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Improvement

It is a simple fact that there are multiple factions within the Buff Galaxy who hold different views on the nebulous concept of Improvement.

There are grudges and trespasses that have occurred regarding the CU AD that continue to fester.

There are rifts inside this fan base that simply will not go away with a 2-10 season.

Each can rationalize the concept of improvement in your own way. It could be by Win-Loss records, facilities investments, comparative recruiting, stats specific to various phases of the game. Are fans being entertained? Even issues like uniforms, OOC scheduling, APR, off-field behavior (good & bad), or recycling have their role here.

Trying to use this message board as a vehicle to impose group think on the support for MacIntyre is pure folly.

If some are offended by emotional outbursts involving (poor) officiating, or find no progress in the 2-4 (0-3) record, then so be it.

It's on MacIntyre to win over skeptics and remove doubts by, well, winning.
 
Buffs are improved. It's visible to 95% (I think that's conservative) of people who have seen us play.

The Buffs have only faced 1 backup qb this year, that's because we knocked out the starter. That's evidence enough for me.
 
Skidmark said:
It is a simple fact that there are multiple factions within the Buff Galaxy who hold different views on the nebulous concept of Improvement.

There are grudges and trespasses that have occurred regarding the CU AD that continue to fester.

There are rifts inside this fan base that simply will not go away with a 2-10 season.

Each can rationalize the concept of improvement in your own way. It could be by Win-Loss records, facilities investments, comparative recruiting, stats specific to various phases of the game. Are fans being entertained? Even issues like uniforms, OOC scheduling, APR, off-field behavior (good & bad), or recycling have their role here.

Trying to use this message board as a vehicle to impose group think on the support for MacIntyre is pure folly.

If some are offended by emotional outbursts involving (poor) officiating, or find no progress in the 2-4 (0-3) record, then so be it.

It's on MacIntyre to win over skeptics and remove doubts by, well, winning.
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Well said. This is why I felt the need to defend buffedup a little bit. The dude was just expressing his opinion and everyone jumped all over him, and it got pretty ugly I'd say. I don't even agree with him. I think there has been improvement, but if all he wants to measure things by is wins and losses, well then by that metric we have not improved.

I think there's a lot to like and take away from this season. At the end of the day, we all want to see wins. Some have lowered their expectations so far, reasonably?, that winning conference games in year 2 isn't a requirement. We can go back and forth as to whether that's reasonable or not, but we're unlikely to change opinions on this. No need to take things personally.
 
They'll break through. Hopefully vs USC. Zona might beat up them a little while we're healing and practicing.
 
Eh, I'll bow to the mob mentality on this one. Mostly because I don't want the pitchfork and torch mob showing up at my door. Plus, with my limited football (and overall) IQ it is hard to sustain continued debate while still trying to remember how to tie my shoes in the morning.
 
buffedup said:
Eh, I'll bow to the mob mentality on this one. Mostly because I don't want the pitchfork and torch mob showing up at my door. Plus, with my limited football (and overall) IQ it is hard to sustain continued debate while still trying to remember how to tie my shoes in the morning.
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:thumbsup:
CLS_Peaked_Participant_purple3.jpg
 
What a great thread....some really good stuff on these seven pages.
 
buffedup said:
Eh, I'll bow to the mob mentality on this one. Mostly because I don't want the pitchfork and torch mob showing up at my door. Plus, with my limited football (and overall) IQ it is hard to sustain continued debate while still trying to remember how to tie my shoes in the morning.
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Heres the thing buffed up, your calculation is accurate, so yes you are right. And i dont fault you for defending your statistics. The problem is that win/loss results are a trailing indicator of the trajectory a team is on and not the best parameter to measure the current competitiveness of a team or their future results. Our w/l is arguably unchanged right now compared to the last couple of years, but if you watch the team and look at how they are playing it is obvious that we are incredibly more competitive than 1-2 years ago. People are excited about this because increasing competitiveness is a necessary prerequisit before an increase in the wins result. Some people call this improvement.

Conversely, look at Michigan, do you think they were fine last year and suddenly started having problems this year which is causing more losses, or have they been falling apart for a few seasons and the w/l record is just now starting to reflect that trend?

If you want to stand by your enterpretation of your data, that's fine, i just hope you play the stock market too. You're the kind of guy that waits for a stock to be a proven performer and buys high and I can make a lot of money off you.
 
Wait! "...mildly amusing"...."physics degree" (didn't realize they gave degrees involving medicines that make you sh*t).....what is going on here other than a simple refusal to acknowledge there is more than one way to measure improvement?

SEC mentality aside, the progress of this time is noticeable and denying it because of W/L record is short-sighted, but slightly excusable if that is your only reason for dissatisfaction.

But while you're trying to tie your shoes BU," compartmentalize" (pretend you're Bill Clinton) and explain what you are seeing on the field this season, irrespective of W's and L's.
 
SJBuff said:
Heres the thing buffed up, your calculation is accurate, so yes you are right. And i dont fault you for defending your statistics. The problem is that win/loss results are a trailing indicator of the trajectory a team is on and not the best parameter to measure the current competitiveness of a team or their future results. Our w/l is arguably unchanged right now compared to the last couple of years, but if you watch the team and look at how they are playing it is obvious that we are incredibly more competitive than 1-2 years ago. People are excited about this because increasing competitiveness is a necessary prerequisit before an increase in the wins result. Some people call this improvement.

Conversely, look at Michigan, do you think they were fine last year and suddenly started having problems this year which is causing more losses, or have they been falling apart for a few seasons and the w/l record is just now starting to reflect that trend?

If you want to stand by your enterpretation of your data, that's fine, i just hope you play the stock market too. You're the kind of guy that waits for a stock to be a proven performer and buys high and I can make a lot of money off you.
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Good stuff SJ. I certainly won't argue that the team is far more competitive. My dissatisfaction stems from having lost games that should have been won (primarily CSU and Cal). As I stated in another post, my biggest concern was that these games were critical in forwarding the momentum that MM must have in order to advance in recruiting and overall (players, fans, national perception) program growth. The losses may not be program killers by any stretch of the imagination, but they certainly don't help the fragile growth of this program. I think you could call my obstinance a frustration that we seem to be so close, and it is killing me that we have lost these opportunities to really gain ground. That in a nutshell is my "agenda".

With respect to the stock market, I am very familiar with, and typically adhere to modern portfolio theory and agree with the philosophy to buy when most are scared of the market and sell when people are confident in the market.
 
buffedup said:
With respect to the stock market, I am very familiar with, and typically adhere to modern portfolio theory and agree with the philosophy to buy when most are scared of the market and sell when people are confident in the market.
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Glad to hear. So tell us, oh wise one, what you are doing with your portfolio now in light of last week's route?
 
Idot Buff said:
Glad to hear. So tell us, oh wise one, what you are doing with your portfolio now in light of last week's route?
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Nothing. I don't do day trading, and have long term savings goals that aren't really affected by short term volatility. I'm a relatively conservative investor.
 
I will agree with buffed up that the CSU, Cal and OSU losses hurt. And think we should have won at least two of those, if not all three. All three, issues with having 2 yards (or less) and goal, then turning the ball over on downs just killed what should have been a win. I understand that a team SHOULD be able to get that yard. I also know the coaches SHOULD know the strengths of the team, and not do something that isn't a strength 4 times in a row. And if they do, maybe they shouldn't do it again in another close game.

The CSU game turned on us turning the ball over like that. IMO, we lost both the Cal and OSU game by trying to be a power running team when we are not yet. I am happy with our OC for the most part, but it sure seems like we are throwing away games trying to establish something, rather than using our strength. Think about if CU was 5-1 instead of 2-4 right now. Man.. sickening.

I cannot look at CSU and Cal as 'we beat them last year and lost to them this year' as markers as to being worse, since I can see CSU has made huge strides. Strides I hope CU makes next year. And still, we gave them that game on turned over balls (and DL being exposed on the run game). Cal, well, look at the record last year, we had them at home, this year, they are much improved (both on O, and without the huge amount of injuries they had last fall the D is better, as was expected) and then we had them on the road. And kept up. I guess I can go with 'we need to punch this in' in the 2nd OT, but hell, if that was the attitude, they should have thrown it to Spruce for two at the end of regulation.

Regardless, two years ago we had a win gift wrapped by WSU to keep us from going Ofer. Last year we had a few bounces go our way in the CSU game (plus PRich) and two FCS wins. This year, we are not getting blown out. We are being competitive. If only measuring wins, then buffedup is right, we have regressed. I am hopeful that the team takes another step forward and beats one or two teams still this season. We will see what happens.
 
FlatironsBuff said:
You are one stupid muther****er. The only place we have regressed is win loss column, and that's only because we were able to replace Fresno State with the div 2 team last year. Nobody can watch this team and say we are worse on the field of play.

If anyone has ever needed a crayon font, it is you.
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i much prefer this post, bitch.
 
The crazy thing about this thread is that we are all trying to get to the same point eventually.

I see this year as a huge step forward. We are competing in games, last year outside of a CSU team that was trying to figure out a new coach, a Cal team that was in total chaos and would have lost to almost anyone, and two FCS teams that weren't even outstanding for their own division we mostly got pounded on. We were way better than the year before in that most of the poundings happened in the third quarter instead of the first but either way the games were over well before the clock said so.

This year we haven't had a lot of time in our games when we didn't look like we belonged in the game. You can argue about should have been wins with officials calls and with the lousy performance by the DEs against CSU but there is no arguement that we are a much better team on an every play basis this year.

buffedup is right in that the record is not as good. CSU is a much better team this year than last and their coach had a year to get them used to his system. Somehow Sonny Dykes got Cal back in focus and even after losing a heartbreaker the week before they gave us a solid effort and they still have the talent to beat people. On the other hand we were in those games. We also were in the games against Oregon State who had us beat at halftime last year and against ASU who ran us off the field last year.

We are a way better team this year, even with the worse record. At the same time eventually it has to translate. If we are having this same conversation next season without more wins to show for it then we have a problem. I'm fine with the progress we have made this year but eventually it has to translate to wins. I think the argument is simply about when those wins need to start showing up.
 
buffedup said:
Eh, I'll bow to the mob mentality on this one. Mostly because I don't want the pitchfork and torch mob showing up at my door. Plus, with my limited football (and overall) IQ it is hard to sustain continued debate while still trying to remember how to tie my shoes in the morning.
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That's why I stick with slip-ons.
 
buffedup said:
I used the word apparently, but let me be clear. Games that were won last year, were lost this year, and the team has a worse record at the same point in the season. That is regression.
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This has got to be a joke. You really think last years team that got smoked by almost every team was better because they beat a couple FCS teams? Let me remind you ASU had their second string in last year BEFORE halftime. This year we take them to the wire and outplayed them in every aspect. We are a top 40 offensive team in NCAA. Last year we were not even in top 100. AND against better competition this year. By any objective measure this team is leaps and bounds ahead of last year. Yes record doesn't always reflect that but anyone who watches this team should see a profound difference between last year and this year.
 
Ralphandler1 said:
This has got to be a joke. You really think last years team that got smoked by almost every team was better because they beat a couple FCS teams? Let me remind you ASU had their second string in last year BEFORE halftime. This year we take them to the wire and outplayed them in every aspect. We are a top 40 offensive team in NCAA. Last year we were not even in top 100. AND against better competition this year. By any objective measure this team is leaps and bounds ahead of last year. Yes record doesn't always reflect that but anyone who watches this team should see a profound difference between last year and this year.
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Well said.
 
Can it remove stains left by years of dumped lunch pails and circles left in coffee tables from sweaty water bottles?
 
The OFFENSE has improved and the games have been closer. How long we going to hang a hat on that? CU needs to get 6 wins next year and a bowl game, the fane base is dwindling as we speak. WIN, stop with excuses and just win. I like the direction other than our out of touch DC.
 
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