the game 3 years ago for $50-80 are now looking at $80-120 or so. Lots of our less dedicated fans are turned off by price increases, crappy play in 2014, hum-drum opponents, weird start times, and changing weather conditions. The solution is to turn the "less dedicated" fans into "fanatics" (thanks, Captain Obvious). Not really sure how that is accomplished.

Have to make the games an event again.

1) Advertising. We have one of the best sports video programs in the country and we can't produce some kind of TV spot that makes it look like a game at CEC is a must see event?

2) Go back to the rewards system that made the C-Unit rabid. I don't care if its bribery, get asses in the seats. Select the top 50 students and send half of them to Vegas and half to Seattle for the tournaments for men and women. Give them free swag. Bohn by most measures was not the best AD, but he knew how to engage the students.

3) Upgrade the CEC asap. Put in club boxes, to help offset ticket and donation prices for the average fan, put in a new sound system and find a way to put a center scoreboard in.

The first 2 steps can be done tomorrow. CU attendance was up the past few years because it was fun to go to the games. The C-Unit created a high energy environment that cannot be matched in the Denver metro. Fans felt like part of the action and felt like they had an impact on the game. Casual fans put in a lot of energy and effort last year to try and support and push a team that couldn't have cared less about who was in the building watching them play. The only game where any of them got up for an opponent was when Ski was playing against USC infront of his mom and he refused to lose.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Which game are you referencing KU? if so I sold 4 tickets together for that game (last row sec 11) on the secondary market for $1,000

No I mean if we were playing BYU two years ago that the secondary market would have been red hot because the team was fun to watch and going to the games was something everyone wanted to be a part of. I could have sold my 2 GA tickets for KU at $200 a piece to scalpers in front of CEC. That type of price though is more indicative of the KU fans though then of the CU fans. They buy season tickets at opponents venues just to make sure they can see their Jayhawks.

 

[Buffnik]

Good insight, @CitizenKane .

One that jumps out at me is #1 because it's something I've noticed in the game threads. There's a lot of football-style basketball viewing by the fans. By that, I mean that there's an expectation of wire-to-wire domination of a lesser opponent. Or at least that once the team overcomes early adrenaline and asserts its will, that it will just roll to the finish line. But hoops is a game of ebbs and flows along with runs. Like that old quote, "It's easy to come back. It's hard to come back and win." If a team goes up by 15, there's almost certainly going to be a segment that cuts it back to single digits at some point. In don't think many of our fans really grasp that. I was sitting next to a guy who I believe went home frustrated and disappointed by the BYU game because the team didn't keep piling on its 25-point lead. Not just frustration with the speed of the BYU run, Tad's slow trigger on the timeout, and how deep that run went... but frustration that the lead didn't go from 25 to 40 over the last 15 minutes. The expectation is unrealistic and reflects a lack of understanding for the sport.

The other thing that jumps out is the lack of national exposure. Tad hasn't been willing to put his team in bad spots in order to get more national tv. I'm sure he could get a one-off visit to UConn or Syracuse or Michigan State or North Carolina or Kentucky to get more exposure. But he won't do that. Other Pac-12 programs like ASU do that. But as I brought up before, I think the bigger issue is that he doesn't focus enough on "name" programs for the home schedule. Weak teams like a Tulane, DePaul and Loyola Marymount or Bradley have some history for basketball fans and simply "look" better on the season ticket package than some directional schools that get scheduled.

 

[NW Buff]

Could they use the idea of sending a group of students to the Pac12 tournament to get more students to every game? Get an extra ticket in the drawing for each game you show up for or something along those lines.

I do think Tad needs to acknowledge his part in this. He had momentum and really screwed up with last year's team.

 

[scoob]

I do think Tad needs to acknowledge his part in this. He had momentum and really screwed up with last year's team.

Tad has acknowledged this many times publicly.

 

[Darth Snow]

I think people need to stop focusing about on-court results -> yes, they matter, but the question here is about what off-court things can be done to help. Winning is a cure all, but a temporary one. There needs to be a foundation underneath it to make it easier to handle downward trends. Every school has bad years. We need to find off-court ways of preventing bad years from cratering support while increasing support during good years.

 

[Daaah]

We need to get in the top 25.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I think people need to stop focusing about on-court results -> yes, they matter, but the question here is about what off-court things can be done to help. Winning is a cure all, but a temporary one. There needs to be a foundation underneath it to make it easier to handle downward trends. Every school has bad years. We need to find off-court ways of preventing bad years from cratering support while increasing support during good years.

Bribe the students. They are the key. Students create the environment that everyone goes to college basketball games to be a part of. That is where it starts. This AD under RG has done a terrible job at fostering student interest.

 

[sockdolager]

nm

 

[Darth Snow]

Bribe the students. They are the key. Students create the environment that everyone goes to college basketball games to be a part of. That is where it starts. This AD under RG has done a terrible job at fostering student interest.

Yup. As far as I can tell, the CUnit needs more help, and not just in money. I don't see RG addressing this ever, which is a goddamn shame.

 

[sockdolager]

[QUOTE="Shldr2Shldr, post: 1914060, member: 3075"]I don't really get the ticket price issue. On average its still the cheapest ticket in the Denver metro.

You have multiple people saying they couldn't find tickets to BYU for less than $60. You think that is a reasonable price for that game?[/QUOTE]
I purchased BYU tickets on Stubhub for 8 dollars each two days before the game.

 

[NW Buff]

Tad has acknowledged this many times publicly.

Then there should be a bit of patience on his part. We are nine games removed from that with only one remotely compelling home game.

 

[Daaah]

You have multiple people saying they couldn't find tickets to BYU for less than $60. You think that is a reasonable price for that game?

I purchased BYU tickets on Stubhub for 8 dollars each two days before the game.[/QUOTE]
If you were able to get tickets for $8 on the secondary market, then perhaps the university's decision to price them at $60 wasn't quite right.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Yup. As far as I can tell, the CUnit needs more help, and not just in money. I don't see RG addressing this ever, which is a goddamn shame.

I am going to wait until he gets football back to generating big money before I judge him on his other endeavors. I personally blame Ceal for the decline of the C-Unit. She cut the budget for them as interim AD and I have a feeling its because it "wasn't fair" that they went to the Men's games and tournament and not the women's. Again, thats just my opinion. No inside info to back that up other than what I know of her.

 

[Buffnik]

I am going to wait until he gets football back to generating big money before I judge him on his other endeavors. I personally blame Ceal for the decline of the C-Unit. She cut the budget for them as interim AD and I have a feeling its because it "wasn't fair" that they went to the Men's games and tournament and not the women's. Again, thats just my opinion. No inside info to back that up other than what I know of her.

I don't know. But that event which required attending a women's game to get into the men's game lottery was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I don't know. But that event which required attending a women's game to get into the men's game lottery was an unmitigated disaster.

It was for the KU game I think. Maybe it was for the UofA game. Either way yes. Guarantee that wasn't RG's idea.

 

[absinthe]

If you were able to get tickets for $8 on the secondary market, then perhaps the university's decision to price them at $60 wasn't quite right.

For the second time - the $60 is for what are considered "Mid court" and "court side" tickets only; not every ticket was priced at $60 for this game. Using again the Utah comparison tickets are available for as low as $20 all of the $20 for BYU sold out and so there were only more expensive tickets left. You cant sell a court side seat for less than $40 or mid court for less than $30 because then its cheaper for season ticket holders to buy individual game seats and attendance as well as your stable revenue stream gets hurt.

 

[absinthe]

It was for the KU game I think. Maybe it was for the UofA game. Either way yes. Guarantee that wasn't RG's idea.

It was the KU game and it happened under RG's watch.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

It was the KU game and it happened under RG's watch.

I know he was AD, but I don't think he was the mastermind behind it.

I honestly think he has been so busy with the football facilities project and lining up donors that he has been letting someone else handle basketball.