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I just want to win -- HC situation

Buffnik

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I don't have the energy for it any more. I just want to win, damnit!

As I've said, I'm trusting RG.

But I do feel like this year's team regressed. More patience required along with some staff changes? It's not exciting. It's hard to defend the record or the trajectory. And it's a huge risk with so much of the future hinging on a good 2016 season resulting in a great 2017 recruiting class.

If RG decides to take that risk, I'll be along for the ride and be supportive. I'm not emotionally invested in MacIntyre. Seems like a good guy and a solid football coach who has a plan. But not everyone is able to successfully take what they did at smaller programs and make it happen on a bigger stage. There's evidence of this all over the place. Look at Wyoming and how they're doing with maybe the best 1-AA coach ever at the helm. Look at Texas where they've got a HC who quickly turned around a dumpster fire at Louisville. Look at Nick Saban and Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier not being able to make it happen on the NFL level. Very few coaches, no matter how good they might be, will be successful in every coaching situation.

What does that mean for CU, though?

Frankly, I don't think I want to take a risk on a coordinator or on a head coach who has been successful on a smaller stage or on a failed NFL coach. Sure, all those things have worked. All those things have also failed. If RG decides to risk a coaching change, he's got to make an investment in someone who mitigates the current risk while driving fan excitement.

If Les Miles is available, that's a no-brainer. You pull the trigger.
Same thing if any highly successful P5 coach wants out of his current situation and is interested in CU.

I'd even go so far as to look at coaches who had a ton of success and are not in a job right now.

Butch Davis? I'd hire him in a heartbeat. Greg Schiano? Welcome to Boulder. Jim Tressel? I'd buy and donate a team tattoo shop. Bo Pelini? My wife is allowed to put Carl on her "Hall Pass" list.

Short of someone like that, though, I think we stay the course another year and see what happens.
 
Regardless of who the head coach is next year, winning has to be the expectation. If its HCMM the bar has to be a winning season. Period. If its another coach, they better bring in a person who can at least match the overall win record this year, whatever that ends up being.
 
All indications are that MM is staying through the 2016 season. I'm ok with that. We have been bad for so long that I really don't feel the pain of losing anymore.
 
I think the HC situation is becoming a polarizing issue with the fan base(the few that still care). You have laid out the old - keep him until someone better shows up. I think you make a decision to change first and clear out the position. I believe it is tacky to look for someone when the position is already filled.

I would say the best coaches at CU since I have followed them were Eddie Crowder, Bill McCartney and Gary Barnett. Both Crowder and McCartney were assistants at highly successful programs (OU and Michigan) and both were great recruiters. So I would be willing to take a risk on a coordinator from a top program especially if he was a recruiter.
 
Barring total incompetence, which we HAVE endured, we really need to have a little patience and let a HC realize enough years that the majority of players are guys he recruited. MM gets another year. Or two.
May this question be settled before ten. Win, MM, win.
 
BlackNGold said:
I think the HC situation is becoming a polarizing issue with the fan base(the few that still care). You have laid out the old - keep him until someone better shows up. I think you make a decision to change first and clear out the position. I believe it is tacky to look for someone when the position is already filled.

I would say the best coaches at CU since I have followed them were Eddie Crowder, Bill McCartney and Gary Barnett. Both Crowder and McCartney were assistants at highly successful programs (OU and Michigan) and both were great recruiters. So I would be willing to take a risk on a coordinator from a top program especially if he was a recruiter.
Click to expand...

I see your point. But nothing stops putting out feelers through agents. The real risk there is that the agent decides to leak it and use it as leverage to drive up price for his client at another program. Then you've got a sitting head coach you've put in a really bad position.

This is done all the time, though.
 
I've got no horse in the race, and like the topic says, I just want to win. It's got to the point that I don't even watch half the games. I DVR them thinking that I'll end up watching them, but when I see the results I think - why bother? Enjoying the buffs on Saturdays is something I really miss. I love sitting around and watching college football and everything that goes with that, but it just isn't the same when I'm hoping the buffs can squeak out a win so that they may be able to take advantage of an injured utah team that just might overlook the buffs enough to result in a win so that we can be the first team ever to go to the drain-o bowl with a losing record.

I can't do anything but trust that RG will do the right thing. I'm ok with keeping MM or moving on to someone he thinks is better.
 
I want MikMac to succeed mainly because another new HC means at least a couple more years of rebuild. OTOH, I have a hard time justifying a fourth year aside from the slim glimmer of hope CU turns the ship around next year and wins 6-7 games.

Tressell, Butch, Schiano, sure. I would add Tedford, Herman, and probably 4-5 other guys to that list. If RG pulls the trigger, I won't be upset. Dare I say my support for MikMac is on a razor hair?
 
RG knows this wasn't a 3 year turnaround. He's smarter than that. So Mac's getting a 4th year despite the disappointing season and not being "RG's guy." But next year is Mac's make or break year. I think all parties know that. More of the same and he's gone. Bowl game and he stays. It's really that simple.
 
Buffnik said:
If RG decides to take that risk, I'll be along for the ride and be supportive. I'm not emotionally invested in MacIntyre. Seems like a good guy and a solid football coach who has a plan.
What does that mean for CU, though?
Click to expand...

I'm to the point that I do not believe that there is a "right" hire out there for CU at this time. To paraphrase Warren Buffett: "If a great management team takes over a lousy business, it is almost always the reputation of the lousy business that remains intact."

Right now CU is a lousy business. Has been for a dozen years. Yes, there is Rick George and his Taj Mahol, but it takes a leadership team (Benson and DiStaphono) that is bought in on the concept of making a good business. Les Miles, Butch Davis, Greg Schiano, any Pelini - these guys are not going to be allowed what they have to do legally or illegally to build a winning team in Boulder. But at least Davis, Schiano, and Pelini have big enough exposed character flaws that they might be willing to take a job at CU because they are too damage to get any better of a gig. Forget Les Miles, he is not damaged enough to take the CU job, no matter how much smoke comes our of the bong of some internet bully.
 
Les Miles is 62. He might only coach another 5 or 6 years before he decides to retire. I'm fine with that. There is a very good chance he'd leave a top 25 team to his successor. Given his success at Okie St. and LSU, it seems almost certain that we'd at least be a regular bowl participant. Except for his first OSU team in 2001, he's been bowling every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Miles#Head_coaching_record

Greg Schiano is less of a sure thing. 6 winning season and 5 losing seasons.

Obviously Tressel is as good as it gets, but I'm not sure I'd want that baggage and I suspect the same is true of many in positions of power.

Butch Davis? Pretty good but also has baggage.

Bo Pelini? No thank you!

I do agree that we might as well stay the course for one more year if we're not going to break the bank for a proven P5 coach with top tier bowls on his resumé. Either MM finally turns it around or we have to make a big name hire after next season.
 
Don't really care anymore. What I actually mean, is I don't have it in me anymore to care..We have to put our trust in RG, what else can we do? we are at his mercy.

I agree Nick - I / we just want to win.
 
leftybuff said:
I want MikMac to succeed mainly because another new HC means at least a couple more years of rebuild.
Click to expand...

You honestly believe that a couple more years of MacIntyre won't be classified as "rebuild"? What has happened so far to lead you to see that the sufficient build has already taken place?

I'm not advocating for the firing of MacIntyre. I honestly do not see much hope in CU's ability to bring in anybody any better at this point in time.
 
Buffnik said:
I see your point. But nothing stops putting out feelers through agents. The real risk there is that the agent decides to leak it and use it as leverage to drive up price for his client at another program. Then you've got a sitting head coach you've put in a really bad position.

This is done all the time, though.
Click to expand...
All that would happen in this scenario is Rick George would deny, deny, deny.
 
Buffnik said:
I don't have the energy for it any more. I just want to win, damnit!

As I've said, I'm trusting RG.

But I do feel like this year's team regressed. More patience required along with some staff changes? It's not exciting. It's hard to defend the record or the trajectory. And it's a huge risk with so much of the future hinging on a good 2016 season resulting in a great 2017 recruiting class.

If RG decides to take that risk, I'll be along for the ride and be supportive. I'm not emotionally invested in MacIntyre. Seems like a good guy and a solid football coach who has a plan. But not everyone is able to successfully take what they did at smaller programs and make it happen on a bigger stage. There's evidence of this all over the place. Look at Wyoming and how they're doing with maybe the best 1-AA coach ever at the helm. Look at Texas where they've got a HC who quickly turned around a dumpster fire at Louisville. Look at Nick Saban and Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier not being able to make it happen on the NFL level. Very few coaches, no matter how good they might be, will be successful in every coaching situation.

What does that mean for CU, though?

Frankly, I don't think I want to take a risk on a coordinator or on a head coach who has been successful on a smaller stage or on a failed NFL coach. Sure, all those things have worked. All those things have also failed. If RG decides to risk a coaching change, he's got to make an investment in someone who mitigates the current risk while driving fan excitement.

If Les Miles is available, that's a no-brainer. You pull the trigger.
Same thing if any highly successful P5 coach wants out of his current situation and is interested in CU.

I'd even go so far as to look at coaches who had a ton of success and are not in a job right now.

Butch Davis? I'd hire him in a heartbeat. Greg Schiano? Welcome to Boulder. Jim Tressel? I'd buy and donate a team tattoo shop. Bo Pelini? My wife is allowed to put Carl on her "Hall Pass" list.

Short of someone like that, though, I think we stay the course another year and see what happens.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure RG could sell this admin on hiring Davis.
 
I am where Nik is on this one. I do not care who the coach is at this point. I am not emotionally invested in MM and he can stay or go. But if we make a change, I want the admin to go and get a HC who has success and the chops in a P5 job. Get a big fish with a proven track record of success and pay for it. We are in a much better situation to attract candidates with the improvement in facilities and the fund raising that has been done. I am not sure going the route of a proven assistant works in this situation anymore. Crowder and Mac 1 were hired more than 30 years ago and the news and information cycle was completely different than the instant and all news all day world we live in today. If we make a change, it has to pay immediate benefits and cannot be a process that takes another 3 years. We need to get better and start winning next year.
 
Regarding Schiano, he took over the worst college football program in the nation. We're talking awful for 100 years. He lost for his 1st four seasons. Then won 8-11 games in 5 of the next 6 (one bad 4-8 mess in the midst of that). And the next 3 years after he left were bowl seasons, so whatever he put in place was sustainable.
 
Tatanka™ said:
Les Miles is 62. He might only coach another 5 or 6 years before he decides to retire. I'm fine with that. There is a very good chance he'd leave a top 25 team to his successor. Given his success at Okie St. and LSU, it seems almost certain that we'd at least be a regular bowl participant. Except for his first OSU team in 2001, he's been bowling every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Miles#Head_coaching_record

Greg Schiano is less of a sure thing. 6 winning season and 5 losing seasons.

Obviously Tressel is as good as it gets, but I'm not sure I'd want that baggage and I suspect the same is true of many in positions of power.

Butch Davis? Pretty good but also has baggage.

Bo Pelini? No thank you!

I do agree that we might as well stay the course for one more year if we're not going to break the bank for a proven P5 coach with top tier bowls on his resumé. Either MM finally turns it around or we have to make a big name hire after next season.
Click to expand...

Is your sole reason for passing on Pelini due to his husker history?
 
Personally, I am to the point that the Devil himself could coach CU. It's time for the fans to demand more. We deserve to see some winning, it's been way long enough. What have any of us done to deserve all this? We are pretty much all that is left. We are like the stray dog that keeps getting kicked off the porch and just keep coming back.
 
Buffnik said:
I don't have the energy for it any more. I just want to win, damnit!

As I've said, I'm trusting RG.

But I do feel like this year's team regressed. More patience required along with some staff changes? It's not exciting. It's hard to defend the record or the trajectory. And it's a huge risk with so much of the future hinging on a good 2016 season resulting in a great 2017 recruiting class.

If RG decides to take that risk, I'll be along for the ride and be supportive. I'm not emotionally invested in MacIntyre. Seems like a good guy and a solid football coach who has a plan. But not everyone is able to successfully take what they did at smaller programs and make it happen on a bigger stage. There's evidence of this all over the place. Look at Wyoming and how they're doing with maybe the best 1-AA coach ever at the helm. Look at Texas where they've got a HC who quickly turned around a dumpster fire at Louisville. Look at Nick Saban and Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier not being able to make it happen on the NFL level. Very few coaches, no matter how good they might be, will be successful in every coaching situation.

What does that mean for CU, though?

Frankly, I don't think I want to take a risk on a coordinator or on a head coach who has been successful on a smaller stage or on a failed NFL coach. Sure, all those things have worked. All those things have also failed. If RG decides to risk a coaching change, he's got to make an investment in someone who mitigates the current risk while driving fan excitement.

If Les Miles is available, that's a no-brainer. You pull the trigger.
Same thing if any highly successful P5 coach wants out of his current situation and is interested in CU.

I'd even go so far as to look at coaches who had a ton of success and are not in a job right now.

Butch Davis? I'd hire him in a heartbeat. Greg Schiano? Welcome to Boulder. Jim Tressel? I'd buy and donate a team tattoo shop. Bo Pelini? My wife is allowed to put Carl on her "Hall Pass" list.

Short of someone like that, though, I think we stay the course another year and see what happens.
Click to expand...

I would take Tressel in a heartbeat. I would guarantee that CU would be competitive in season 2. I would bet the farm on it. I could not care less about silly tatoos. Mickey mouse infractions in my opinion. Osborne let full on criminals play for his team. Selling some gear to get walking around money is nothing.
 
I would rather shutter the football program than have Pelini as head coach, even if he could win. He's not a bad coach, but he is a total scumbag.
 
Colorado Track Fan said:
I would take Tressel in a heartbeat. I would guarantee that CU would be competitive in season 2. I would bet the farm on it. I could not care less about silly tatoos. Mickey mouse infractions in my opinion. Osborne let full on criminals play for his team. Selling some gear to get walking around money is nothing.
Click to expand...
I would be willing to bet that CU would be competitive in year 1. Look what Harbaugh has done at Michigan in 1 year....THAT is progress. Losing to Hawaii is not progress.
 
Colorado Track Fan said:
I would take Tressel in a heartbeat. I would guarantee that CU would be competitive in season 2. I would bet the farm on it. I could not care less about silly tatoos. Mickey mouse infractions in my opinion. Osborne let full on criminals play for his team. Selling some gear to get walking around money is nothing.
Click to expand...

You were not paying attention or were just hearing what you wanted to hear. Tressel didn't just let kids get some walking around money. Tressel was caught lying to his boss and to the NCAA. There have been enough backstories on Tressel to show he fronts as a moral character, but is real nature is that of Tom Osborne.
 
Perhaps surprisingly, I'm at the same point as Nik. While I saw strong improvement in the defense, I'd say the offense and Special Teams under-performed. I do believe though if we look at the bottom line, scoring differentials, you'd see that we improved again.

How long does it take to really do a turnaround, and are there bumps along the way?

It took David Cutliffe 5 years to get to a bowl, going 6-7. Look at Bill McCartney (CU), Nick Saban (MSU), Mark D'Antonio (MSU). This year's PAC12 darling, Mike Leach, went 3-9 last year, coming off a bowl year. There was no sign of improvement in that program and there was a lot of support to move him out of there.

I can come up with 10's of coaches who had a bumpy rebuild taking 4+ years. It's hard to find many complete turnarounds of the nature we are dealing with, so the blueprint is murky.

I would not support a firing that just opened up the job to see what we can find. I would not be upset if Rick George made a move right now, and could "next day" name the successor with Les Miles, Jim Leavitt, or Jim Tressell, etc. No thanks on Bo Pelini, his NU teams were not getting better with time, and the talent level he inherited had a lot of NFL guys. Sort of the Gary Barnett story. Good coach, but not what this program needs.
 
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