White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
Yeah he was also a pretty decent CB prospect wasn't he? Hopefully this just means JE isn't messing around and is only going after the top guys.
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How the coaching change impacts recruiting
- Thread starter Duff Man
- Start date
If you're not a Scout member, you're missing out a bit on this one: The new way forward
Sources said two things have become clear about Embree's philosophy so far. He does not want to take risks on players with marginal academic records unless they are difference-makers on the field. And he won't be casting as wide a net for recruits as the last staff did.
Sources said two things have become clear about Embree's philosophy so far. He does not want to take risks on players with marginal academic records unless they are difference-makers on the field. And he won't be casting as wide a net for recruits as the last staff did.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Embree:
-Deliberate in staff choices.
-Deliberate in recruiting choices.
I'm beginning to see a trend here...
I know it is early in the Embree tenure at CU, but I think he and EB are going about this the right way. Instead of throwing a bunch of offers out to mid level to lower level prospects, he is starting to set a standard that it is a privilige to be offered at CU. He is not settling which I like. I hope he can back it up with a couple of high profile recruits this cycle. He is instilling a change in attitude across the entire program. It should be fun to watch him with the team in the Spring and Fall camps.
canuck_buff
Active Member
Beautifully stated!
Nice. A more concentrated recruiting strategy should work much better than the last staff's plan. Throwing a dart to a map of the US is not a sound strategy.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
Tom Shane is making a bad face right now. He has friends in the Russian mafia.....errrrr, I mean diamond industry.
I think this statement is a reach. You threw out a few names, but what about all the other guys? For instance, look at some of these players in the 2010 class: Dakota Poole, Justin Favors (never made it in), Keenan Canty, Cordary Clark, Keenan Canty, Henley Griffon, and Trea Jones. You gonna tell me most of the guys in that group will be studs?
The biggest issue with recruiting all over the place is the attrition rate seems to be much higher for those players versus players from traditional recruiting areas.
Here are some other names to think about: Matt Ballenger, Jameson Davis, Eugene Goree, Devan Johnson, Lagrone Shields, Lamont Smith, Quintin Borders, Jason Brace, Sherman Lang, Ino Vitale Jr., Ryan Wallace, Gus Handler, Shaun Simon. How many of those guys have made any sort of significant impact on the field?
I think it's a valid point to bring up that maybe African American kids and their parents didn't relate well to Hawkins or much of his staff. Got to be careful here, because it's an unfair and racist generalization to assume that all AA prospects are looking for the same things and respond to the same things. But we did seem to sign a lot more white kids under Hawkins than is typical for CU. For example, look at our OLs.
Regardless, that's in the past and this thread is about how the coaching change impacts recruiting. When you look at Jon Embree's own background and the staff he has assembled, we have a staff with a diverse ethnic heritage and with diverse personal backgrounds. I feel very confident that our new staff will be able to relate to just about any prospect we recruit to Boulder.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Well if Keenan Canty can clone himself then he is studly already! haha.
just kidding...but you are right to point out the hodge-podge tactics that Hawkins used to fill his classes (aside from the "great" year at least).
not taking away from your point, but IMO, Handler will be a very good player for us and will get quality reps this spring and be a two-year starter at center for us in 2012-13.
SteelCity Buff
Member
I agree with the premise that CA and TX should always be our primary out of state recruiting grounds, but it also seems to me that CU's had some degree of success in some secondary locations- during Mac's tenure, it seemed like we retained kids from Michigan and Louisiana at a pretty decent clip.
I think someone mentioned Arizona as a place we need a presence, and I'd imagine we need to have a heavy presence in Vegas and AZ since they're in the footprint of the P12 south. Are there any other places you'd be outside of CA & TX?
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
Keep the Ohio and Don Bosco presence -- lots of good players available, imo.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
Yes
I just wrote a long retort to BB's statement...and then I figured it was pointless - I guess I sort of agree. My thought is that if Embree gets this ship righted, his staff should be willing to target a few kids in states they don't go into too often. For now though, the west region with a heavy emphasis on CA, CO and TX is fine. Still, it looks like OH and NJ are states with inroads already made...keep it open.
I'm not saying you ignore states like OH, NJ, or LA. I am saying the last staff got a little too carried away with the "we'll take 'em from anywhere" philosophy. Wasting resources in Kentucky or Alabama really puts you in a bad spot. I am glad the new staff realizes that a real focus on a few states and building from there is the way to go.
Absolutely. Focused strategy trumps scattergun every time.
So much of recruiting is relationships. Not just with the players and their families, but with coaches, administrators, pastors, and others who will continue to help the program over time. You can't build that if you're all over the place.
Of course you make exceptions. Bieniemy's cousin is a high school head coach in New Orleans. Tony Jones' godfather has become a friend of the program for North Jersey cities. There are others. You absolutely nurture those relationships rather than dropping them. But for CU, the primary focus must be Colorado, California and Texas. Secondarily, it's Hawaii, Arizona, Utah and Nevada. And of course we start sending letters to any top prospect in the West during their sophomore year in hopes that they reciprocate interest even if they may be from Arkansas, Minnesota or Montana.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Hawaii needs to be in the top three/four.
I think we've done better in Hawaii than we have in Texas over the last 10 years.
The scattergun approach was one of desperation. There were some connections that made sense. Rippy brought in Stewart, good thing b/c not sure Rippy will ever play BTW. The Don Bosco and Northern NJ connection is worth working hard. Not sure we have recruited well in Dallas in awhile. The guys we signed haven't worked out.
EB has connections in New Orleans.
McGhee has Houston connections.
I'm guessing Brookhart still has solid connections in PA and Ohio from his Pitt/Akron days.
You use these relationships
EB has connections in New Orleans.
McGhee has Houston connections.
I'm guessing Brookhart still has solid connections in PA and Ohio from his Pitt/Akron days.
You use these relationships
It was desperation to sign Ryan Wallace out of Kentucky in 2008 and also to try and sign one of his teammates that same year? It was desperation to target Dalton Freeman out of South Carolina that same year? That class was the crowning achievement of the previous coaching staff. Take a look at the number of states represented in the offers sent out by the staff that year. Thirty-one states (31!) are represented.
I think that strategy was a failure, and your point above actually makes that point. Ryan Wallace left after 1 season. His friend never came and we never got another guy out of KY. In fact, Hawkins signed two from KY and they never played a down. He signed guys like Obi from Georgia, and we never got anything going from that state and Obi hasn't returned dividends. We signed two D-Line guys from Tennessee and same result.
Even where we've been successful here an there (guys like Speedy and West who had no other options), we still didn't get any sort of pipeline going.
Recruiting is sales. I own a sales company. It's the 80/20 rule. Spend your time on your bread and butter. The last staff had some connections in California but they couldn't fill a class between CA and CO, so they scattershot around looking for guys elsewhere. Most of the guys they got elsewhere didn't turn out too well.
As the years went on, they were taking kids further and wider. From schools where they had no eyes/ears on the ground to validate what they may have thought. That's where relationships help. You learn this kid won't work hard. This kid smokes pot daily. This kid has had it tough at home but a change of scenery will work wonders. Etc.
This staff needs to leverage where they are well-connected and work those areas hard. Hawaii, Poly kids wherever they are from. Pac12 South footprint areas. Anywhere else they may have past relationships. Go nationwide because you never know where a kid may be from that has a connection to CU or wants to be here for whatever reason. But make sure his ONLY reason is NOT because CU is the only one who really has a committable offer.
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