Walter White
Member
What signs are you seeing now that would make you believe that?
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It's going to get worse before it gets better.
- Thread starter sackman
- Start date
You don't think that a coaching staff that is on the road to recruiting better, changing the losing attitude, and should be significantly better at developing and using talent than we have had isn't a step in the right direction.
If you don't believe than this probably isn't a productive place for you to be unless you are a troll, in which case it is definately not a productive place for you to be.
Walter White
Member
Take it easy and don't get emotional. That's an honest question.
There is no doubt that JE ane EB have the right attitude. That said, results are results and talk is talk. I don't see the results on the field or in recruiting yet. That doesn't mean the results are not going to come in the future, but it is what it is. What can you point to other than JE's good attitude and old school style of accountability?
2 maybe 3 legitimate DT commits, how many legit DT commits did we have the who Hawkins era, most of our DTs were converted from other positions, the best DT commits other than Cunningham never got in (Nuckels)
Wood already on campus and Dillon committed, arguably the two best QB prospects we have had in over a decade.
3 legit WR prospects in the same year
A recommitment to recruiting Texas that is showing results. Kids like the Irwin brothers
I could go on but this is real tangible evidence that recruiting is taking a step up. They still have to sign them and then have them prove it on the field but even with an abreviated recruiting class it appears that a number of the freshman are going to be quality players, better than their recruiting rankings would indicate, if this continues to hold true as we recruit higher ranked players things can only get better.
Another big issue is the response of the team. Due to a lack of talent left over from the Hawkins era, a ridiculous amount of injuries, and a lack of upperclass leadership the Buffs have been losing and losing big. Unlike earlier years even when getting blown out I have seen very little quit in this team, over the past few years when we got down by a couple of TDs the team frequently just gave up making a bad loss worse. With this years team I have seen them keep on trying and playing with some pride even when the game is out of question.
I could mention some other things as well but even with the weekly kicks in gut we are getting I see real, objective progress being made. We have a long way to go but I see us getting better on a steady basis. It will take time but keep the momentum going and eventually we will be there.
Walter White
Member
The problem is that it’s a zero sum game. To move up means that some other school needs to move down. CU has recruits, but so does everyone else. Even the worst BCS conference teams have lots of 3* recruits.
In which area(s) is CU outperforming its peers? Recruiting? Coaching? Facilities? Money?
JE has never been a coordinator at any level. EB has never been a coordinator at any level. Who knows what will happen in the future, but that’s not typically a formula for success.
Typically, the leading indicators of future success are in the recruiting battles. I would define success as wining battles against your peers. The Dillion kid is a nice win and maybe one or two others, but that’s it. Landing a guy with offers from Wyoming and Louisiana Lafayette is not a win.
When I see CU winning battles for top in-state kids, then that will be something you can really hang your hat on. Until then, it’s just blind faith and talk. Right now, there is as much evidence for CU to continue to bounce along the bottom vs. overtaking other P12 schools.
Fortunately, if things fall right for CU then I could see the Buffs overtaking Utah, WSU, Oregon State and maybe Arizona. I don’t think any of those schools have any fundamental natural advantages on CU at this point. If CU can somehow climb to the top of that pack in wins and losses then CU could get a foothold to compete at the next tier of the conference. Get out of the cellar and then build on that inertia to generate the buzz that lands the in state talent. If that happens then things can spiral up, just as they spiraled down. If CU can lock down Colorado high schools then good things will likely follow, but you need a cataylst to get off the bottom.
In which area(s) is CU outperforming its peers? Recruiting? Coaching? Facilities? Money?
JE has never been a coordinator at any level. EB has never been a coordinator at any level. Who knows what will happen in the future, but that’s not typically a formula for success.
Typically, the leading indicators of future success are in the recruiting battles. I would define success as wining battles against your peers. The Dillion kid is a nice win and maybe one or two others, but that’s it. Landing a guy with offers from Wyoming and Louisiana Lafayette is not a win.
When I see CU winning battles for top in-state kids, then that will be something you can really hang your hat on. Until then, it’s just blind faith and talk. Right now, there is as much evidence for CU to continue to bounce along the bottom vs. overtaking other P12 schools.
Fortunately, if things fall right for CU then I could see the Buffs overtaking Utah, WSU, Oregon State and maybe Arizona. I don’t think any of those schools have any fundamental natural advantages on CU at this point. If CU can somehow climb to the top of that pack in wins and losses then CU could get a foothold to compete at the next tier of the conference. Get out of the cellar and then build on that inertia to generate the buzz that lands the in state talent. If that happens then things can spiral up, just as they spiraled down. If CU can lock down Colorado high schools then good things will likely follow, but you need a cataylst to get off the bottom.
jpbuff
Well-Known Member
Can someone explain why it is so important to lock down the borders here. I took a quick look back at the past 4 years of Colorado recruits. Other than this year we have done a decent job of getting the top recruits (Major, Miller, Cunningham, Kasa, Givens, and others). I wouldn't say they have made a huge difference in our team right now. Yes this year I would say there seems to be a good crop of o-lineman. The ones that have left and gone out of state. I don't see them making huge impacts on the teams they went to.
Would I like the local kids to stay, sure. But I only want them if they can contribute, not just because they are from here. I want the best players we can get here. I don't care if they are from timbuckto.
Would I like the local kids to stay, sure. But I only want them if they can contribute, not just because they are from here. I want the best players we can get here. I don't care if they are from timbuckto.
I think all of us here feel the same way. What I wondered aloud when the PTB kept DII was whether CU would lose the casual fan. With 22-25,000 season ticket holders, CU HAS to have the casual fan come to fill the stadium. Some fans, including me, feel like their goodwill has been abused. I remember the DII fraud saying before the CSU game in '06 "I want to win now" along with the MNC blather that moron spouted at first. I remember that attitude morphing into a "we want to be competitive in the B12", together with reports about GPA's and power clean numbers. The Wazzu game, tickets, parking, food, souvenirs set me back nearly $500 to take the family. Now some folks may continue to fund that, but I fear you will see the home crowds begin to decline in a big way if something doesn't happen really soon. I hope Embo and staff show some real improvement next year, because if they don't I am not sure how much casual fan fuel there is left in the tank. Others have said it, but this process is getting started a year too late thanks to a shortsighted admin. JMO.
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It is all a process, nobody expects a BCS bowl in two years.
If (when) CU passes up the schools you list plus winning some OOC games you have a school that is contending for a lower tier bowl game. Coming from zero this means you have momentum and you start getting more kids to listen to you, build on that and move up to middle tier bowls and contending against the top schools in the conference opening more doors.
I understand your post but not only are you looking at a glass half empty, you are looking at just a few drops in the bottom of a dirty glass. I don't have any illusions about this program jumping up in a couple of years to being a top 10 program. I am realistically looking for steady improvement that will eventually put us in the upper end. If you can't do that then you should probably find another team to support.
We may disagree but I see Embree and Co. as the catalyst you mention. The energy, the desire to win, the discipline are elements that have been missing and a big part of why we are in the hole we are in. No guarantees but I'm betting on the staff we have moving us to where we want to be. It will take time though. This isn't a quick fix situation.
best I have read in a while and nicely put :thumbsup:
We can all be couch coaches and pretend we know if Embree is making the right decisions or not, but you can't really hold him accountable or fully judge him for another couple years. I think he's done a great job of learning on the spot and I get the impression he is always thinking big picture and the future...
Walter White
Member
Pure speculation.
wablty
Well-Known Member
In the future, I (an ASU fan) expect Colorado to become the sort of program that will contend for division titles every few years, provided USC doesn't start to roll again.
Right now ASU is the only program in the South that seems to have its act together, but that leaves a bit of a vacuum. Arizona is looking for a new coach. UCLA will be soon I suspect. Utah is going to need to load up their depth chart yet, though they've got a pretty good coaching staff. USC is still full of mutants, but they haven't hit the scholarship crunch yet. That's going to come on hard over the next few seasons, so there's a bit of a window.
ASU is in good shape. They should be good again next year, but nobody else in the division is showing anything, which can't hold since the wealth of the talent comes from the South. The faster your team gets it together, the quicker they can stake their claim in what is currently a bit of a free for all.
Right now ASU is the only program in the South that seems to have its act together, but that leaves a bit of a vacuum. Arizona is looking for a new coach. UCLA will be soon I suspect. Utah is going to need to load up their depth chart yet, though they've got a pretty good coaching staff. USC is still full of mutants, but they haven't hit the scholarship crunch yet. That's going to come on hard over the next few seasons, so there's a bit of a window.
ASU is in good shape. They should be good again next year, but nobody else in the division is showing anything, which can't hold since the wealth of the talent comes from the South. The faster your team gets it together, the quicker they can stake their claim in what is currently a bit of a free for all.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Do you think Erickson is grooming anyone on the staff to take over when he leaves, or do you think you guys will go in a completely new direction?
wablty
Well-Known Member
No obvious heir apparent. Mazzone and Bray are both proving to be pretty good coordinators and one or the other may get a look at the job after Erickson leaves, but both really seem like career coordinators. There isn't an obvious young gun ala Chip Kelly or Bret Bielama. It's probably more likely ASU will try to get the program into a good situation and then go outside and see who is available. It's an attractive job, especially if Erickson can put together 3 or 4 good years in a row.
i'm in for the rest of the home games, and for the asu game in tempe.
**** these uppity pac 12 bastards who think they own the buffalo...
**** these uppity pac 12 bastards who think they own the buffalo...