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If Prime Were To Leave

BuffUp said:
Someone like Prime that is used to
wining and it coming easy. How does that type of personality handle such a hard row to hoe?
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I don't think baseball came easy to him, but he still carved out what would have been a respectable career in the grand scheme of things.

His NFL career was exceptionally long and not solely easy elite athleticism.

He has eye popping talent that few have, but his success puts him in an even smaller group. The challenges he conquered are very different than most face, but he didn't get where is by not putting in an elite amount of effort
 
rosstr said:
He’s done wonderful at raising the talent level in the problem. The athletes just look so much better.

The real problem is we need a college style system to plug those athletes into. Build discipline and fundamentals and real strategy, instead of a BS match-up pro-style concepts. Those can only work at the NFL and Alabama level. No reason with the talent Prime brings in, we couldn’t go 9-3 every year running pure Read Option.
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I don't think you can do both at the same time. Travis, Xavier Weaver, Jimmy Horn, LaJohntay, Will Sheppard probably Seaton all go elsewhere if you're trying to prioritize Big XII wins over pro development.
 
Robert Sorell said:
I don't think you can do both at the same time. Travis, Xavier Weaver, Jimmy Horn, LaJohntay, Will Sheppard probably Seaton all go elsewhere if you're trying to prioritize Big XII wins over pro development.
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You can have a high flying passing offense that is system based, that produces points and highlights skill players. Ask the great Mike Leach. But that is a highly refined and perfectly executed system and operation. Most of those Tech WR and QBs were plug and play mid even P5 guys. Graham Harrell?!

Can’t run a match-up based backyard random NFL offense with no backbone philosophy.
 
Robert Sorell said:
I don't think you can do both at the same time. Travis, Xavier Weaver, Jimmy Horn, LaJohntay, Will Sheppard probably Seaton all go elsewhere if you're trying to prioritize Big XII wins over pro development.
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If development supersedes winning, that’s a different calculus then a lot of the fans here signed up for.

Theoretically, we will have years where it will all come together with a winning season. But most of the time will muddle along with a mess like last night.

As the NFL creeps further and further into college football, what I just described is most likely what happens. If we reach the day where the NFL is financing things that will mean that they are sending to CU football players that need development and coaches that need grooming before the big time. Under such an arrangement development would take priority over winning. Lots of 500 football.
 
I think I made it known when I started this thread that I don't want Prime gone. I fear what will happen come that day. I just hope Prime sees the writing on the wall that Pat is a major problem.
 
InTheBuff said:
I think I made it known when I started this thread that I don't want Prime gone. I fear what will happen come that day. I just hope Prime sees the writing on the wall that Pat is a major problem.
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This is the first year in Primes coaching career he’s carried the same OC from one season to the next, I think. He has no issue moving on from people, but the real test is going to be Hart. I think Shurmur gone is a no brainer and he will see to that, but Hart has been with him from the beginning. At the very least he needs to move to a more administrative coaching role on staff.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
You said, if Prime can’t do it we’ll have a hard time attracting good coaches. I took that as “if Prime can’t do it, no one can” and I think that’s a weird take. Do you feel like our talent level right now exceeds anything that another good coach/recruiter could pull in? Maybe not Juju and Seaton but everyone else? Would another coach with a legitimate system and great playcalling ability be able to elevate this talent to be successful?
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I think plenty of coaches CAN do it. The issue, imo, will be the job perception vs the reality. Reality is that we will pay top dollar for a coach. Perception might be that it’s not possible to get enough talent here and that it’s harder than most other places to win because of our 20 year history.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Development vs winning? What are we even talking about? Most big time programs run college specific systems and they develop guys and win. This narrative that CU and Prime is this NFL development factory is weird. Winning in college football requires talented players, great coaching, and great playcalling. Development comes with all that.
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I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying the words out of Prime's mouth were, "NFL not NIL."

I think there's a range of guys from Travis being shown the path to become the #2 pick, to B.J. Green and CSC guys being shown the path to UDFA who is prepared for a pro mentality, that aren't coming to Boulder if Prime is prioritizing a system like Brent Key is with Georgia Tech.
 
Robert Sorell said:
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying the words out of Prime's mouth were, "NFL not NIL."

I think there's a range of guys from Travis being shown the path to become the #2 pick, to B.J. Green and CSC guys being shown the path to UDFA who is prepared for a pro mentality, that aren't coming to Boulder if Prime is prioritizing a system like Brent Key is with Georgia Tech.
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Georgia Tech had the 23rd ranked recruiting class (21st HS and 32nd transfer) last year.

CU had 24th overall (38th HS and 19th transfer).

Do you get the feeling that this current offensive style that isn’t a “system” is developing anyone?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Georgia Tech had the 23rd ranked recruiting class (21st HS and 32nd transfer) last year.

CU had 24th overall (38th HS and 19th transfer).

Do you get the feeling that this current offensive style that isn’t a “system” is developing anyone?
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I don't like the model, my eyes and ears tell me Prime's model is to put pro development first and that it will lead to winning. I think that's where he gets the guys he gets.

I think Key wouldn't have brought in half the talent that Prime did in '23 and '24 coming off of 1-11 and 4-8.

I think that the distribution in talent for those '25 ratings is much more top heavy potential NFL types for Prime.
 
Robert Sorell said:
I don't like the model, my eyes and ears tell me Prime's model is to put pro development first and that it will lead to winning. I think that's where he gets the guys he gets.

I think Key wouldn't have brought in half the talent that Prime did in '23 and '24 coming off of 1-11 and 4-8.

I think that the distribution in talent for those '25 ratings is much more top heavy potential NFL types for Prime.
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But you’re arguing that we can’t implement a system because it hinders our argument for NFL development, which I don’t buy.

Also, his “NFL not NIL” was a nice slogan a couple years ago before NIL had really taken off and Revenue sharing was a thing. If he’s not going to embrace paying guys their market value, which means being a lot more involved in fundraising efforts, then we’re always going to have a budget ass team.

People don’t realize (or forget) that Shedeur and Travis didn’t take a dime from CU’s NIL funds. Those guys, collectively, would normally cost a program at least $3m/year, maybe more. Prime has to start leveraging his connections for $$ if he wants to compete, plain and simple.
 
Bread said:
I think plenty of coaches CAN do it. The issue, imo, will be the job perception vs the reality. Reality is that we will pay top dollar for a coach. Perception might be that it’s not possible to get enough talent here and that it’s harder than most other places to win because of our 20 year history.
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Eh. Is there that perception at Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, Kansas, Utah, ASU, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan State, etc? If we are willing to pay $7-10m for a HC, $1-1.5m for coordinators, fully fund revenue sharing, are committed to facility upgrades, and continue having football friendly transfer and admission standards, plenty of high quality coaching candidates will come.

I honestly think there’s a lot left to be desired in recruiting efforts and I’m not sold on the narrative that what Prime is doing with it is CU’s ceiling.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
But you’re arguing that we can’t implement a system because it hinders our argument for NFL development, which I don’t buy.
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I think it's possible to shift gears now to a different, more college style system, but it's inextricably (unnecessarily?) tied together for how Prime seems to approach it.

I don't think your able to get 4 NFL roster or practice squad, upperclassmen, WRs in the building if you're not already Ohio State, or not putting NFL pro style development at the fore in 2024.

Nico Iamaleava proves both our points. Supposedly, he left Tennessee because he wanted an offense that better prepared him for the NFL. Now he's not winning, and not improving his draft stock at UCLA, but he's still got more talent than Aguilar, and he still chose to go play where the staff communicated a willingness to prioritize his pro development.

I think there's a path where someone can recruit as well as Prime without having the pro style focus, but it's a different sort of talent and a different group of assistant coaches to do it, with different pitches.

It's also the comments Prime makes about, "why would I recruit you, in the transfer portal era, if I don't think you're going to play this year?" You have to have a 2 deep littered with guys who've been through at least a couple spring and fall camps to implement a system that's more than just trying to line up and win battles.

Maybe a more direct explanation of what I'm trying to say is that Prime is Prime, not something we can cobble together in a build-a-bear workshop out of ideal traits.
 
The formula is simple: HCP needs to stop hiring friends and ex-NFLers with zero experience and start surrounding himself with solid, workhorse no name CFB coaches who have proven themselves up through the ranks.

HCP should be the superstar, the MC, the power and the glory guy. Everyone else should be technicians sitting in the dark behind closed doors making the machine go.
 
Robert Sorell said:
I think it's possible to shift gears now to a different, more college style system, but it's inextricably (unnecessarily?) tied together for how Prime seems to approach it.

I don't think your able to get 4 NFL roster or practice squad, upperclassmen, WRs in the building if you're not already Ohio State, or not putting NFL pro style development at the fore in 2024.

Nico Iamaleava proves both our points. Supposedly, he left Tennessee because he wanted an offense that better prepared him for the NFL. Now he's not winning, and not improving his draft stock at UCLA, but he's still got more talent than Aguilar, and he still chose to go play where the staff communicated a willingness to prioritize his pro development.

I think there's a path where someone can recruit as well as Prime without having the pro style focus, but it's a different sort of talent and a different group of assistant coaches to do it, with different pitches.

It's also the comments Prime makes about, "why would I recruit you, in the transfer portal era, if I don't think you're going to play this year?" You have to have a 2 deep littered with guys who've been through at least a couple spring and fall camps to implement a system that's more than just trying to line up and win battles.

Maybe a more direct explanation of what I'm trying to say is that Prime is Prime, not something we can cobble together in a build-a-bear workshop out of ideal traits.
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I think they attracted the WRs because Shedeur was legit and they knew they were going to throw the ball around 40+ times/game. If that’s the development angle then I agree. I don’t agree that defensive guys like BJ Green wouldn’t have come. You can still emphasize NFL development and have a winning team
 
Job is attractive. Primary limiters spooking coaches were removed

Coaches Club doesn’t hold him in high regard like the CU fanbase has…. His failure at CU would be seen by many as vindication of their low opinions on the man and his methods, not the program

I thought (and still do) that without his kids, his fire would wane. He’d realize the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I’m fairly certain when it happens it’ll be faith / health related

I have no doubt we could hire a great coach. Whether our AD can execute is a different question. Much better situation than post-Karl. Prime was the exact person we needed to breathe life into the program, but likely need a different type of leader for the next phase
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Of course you would. Playing in a bunch of states with no alums and terrible weather, destined to be a perennial conference speed bump like NU. UCLA will NEVER win the B1G. You know who will? Ohio State, Michigan, sometimes Penn St. Maybe Oregon wins. Maybe.

You guys are all over there in the cord cutter thread trying to figure out how you can give the TV ****s more money to further wreck the wasteland college football has become. 🤣
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Maybe Oregon? Can someone else handle this, please? Thanks.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
This is the first year in Primes coaching career he’s carried the same OC from one season to the next, I think. He has no issue moving on from people, but the real test is going to be Hart. I think Shurmur gone is a no brainer and he will see to that, but Hart has been with him from the beginning. At the very least he needs to move to a more administrative coaching role on staff.
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Hopefully Hart could go be a coach or DC at an HBCU and have a smooth relocation. I am surprised by Livingston’s struggles. The 4-2-5 is not working. Feels like we need a 3-3-5 and get Oatis at nose so we can solidify the front. Unlike the NFL, getting to the QB is less functional with college offenses, so rush ends are mostly run stoppers.
 
@Hank had an interesting idea that I have been coming back to--- he suggested we hire a GM like an nfl team would do. I dunno if that is what the title would be, but to basically have a cap/nil manager watching the budget and suggesting ways to create space and opportunities seem like a pretty good idea. in the current system we are locked in as as 2nd tier team, behind after-thought never-win programs in the b10 and sec. we need to be very smart with our spends.

gt beating Clemson and a resurgent FSU are really good for the acc. no one is carrying the water yet for the b12 and of those trying, we aren't in the top tier of conference schools at the moment.
 
Liver said:
@Hank had an interesting idea that I have been coming back to--- he suggested we hire a GM like an nfl team would do. I dunno if that is what the title would be, but to basically have a cap/nil manager watching the budget and suggesting ways to create space and opportunities seem like a pretty good idea. in the current system we are locked in as as 2nd tier team, behind after-thought never-win programs in the b10 and sec. we need to be very smart with our spends.

gt beating Clemson and a resurgent FSU are really good for the acc. no one is carrying the water yet for the b12 and of those trying, we aren't in the top tier of conference schools at the moment.
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Maybe our HC who doesn’t specialize in coaching and makes a top 10 salary could chip in as a GM

We have someone with a GM title currently as well
 
Liver said:
@Hank had an interesting idea that I have been coming back to--- he suggested we hire a GM like an nfl team would do. I dunno if that is what the title would be, but to basically have a cap/nil manager watching the budget and suggesting ways to create space and opportunities seem like a pretty good idea. in the current system we are locked in as as 2nd tier team, behind after-thought never-win programs in the b10 and sec. we need to be very smart with our spends.

gt beating Clemson and a resurgent FSU are really good for the acc. no one is carrying the water yet for the b12 and of those trying, we aren't in the top tier of conference schools at the moment.
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That’s not a Hank idea, that’s what literally every big time program already has, CU included. His name is David Kelly.
cubuffs.com

David Kelly - Football Coach - University of Colorado Athletics

David Kelly
cubuffs.com cubuffs.com
 
We have a Dir of Personal, Dir of Recuiting, Chief of Staff, Dir of Player Development and a few other staff positions. I’m starting to question what the hell all these guys do. When the car starts sputtering, you look under the hood.
 
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