TheEvilBeak
Member
Sorry Boss, that one is over my head. Explain that one to me. Fantasy world or something?
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Is it time yet to worry about recruiting rankings?
- Thread starter utebuff
- Start date
Sorry Boss, that one is over my head. Explain that one to me. Fantasy world or something?
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
There's two sides to every coin. That's my point i guess. For every top rated recruiting class doing well, i can show you one that isn't doing to hot right now.
Rankings are for the fans. That's how these sites get their money. Stars and Rankings. If Crabtree and Allen Wallace(superprep) are vaunted football minds, then why aren't they in the coaching business?
$$$$$
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Did you just call me Boss?:huh::lol:
TheEvilBeak
Member
Oh jeez, not the old "worthless state" stuff. I expect a little better. I guess Pennsylvanians cling to guns and religion like you cling to "worthless state and core identity"
You know someone is losing when they result to insults.
Say, you're not a Netbuffer are you? No insult intended.
TheEvilBeak
Member
You are a Moderator, correct? That pretty much makes you a boss.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
The unicorn thing is a joke I've heard around here. Hawk sealed the deal by giving Darrell a Unicorn to ride around Boulder. He couldn't pass it up.:smile2:
Gotcha. I would tend to think the so-called guru's do have some idea of what they are talking about, but there is no doubt big money is involved.
Recruiting for a particular system is a part of the whole picture too. EX: Leach and his Red Raiders - not many five stars there
BTW when I hit the index you never show up. Is this really you or your ghost haunting the board tonight
Recruiting for a particular system is a part of the whole picture too. EX: Leach and his Red Raiders - not many five stars there
BTW when I hit the index you never show up. Is this really you or your ghost haunting the board tonight
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
I'm invisible. :smile2:
TheEvilBeak
Member
BTW when I hit the index you never show up. Is this really you or your ghost haunting the board tonight [/QUOTE]
Who are you asking this about? The old Beakster or someone else? And who is the guy in the picture?
[/QUOTE]Who are you asking this about? The old Beakster or someone else? And who is the guy in the picture?
77buff
Well-Known Member
Hawkins had a very good recruiting class last year. I think you will see alot of those players in that class stepping up in years to come. He's got to do that every year, that's the hard part, putting together very good classes every year. The other alternative is to go the JC route ala Bill "The Prick" Snyder. Hawkins has absolutely nothing to bitch about. CU fans have been very patient. He's making $1 million a year, and hasn't had a winning season yet. If he was at programs like Auburn, Washington or Tennessee, he would be history.
CUwhit21
Club Member
Sure, but what alarms me is we weren't going after alot of these players months ago. We tried to go after higher ranked recruits, but have practically struck out. If guys like Orms and Deji were our #1 options, then I wouldn't worry about it. I'd just figure our coaches got in on another Rodney Stewart type player that for some reason or another was overlooked by other schools.
But, here we go moving onto our plan B type guys, as well as starting to look for diamonds in the rough or breakout seniors. It is the result of mediocre results on the field. You can spin it anyway you want to, but our team will have major holes next season if we don't find some immediate help at key positions (WR, DT, DE). Lets all hope that we can convince Diante to come to CU, find a way to get Simmons to sign and qualify and get Simas eligible. If not, we can expect plenty of Ryan Maxwell and other walk-on WRs next season.
Now, if we end up picking up a few solid WRs and a few solid DTs/DEs, then we should be fine for next season. That will allow Hawkins a perfect chance to get to 7,8,9 wins and get recruiting to pick back up. But, I think it is much more the exception then the norm for highly ranked recruiting classes to not translate into wins.
buffsyko
Club Member
No need to panic, hawk and staff can recruit,they proved it last year.
You can panic when it's january 15th and we have 12 recruits and we have 2 dl.
The late recruiting worked last year but,this year it seems there are not as many " ON PAPER" 4* players left.
Like we said with barnett, next year CU must have a winning season and show marked improvement, it's a big year for cu,especially for recruiting to show these kids CU IS improving and can get to where hawk and fans want them.
You can panic when it's january 15th and we have 12 recruits and we have 2 dl.
The late recruiting worked last year but,this year it seems there are not as many " ON PAPER" 4* players left.
Like we said with barnett, next year CU must have a winning season and show marked improvement, it's a big year for cu,especially for recruiting to show these kids CU IS improving and can get to where hawk and fans want them.
SkiTownUSA
Administrator
SOUND THE F***ING ALARMS!!!!!
j/k
buffsyko
Club Member
Most fans do the same thing every year, when your class is in the top 25 rankings matter. When your class is 30-40, the rankings don't matter and the recruiting geeks and sites know nothing.
Notre dame and nebraska have been proof rankings don't matter.
USC,Texas,florida,ohio state etc.. prove they do.
All I can say is, I hope one of our recruiting classes ends this streak of losing 5 or more games each season since 2002.
Notre dame and nebraska have been proof rankings don't matter.
USC,Texas,florida,ohio state etc.. prove they do.
All I can say is, I hope one of our recruiting classes ends this streak of losing 5 or more games each season since 2002.
Pretty much. I will say that the staff needs to pull in some impact players to close out this class (i.e, beating out some programs for top guys) for it to be a success.
I tend to believe that you can trust the coaches to find 3-4 sleepers in a given class, but beyond that, it takes a big leap of faith for me. I find it difficult to believe that a class can have 7-8 "sleepers" or more because you're asking me to believe our coaches know more than every other coaching staff out there in the entire country. JMO.
BlackNGold
Club Member
So 2 4 star players and a solid 3 star had no effect on CU's recruiting rankings?
Without those 3 players CU drops out of the top 25 IMHO so it did affect recruiting. Mohler was a starter most of the year.
I don't believe we know yet if Hawkins is a great recruiter or not. I understand that recruiting rankings are not a totally quantitative measure but it is a metric. Here is my perspective.
Barnett was a good recruiter in spite of what some may say. He had several highly ranked classes...the 2000 class was a top 10 class, 2002 was ranked 10th by rivals and 2003 was ranked 19th...the wheels did come off after the scandal hit the news big time.
Hawkins first class was ranked 28th and his second class was ranked 15th(I don't really count the 2006 class against Hawkins). Not bad but you have to do it consistently year in and year out. I don't see CU being in the Top 25 this year...it is going to be more like 35 to 40 unless there are some real surprises.
So without those 3 pickups from the Nebraska coaching change - I don't see Hawkins as being a top 25 recruiter based upon what I see at this point in time.
buffsyko
Club Member
Agree,having 10 "sleepers" in a class would make you wonder what these other coaches missed.
It's DEC 9th, as you have stated before,let's see how things are goin by the end of this month. I think the dead period is coming up correct?
If you look at the guys from Hawks first class that were actually his kids, they were 3 star guys but they've turned out pretty good. If you look at the two star guys from last year, Stewart, Mahnke and Ewing, I'd say those guys can play. How many guys has Hawk brought in that simply couldn't do it? Not many, even though a few have been disappointing.
I'm sure Hawk is still working on guys like Jackson, Wheaton, Greene, McNeal, etc., but I'm okay with this class not being as good as the last two. Hawk isn't Barnett, (negatively recruiting his own program, going after guys who aren't Division I players, etc.) and if we have any luck at all next year Hawk will be in on plenty of top talent for 2010.
I'm sure Hawk is still working on guys like Jackson, Wheaton, Greene, McNeal, etc., but I'm okay with this class not being as good as the last two. Hawk isn't Barnett, (negatively recruiting his own program, going after guys who aren't Division I players, etc.) and if we have any luck at all next year Hawk will be in on plenty of top talent for 2010.
It is coming up in the next couple weeks. The coaches really need to lock up some quality players for this class and get a jumpstart on next year's class. I'm hoping we'll see some more offers to juniors come down the pipe here really soon. We need to be getting in on some of these guys in Texas and Cali early on before its too late.
77buff
Well-Known Member
Notre Dame and Nebraska are not proof rankings don't matter. It's proof you can have good players and still lose because your coaches can't coach. On the other hand , you can have a good coach like Mangino, and win with less talent. The "Fat Man" is the best coach in the Big 12.
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BlackNGold
Club Member
Mangino certainly does more with less. If I were him I would hire a lights out recruiter.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
I was referring to the coaching change, not the rankings.
utebuff
Member
I agree with the Mangino-love. I believe he is the best coach in the B12.
For his health, as well as his team..he needs an ace recruiter..and a gastric bypass. The body is not made to survive long the stress placed upon it by that weight.......a tragedy may well happen someday on live TV on the Kansas sideline.
For his health, as well as his team..he needs an ace recruiter..and a gastric bypass. The body is not made to survive long the stress placed upon it by that weight.......a tragedy may well happen someday on live TV on the Kansas sideline.
BuckinFuffs
Active Member
wow... this is the most bizzare set of responses to a reasonable question I have seen in a while.
I don't think its time to worry about recruiting rankings, but then again I don't ever worry about recruiting rankings.
I think you can attribute a lot of the rankings to two items:
- schools with large bases of paying fans seem to get players whose value increases when they sign with that school (nebraska because all the gomers pay to have someone blow smoke up their @$$).
- success follows success. successful programs have successful recruiting classes and its hard to break into that club. we didn't do well this year and I think recruiting will suffer. I think Hawk will get it done, but its off track right now
Sit tight. Read a few books over the break. Get your finances lined up. Come back to recruiting in late January when we have better information. Watching it now will make you say and do stupid sh!t.
I don't think its time to worry about recruiting rankings, but then again I don't ever worry about recruiting rankings.
I think you can attribute a lot of the rankings to two items:
- schools with large bases of paying fans seem to get players whose value increases when they sign with that school (nebraska because all the gomers pay to have someone blow smoke up their @$$).
- success follows success. successful programs have successful recruiting classes and its hard to break into that club. we didn't do well this year and I think recruiting will suffer. I think Hawk will get it done, but its off track right now
Sit tight. Read a few books over the break. Get your finances lined up. Come back to recruiting in late January when we have better information. Watching it now will make you say and do stupid sh!t.
snakeyman
Snake Charmer
Just thinking - pretty amazing how some kids rise to the challenge and those who kind of wilt under the "me" complex. Suppose this 3 star guy took advantage of his opportunity?:
http://colorado.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=22880
http://colorado.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=22880
Recruiting Services don't scout and rank these kids, they simply assess who is recruiting them and assign the stars that way. Kid XYZ is getting offered by Florida, Alabama and Georgia, should we assign him 4 or 5 stars? Never saw him, lives in the backwaters near the everglades. Received some grainy film on him, aw heck, he's a 5-star.
Got another guy here that is being recruited by Tulsa, Houston and Rice. He's a 2 star. Oh wait, NU just offered him, he's a 4-star! Those Husker fans sure like to pay those subscriptions! Keep 'em happy!
So, the previous points are - take it with a grain of salt. UT is going to have their class filled with their 20-some pledges out of the huge mass of D-1 kids playing their senior year in Texas High Schools early. Big advantage. CU has maybe 5-10 D-1 kids per year on average. Big Disadvantage.
Last year was an aberration. We got a Nephew with 5 stars. We got Callahan's 3 gifts after the implosion in Lincoln. We had a National Recruit LB in Colorado want to stay. We had Katoa want to follow in Dizon's Pacific Islander LB footsteps under Cabral. And we also had a team that showed vast improvement on the field and went to a bowl game.
My take on 2009's recruiting is that we are after the same sort of kids against the same competition (Oregon, ASU, UCLA...). We don't have any Nephews. We haven't had the benefit of any shaky coaching situations (UW didn't leave any nuggets behind), and we didn't show the on-field improvement this year. So, I think we are reverting a bit to plan B, this year.
Let's look at plan B for a moment. Plan B is where you don't get USC's leftovers, but you got to find some other nuggets that Oregon and Cal may have missed. This is the recruiting program at Boise State that has had them in the top-15 for a good part of this decade.
Hawkins came here because he proved that even though they could win a lot of WAC games, they still couldn't go after the kids one-step up from there. Yet, they have managed to get it done at Boise State.
CU isn't Boise. IF we win, we can compete with kids from just about anywhere, because Boulder isn't Boise, and the Big 12 isn't the WAC. That would be Plan A.
Realistically, it seems that we are pushing plan A this year, and not winning a lot of those battles. We've also got a plan B. We will probably end up somewhere in between. We won't have as highly a rated class this year. I"m ok with that. Get some good players like Stewart, Mahnke, Hansen, and Cunningham (overachievers evidently) and that will be good for THIS year.
Go 8-4 and get this thing going on the field next year, and the recruiting jumps up another level. Go 10-2 the year after and we are on our way.
Got another guy here that is being recruited by Tulsa, Houston and Rice. He's a 2 star. Oh wait, NU just offered him, he's a 4-star! Those Husker fans sure like to pay those subscriptions! Keep 'em happy!
So, the previous points are - take it with a grain of salt. UT is going to have their class filled with their 20-some pledges out of the huge mass of D-1 kids playing their senior year in Texas High Schools early. Big advantage. CU has maybe 5-10 D-1 kids per year on average. Big Disadvantage.
Last year was an aberration. We got a Nephew with 5 stars. We got Callahan's 3 gifts after the implosion in Lincoln. We had a National Recruit LB in Colorado want to stay. We had Katoa want to follow in Dizon's Pacific Islander LB footsteps under Cabral. And we also had a team that showed vast improvement on the field and went to a bowl game.
My take on 2009's recruiting is that we are after the same sort of kids against the same competition (Oregon, ASU, UCLA...). We don't have any Nephews. We haven't had the benefit of any shaky coaching situations (UW didn't leave any nuggets behind), and we didn't show the on-field improvement this year. So, I think we are reverting a bit to plan B, this year.
Let's look at plan B for a moment. Plan B is where you don't get USC's leftovers, but you got to find some other nuggets that Oregon and Cal may have missed. This is the recruiting program at Boise State that has had them in the top-15 for a good part of this decade.
Hawkins came here because he proved that even though they could win a lot of WAC games, they still couldn't go after the kids one-step up from there. Yet, they have managed to get it done at Boise State.
CU isn't Boise. IF we win, we can compete with kids from just about anywhere, because Boulder isn't Boise, and the Big 12 isn't the WAC. That would be Plan A.
Realistically, it seems that we are pushing plan A this year, and not winning a lot of those battles. We've also got a plan B. We will probably end up somewhere in between. We won't have as highly a rated class this year. I"m ok with that. Get some good players like Stewart, Mahnke, Hansen, and Cunningham (overachievers evidently) and that will be good for THIS year.
Go 8-4 and get this thing going on the field next year, and the recruiting jumps up another level. Go 10-2 the year after and we are on our way.
BlackNGold
Club Member
If we are going after Oregon and Cals left overs we are in trouble. Boise may dominate in the WAC but how do you think they would do in the Big 12? I don't think that is a good model to use for success.
The Guest
Guest
I've posted this before, I'll do it again.
We all know Stoops is a good recruiter, but Hawk went head-to-head with him last year on three players and got two of them. We lost Landry Jones, but got Major and Katoa (both of whom were OU priorities). Maybe we were fortunate that Major was a homer, but Hawk still exploited our strengths in his eyes. Maybe it doesn't hurt that Katoa and Coach Cabral share island lineage, but Venebles (sp?) is no slouch as a LB coach.
Even if there is a drop-off in this class, I suspect that we'll see some team progression in 09 and 10 and recruiting will fall back into place.