If Prime Were To Leave

[Trogdor]

I thought I'd be happy you guys suck again.

And I was right.

I'm just kidding. Losing sucks. Majorly. **** that one's been taken.

 

[#1 pick]

His secret heart of hearts play was likely getting his sons and company playing time on a bigger stage than Jackson State... Which is great.

Now were in the part where we need to see if he can actually do the job without the players he spent years previously developing. In my mind there is a learning curve now for CP.

I don't think you are giving him the credit for what he is.

 

[#1 pick]

It's about a decade old, but this heat map from 2016 (1st graphic) which plotted the geographic origins of every FBS player in the country and was consistent over multiple years... along with this 247s map of where the top 15 recruits home towns were for 2000-2021 (2nd graphic) really drive home that CU is dead center of the "Blue Chip Desert."

CU can and has been humming when it has built the right staff to kill it with a footprint of LA/OC/SD, DFW/H-Town, and in-state I-25 corridor. But the talent concentrated in ATL greater metro and Tampa/Orlando/Miami is a flippin' bonanza if we can tap into it beyond that traditional footprint. CU requires a much larger recruiting budget and a very strategic organization & staffing to compete at the top by being a targeted national recruiting program.

Colorado and Nebraska had things in the 80s and 90s that just doesn't exist today because everyone cares about football in 2025 outside of UCLA. Prop 48 was the king of Colorado and Nebraska. Coach Prime is the great equalizer for at least the recruiting and even he's not enough considering NIL. If NIL didn't exist but the portal did. I think Prime could win a natty in Boulder. When guys like Underwood would be worth 30 players on your roster, how do you compete and that's Michigan. Not even the real spenders like Ohio State, Texas, and Texas A&M.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Colorado and Nebraska had things in the 80s and 90s that just doesn't exist today because everyone cares about football in 2025 outside of UCLA. Prop 48 was the king of Colorado and Nebraska. Coach Prime is the great equalizer for at least the recruiting and even he's not enough considering NIL. If NIL didn't exist but the portal did. I think Prime could win a natty in Boulder. When guys like Underwood would be worth 30 players on your roster, how do you compete and that's Michigan. Not even the real spenders like Ohio State, Texas, and Texas A&M.

Which is why they need to get an anti trust exemption and collectively bargain without making players employees. They have to figure out a way to implement a hard salary cap across the board.

 

[Buffnik]

Colorado and Nebraska had things in the 80s and 90s that just doesn't exist today because everyone cares about football in 2025 outside of UCLA. Prop 48 was the king of Colorado and Nebraska. Coach Prime is the great equalizer for at least the recruiting and even he's not enough considering NIL. If NIL didn't exist but the portal did. I think Prime could win a natty in Boulder. When guys like Underwood would be worth 30 players on your roster, how do you compete and that's Michigan. Not even the real spenders like Ohio State, Texas, and Texas A&M.

Like how it's always been, it's driven by who can offer players the best deal. It's just within the rules now. I think the transfer rules are the biggest difference and challenge, not NIL. One thing that helps CU and others that aren't located in a recruiting hotspot is that games are so much more accessible so you don't have to recruit against the friends & family only getting to see a few games a year.

One thing about so many CU players being away from home that's advantageous is that it builds a family atmosphere in the program. You don't have players going back to hang out with friends in their neighborhood on the weekends. They're together. I think that advantage is hurt by having a high percentage of transfers with a mercenary mentality. CU is leaning into its strengths and is a better team when the players are together from high school - more than at most places. For that reason, HS recruiting needs to be the focus and it is ok (preferred) to maybe have fewer guys with NFL potential or who are on the roster but won't help on Saturdays for a year or three for team cohesion & best program results.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Like how it's always been, it's driven by who can offer players the best deal. It's just within the rules now. I think the transfer rules are the biggest difference and challenge, not NIL. One thing that helps CU and others that aren't located in a recruiting hotspot is that games are so much more accessible so you don't have to recruit against the friends & family only getting to see a few games a year.

One thing about so many CU players being away from home that's advantageous is that it builds a family atmosphere in the program. You don't have players going back to hang out with friends in their neighborhood on the weekends. They're together. I think that advantage is hurt by having a high percentage of transfers with a mercenary mentality. CU is leaning into its strengths and is a better team when the players are together from high school - more than at most places. For that reason, HS recruiting needs to be the focus and it is ok (preferred) to maybe have fewer guys with NFL potential or who are on the roster but won't help on Saturdays for a year or three for team cohesion & best program results.

The difference is that we are now talking mud and high six and seven figures for talent acquisition, whereas back in the day, it was a fraction of that delivered in McDonalds bags

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I don't think you are giving him the credit for what he is.

Oh? What is he then?

 

[Buffnik]

The difference is that we are now talking mud and high six and seven figures for talent acquisition, whereas back in the day, it was a fraction of that delivered in McDonalds bags

There's definitely a lot more money available now that it's not just shadow boosters and can be on a public company's balance sheet as an advertising expense. But that should actually help schools like CU that have a more robust local economy. I think it eventually will once things calm down and sanity prevails with boosters who got excited but aren't going to be able to sustain this as an every-year thing.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

There's definitely a lot more money available now that it's not just shadow boosters and can be on a public company's balance sheet as an advertising expense. But that should actually help schools like CU that have a more robust local economy.

Not really. It’s still almost entirely funded by interested boosters who are worth 8/9/10 figures, not local businesses. CU is trying to get local car dealerships, local Taco Bell franchises, etc to give deals to players while TTU, tOSU, Texas, aTm, Georgia, Tennessee, Oregon, etc are just writing checks for nothing in return.

 

[Buffnik]

Not really. It’s still almost entirely funded by interested boosters who are worth 8/9/10 figures, not local businesses. CU is trying to get local car dealerships, local Taco Bell franchises, etc to give deals to players while TTU, tOSU, Texas, aTm, Georgia, Tennessee, Oregon, etc are just writing checks for nothing in return.

That's what I think the NCAA is going to address : legitimate NIL vs Pay4Play. Pay4Play is supposed to only come from the school under the House Settlement structure.

 

[cu3x]

Opps

 

[cu3x]

Opps. Again.

 

[hokiehead]

Opps

Opps. Again.

Say it once more and we'll know you really mean it

 

[Mike Vanderjagt]

That's what I think the NCAA is going to address : legitimate NIL vs Pay4Play. Pay4Play is supposed to only come from the school under the House Settlement structure.

It wont really work. Schools were already paying players before all of this, NIL stuff. The big money schools will not let anyone tie them down to "legitimate" NIL deals. They will just continue as before of hiding payments.

 

[skibum]

That's what I think the NCAA is going to address : legitimate NIL vs Pay4Play. Pay4Play is supposed to only come from the school under the House Settlement structure.

The problem is legally separating "legitimate" nil from illegitimate nil.

If there's a willing buyer (the booster) and a willing seller (the athlete), and there are multiple buyers bidding up the price I don't think any court in America will rule that the price paid isn't "market value."

That's where so much of this falls down: most of the rules won't survive court scrutiny. I know it's a legal settlement being made under the authority of a court, but this nil review board's decisions are going to be challenged in court, and they will lose.

The only truly legal way around it is collective bargaining, which is where I think we'll end up in the end. But, in true American style, we're gonna have to try everything else first.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The problem is legally separating "legitimate" nil from illegitimate nil.

If there's a willing buyer (the booster) and a willing seller (the athlete), and there are multiple buyers bidding up the price I don't think any court in America will rule that the price paid isn't "market value."

That's where so much of this falls down: most of the rules won't survive court scrutiny. I know it's a legal settlement being made under the authority of a court, but this nil review board's decisions are going to be challenged in court, and they will lose.

The only truly legal way around it is collective bargaining, which is where I think we'll end up in the end. But, in true American style, we're gonna have to try everything else first.

I’m trying to think of why this doesn’t happen with pro sports. Steve Balmer is accused of circumventing the salary cap and giving Kawhi Leonard a bogus endorsement deal, so that’s one example of it happening but is it all just agreed upon that owners won’t do that stuff?

 

[skibum]

I’m trying to think of why this doesn’t happen with pro sports. Steve Balmer is accused of circumventing the salary cap and giving Kawhi Leonard a bogus endorsement deal, so that’s one example of it happening but is it all just agreed upon that owners won’t do that stuff?

I think the balance in the no fun league ownership tipped overwhelmingly to the profit end of the ego/profit continuum a couple decades ago, and none of them want to upset that apple cart by pissing off the other owners.

In college, with the boosters, ego is still enough of a driver to have an outsized impact.

 

[Highlander]

I’m trying to think of why this doesn’t happen with pro sports. Steve Balmer is accused of circumventing the salary cap and giving Kawhi Leonard a bogus endorsement deal, so that’s one example of it happening but is it all just agreed upon that owners won’t do that stuff?

From what we have seen recently in pro sports, is the other owners can vote out a really bad apple. That’s not happening to OSU, Alabama, and Texas.

 

[Buff_nc]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I just think of OMD

If you leave, don't leave now
Please don't take my heart away
Promise me, just one more season
Then we'll go our separate ways

We've always had time on our side
Now it's fading fast
Every second, every moment
We've got to, we've gotta make it last

 

[Buffnik]

I’m trying to think of why this doesn’t happen with pro sports. Steve Balmer is accused of circumventing the salary cap and giving Kawhi Leonard a bogus endorsement deal, so that’s one example of it happening but is it all just agreed upon that owners won’t do that stuff?

You have to have a player's union that has the power to collectively bargain with the league (NCAA, as of today). That's how you can have enforcement and investigative powers with all parties to the agreement - players, schools, conferences and league - being bound by the terms, conditions and penalties.

 

[Bread]

I’m trying to think of why this doesn’t happen with pro sports. Steve Balmer is accused of circumventing the salary cap and giving Kawhi Leonard a bogus endorsement deal, so that’s one example of it happening but is it all just agreed upon that owners won’t do that stuff?

Because there is a governing body that will enforce true, painful penalties if the rules are not followed. I don't know anything about the Kawhi stuff but if you broke a rule and had a salary cap reduction penalty in the league, that would be a big issue. When the NCAA won't actually enforce any true punishments (see Michigan's "penalties"), there's no reason not to push the boundaries.

 

[slider]

It is way more likely Prime leaves on his own than CU firing him.

If Prime starts losing he leaves just to protect his reputation/image

 

[skibum]

When the NCAA can't actually enforce any true punishments (see Michigan's "penalties"), there's no reason not to push the boundaries.

FIFY. Forget whether they want to or not. They legally can't enforce a ton of this.

At least not without collective bargaining, and a player's union.

It's really the only path available under current law, but the last thing any profit driven organization wants is a union.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

It is way more likely Prime leaves on his own than CU firing him.

If Prime starts losing he leaves just to protect his reputation/image

CU would never fire prime and pay out that contract, nor should they. I agree with Les in that he will likely use health and faith as reasons to retire from coaching if they keep struggling and he doesn’t think he can right the ship, or his heart isn’t in it anymore.

 

[Trogdor]

That's what I think the NCAA is going to address : legitimate NIL vs Pay4Play. Pay4Play is supposed to only come from the school under the House Settlement structure.

It's what they *should* address but given they already completely bailed on defining and enforcing "NIL" in any way to *begin* with, I doubt they ever will.

 

[Trogdor]

The problem is legally separating "legitimate" nil from illegitimate nil.

If there's a willing buyer (the booster) and a willing seller (the athlete), and there are multiple buyers bidding up the price I don't think any court in America will rule that the price paid isn't "market value."

That's where so much of this falls down: most of the rules won't survive court scrutiny. I know it's a legal settlement being made under the authority of a court, but this nil review board's decisions are going to be challenged in court, and they will lose.

The only truly legal way around it is collective bargaining, which is where I think we'll end up in the end. But, in true American style, we're gonna have to try everything else first.

Additionally, and someone else who knows more can chime in here, what's the precedent that says you can't pay someone $2m a year and have them sign 5 hats? "Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it."