It's like déjà vu all over again, one more time, but this time with feeling

[Duff Man]

The OP was snatched out of a dialog misplaced in the Coleman commit thread.
There were posts above this bitching about stealing CSU guys.
I noted that CSU has had similar number of NFL guys despite rankings being far below.

My only point is that none of our 5.7RR recruits achieved as expected at CU.
We aren't recruiting vs UCLA we are recruiting against bottom BCS programs because that is what we are.

And all I would say: why would we want to be emulating the CSU program? They have been as bad as us over the last several years. They have lost a lot of games in worse conferences with their recruiting. We should be recruiting different players (read: better) than them outside of rare instances. Always.

I know you are searching for positives, but let's try to be real too.

 

[MtnBuff]

And all I would say: why would we want to be emulating the CSU program? They have been as bad as us over the last several years. They have lost a lot of games in worse conferences with their recruiting. We should be recruiting different players (read: better) than them outside of rare instances. Always.

I know you are searching for positives, but let's try to be real too.

Agree completely that if we are consistently recruiting against CSU we have already lost. They are recruiting to compete in the MWC (and not doing a very good job of it by the results posted) instead of the PAC.

At the same time if they have a particular player or two each year in their sights who happens to have a good potential to contribute at the PAC level and is better than the guy we would fill the spot with I have no problem.

 

[buffaholic]

We don't want to emulate CSU. But that is not to say that we would not improve having their best of their best every year. And the same from other MWC schools.

You got to start somewhere.

There is ZERO correlation with CU's player rankings (as individuals) and what they ended up contributing here.
There is also lots of very good players at places like Nevada and SJSU.

Right now, I expect us to recruit like a bottom BCS dweller, which is better than CSU.
.
That does not mean we can't take a CSU commit and have him be an upgrade. There's a lot of potential with Coleman

 

[Duff Man]

I guess the main disagreement between you and I is where the line is drawn. It appears you have conceded we cannot beat out even marginal BCS conference teams for recruits.

It has to get better from here. At least I hope so.

 

[MtnBuff]

I guess the main disagreement between you and I is where the line is drawn. It appears you have conceded we cannot beat out even marginal BCS conference teams for recruits.

I think we have to beat out other BCS schools for recruits, but we aren't going to fill our entire class with them. We also have to get some guys who perform better than the bottom of our competitors classes which means taking some chances on developmental or overlooked guys. Coleman is an example of that.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I think we have to beat out other BCS schools for recruits, but we aren't going to fill our entire class with them. We also have to get some guys who perform better than the bottom of our competitors classes which means taking some chances on developmental or overlooked guys. Coleman is an example of that.

So who in this class are we beating our BCS schools for recruits?

I don't think people are upset at Coleman in particular. He's a project that has some potential, but tons of red flags. The problem is this entire class is filled with projects with red flags.

 

[lawdogg]

So who in this class are we beating our BCS schools for recruits?

I don't think people are upset at Coleman in particular. He's a project that has some potential, but tons of red flags. The problem is this entire class is filled with projects with red flags.

Little bit of hyperbole here, WR. Guys like Ross, Gilbert, Graham and Frazier all had at least one other BCS offer. Sefo just had the offer from us, but he's a top 30 player at his position. The issue appears to be that the guys Big Mac has brought in to this point (excluding Reid), lack BCS offers. It remains to be seen if this is what we can expect of this coaching staff on the recruiting front going forward. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[o_robbie]

I guess the main disagreement between you and I is where the line is drawn. It appears you have conceded we cannot beat out even marginal BCS conference teams for recruits.

It has to get better from here. At least I hope so.

I agree. CU should be able to beat out the Fresno's and Houston's for 3 star players along with getting at least the 10th best RB out of Cali every year. If we can't convince a kid to be the top recruit at his position to come to our school vs. the 3rd best recruit at a position for UCLA/Stanford/etc.... we are destined for a lot of 6 and 6 seasons.

 

[o_robbie]

Little bit of hyperbole here, WR. Guys like Ross, Gilbert, Graham and Frazier all had at least one other BCS offer. Sefo just had the offer from us, but he's a top 30 player at his position. The issue appears to be that the guys Big Mac has brought in to this point (excluding Reid), lack BCS offers. It remains to be seen if this is what we can expect of this coaching staff on the recruiting front going forward. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think if Sefo reopened up he would have a pile of BCS offers. Ross appears to have garnered some interest. I haven't followed Reid much did he have any other options besides PWO at USC from Pac programs. I do think we did pretty well with our OL and I have gone on record saying I think we found some decent guards. It sounds like Coleman and Lindsay would have had more offers if not for the injuries.

With that said we appear to be in the rough with most of our recruits hoping we find diamonds.

 

[MtnBuff]

So who in this class are we beating our BCS schools for recruits?

I don't think people are upset at Coleman in particular. He's a project that has some potential, but tons of red flags. The problem is this entire class is filled with projects with red flags.

And although lawdogg is correct in that some of the guys have other legit offers I agree that there is not close to enough quality in this class. I give the coaches a bit of a pass because they are stepping in on short time and seeing them keep Ross, add Coleman, add Severson who at least looks like a PAC athlete etc. gives me some hope.

If next years class is not significantly better in terms of quality then it will be time to be very worried.

 

[AKfan]

I think if Sefo reopened up he would have a pile of BCS offers. Ross appears to have garnered some interest. I haven't followed Reid much did he have any other options besides PWO at USC from Pac programs. I do think we did pretty well with our OL and I have gone on record saying I think we found some decent guards. It sounds like Coleman and Lindsay would have had more offers if not for the injuries.

With that said we appear to be in the rough with most of our recruits hoping we find diamonds.

I don't follow recruiting very closely but it seems like Embree had a lot of these kids signed pretty early which is tough for me to understand. Embree pulled a decent class last year so this class seems like a big step back. Did the last staff trust their talent evaluation and believe these kids were actually far better prospects than their rankings, or did the last staff anticipate an abortion of a season coming and try to sign anybody with a pulse?

 

[MtnBuff]

I don't follow recruiting very closely but it seems like Embree had a lot of these kids signed pretty early which is tough for me to understand. Embree pulled a decent class last year so this class seems like a big step back. Did the last staff trust their talent evaluation and believe these kids were actually far better prospects than their rankings, or did the last staff anticipate an abortion of a season coming and try to sign anybody with a pulse?

If you can figure out what Embree was trying to do, in recruiting, in developing talent, in offensive and defensive strategy, etc. let me know because I haven't figured it out yet.

This class is just another indication that JE was in over his head and going down fast.

 

[buffaholic]

I guess the main disagreement between you and I is where the line is drawn. It appears you have conceded we cannot beat out even marginal BCS conference teams for recruits.

It has to get better from here. At least I hope so.

I think it's more about their database. They are pursuing the kids they were recruiting because they did a few years of work into knowing them in every way and I'm sure they think that the top 3-7 of those guys (it's a small number whatever it is they are working with) are good Pac12 players.

I think we can agree that every year some very good players end up at non BCS schools. HCMM has room for maybe 5 guys of his own out of hundreds he was recruiting. Maybe just maybe he likes those 5 (or so) and isn't so sure who Utah, Iowa State, etc are recruiting right now.

So, no I'm not conceding that we can't beat out marginal BCS conference teams. That's not the game this year.

Next year, I'd expect they will be working from a different list. But I'd also expect that these guys will develop their own list of what they are looking for.

So yes, we can compete with the Utah's and Washington States. But right now, HCMM is going after the best players he knows. It won't be that bad since San Jose State would have kicked our ass by 50 this year.

 

[aik]

if coach mac can get us to san jose st level in 2 years i will take that as we will be finishing in the middle of the pac 12...then he can take the recruiting from there

Washington, Cal, and the Arizona schools have been middle of the PAC the last two years and they've run laps around us in recruiting. I'll take a top 8 finish the first few MM years if we start beating those schools for recruits because of the improvement.

 

[BuffHerd]

It was a small class to begin with. Embree had it two-thirds full when he was fired. I'm sure MM looked at the class and liked some and not others, but it is unlikely that they had too many similarites on their SJSU board. We would be debating a different disaster had he pulled Embrees offers. That leaves six or seven scholies for him to work with this late in the cycle. I think project players were the best bet here. How many highly rated players do you see flipping to this train wreck right now. Going after kids who they were familiar with abd viewed as under the radar may provide a couple of gems down the road.

The overwhelming sentiment on this board, and I agree, we must see better effort and better recruiting battles next year.

 

[Waldo]

agree with bufnik..we must redshirt most ol and dl recruits... look at wisco.. you see an oline recruit at 250 pounds and when they take the field 2 years later thay are all 300 plus!

as a soph in HS buffson went up against Jordan Black a Sr who was committed to ND, he was listed at 6'7 315 as a Sr in HS. After that game is when buffson started getting letters, he was a soph at 6'5 230. By the time he walked into Dal Ward he was all the way up to 235. So yeah the top ranked recruits are physical specimens and highly recruited in spite of being handled by a football player who was much smaller.