ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
I think we acquitted ourselves fairly well last night all things considered-Utah's really, really good and probably should be in the CFP if they get it done on Friday.
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Jay Johnson
- Thread starter Trump's Eunuch
- Start date
I think we acquitted ourselves fairly well last night all things considered-Utah's really, really good and probably should be in the CFP if they get it done on Friday.
I am not defending Montez, that message is getting lost in translation here. I am stating the OC makes calls and the calls were poorly made that did not give the offense the best opportunity to move the ball effectively. Calling plays with 2 RB's and 2 TE's on 3rd and 14, instead of utilizing your best assets (WR's) and having 5 wideouts on 3rd and 14 would be a better alternative. We punted all year with poor 3rd down play calling.
I too believe the offense will improve with skilled TE's, once they are on campus. Mangum and the committed RB will help. There is better talent on the way, but will it matter if the guy calling the plays is not putting the team in the best position to win and move the ball... That is my concern. The talent is definitely coming!
If your QB cannot read more than 1/3 of the field, can’t get past his primary pre-snap read, doesn’t recognize blitzes & coverages, and is 50/50 on accuracy when the table is perfectly set... of course a lot of your offense will be easy throws with hope your talented receivers can make someone miss or break a tackle to turn a 0-5 yard completion into the 6-12 yards you needed. It was what it was. Montez had a completion percentage above 60 due to a ton of passes like you see in the NFL when the team has a bad QB — and then he’d add a deep ball or scramble play every now and then. But ask him to read safeties and linebackers to find guys in the seam or on crossing routes was more likely to end in a negative play (incomplete, interception or sack) than in a completion - no matter how open a guy was from the play design.
The WR film room on Sunday/Monday must have been incredibly frustrating and disheartening the past 3 years.
What would you have done as OC if Montez was your QB? Coach him up and mentor him, teach him reads, put in Lytle and let him develop or call plays that had no chance of working and punt the ball all season?
What you don’t seem to get is that there are certain player and talent deficiencies that can’t be schemed around. Particularly when the guy you’re relying upon is mentally inconsistent and the problems are not consistent.
Montez as a QB was like a golfer with a 2-way ball striking issue. If you don’t know if it’s a hook or slice when mis-hit and then you throw in consistently ignoring advice from a caddy, getting yips and having less than ideal practice, workout & study habits... consistency is impossible. Every competition - every shot, really - is a crap shoot. Arm talent, athleticism and physical size were there. Some special stuff over the years (like the game winning pass to Viska at NU), but you couldn’t count on him to repeat anything good in his game from series to series. Montez is the exact type of QB who gets OCs, QB Coaches and HCs fired — and a big part of that is that he makes his teammates frustrated and disheartened.
I don’t know if I’ll end up wanting to move on from Johnson, but he’s been working with similar irreconcilable problems at QB as we’ve seen with the post-Manning Broncos.
You don’t have any clue what you’re talking about here.
For starters, Montez had great latitude this season on what plays were run. He shouldn’t have been given that authority because he’s not a talented processor of information.
As others have mentioned, Montez is incapable of development. He doesn’t have the ability to convert the information that he knows intellectually to his physical actions. He’s unable to read route tree progressions in game situations. He‘s very inconsistent in making intermediate throws. The OC had to completely remove slants from our offense because he’s deficient at making the easiest throw in college football.
We had a fifth year senior QB who was a major liability. It is truly exceptional that this team found a way to win 5 games given the handicap he gave this team.
Similar to what Johnson did.
Stick with Montez since his backups are worse and you don’t want to scare off Lewis or a grad transfer with an entrenched incumbent.
With that, convince him to stop trying to be a pocket QB — run, freelance and be cocky while avoiding turnovers. Run whenever a scramble is available. Pull my hair out as I watch him miss throws or blow reads in QB options, blitz hots or simple route trees. Hope he makes enough plays to give us a chance to gag our way to a close win.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
The UDub and Stanford game “styles” say hold my beer.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
Why should he all of a sudden be able to make reads in Y5 when he showed no history of being able to be coached to do this in four previous years.
Even his mechanics didn’t improve over the years. I saw Roper drill him in period after period to correct this. He could in the period, then immediately reverted to old habits in 7s and 11s. Thats not on Roper. Nor Lindgren. Nor Chiv. Nor Johnson.
That’s just who Steven Montez. To think differently is to ignore history. He is who he is. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Listen, I've been a huge Montez critic since early in his career, sooner than most on this board and caught crap for it, but I find it humorous that the AllBuff jury has spoken and are laying all our offensive woes solely on the feet of Montez. BuffinCali is taking more heat than he should here. Red zone playcalling all season, and 4th quarter playcalling in the USC game were very bad. Lots of strange/headscratching calls.
My biggest issue is him not doing what a coordinator is supposed to do, put his offense and QB in the best position to have success. You know your guy is weak reading the defense and making progressions? He has decent athleticism and a strong arm? How about we move him out of the pocket with a lot of flood concepts, cutting the field in half and making his reads easier? How about more designed runs for him in the offense, making the threat of him running an actual threat? Montez was doodoo but Johnson didn't even try changing it up. He had one of the best WRs in the country and didn't make teams pay for putting him in single coverage. I was shocked how often Viska was on an island and the ball didn't go his way. JJ had 3 years worth of film and all the practices to see what Montez could and couldn't do. What formations, concepts, and routes he was most successful at, etc. Montez is bad and it's the hand JJ was dealt, but getting the most out of a guy is what a good coordinator does. I wasn't impressed with what he got out of him with a vastly improved line, and mostly unchanged skill position group.
My biggest issue is him not doing what a coordinator is supposed to do, put his offense and QB in the best position to have success. You know your guy is weak reading the defense and making progressions? He has decent athleticism and a strong arm? How about we move him out of the pocket with a lot of flood concepts, cutting the field in half and making his reads easier? How about more designed runs for him in the offense, making the threat of him running an actual threat? Montez was doodoo but Johnson didn't even try changing it up. He had one of the best WRs in the country and didn't make teams pay for putting him in single coverage. I was shocked how often Viska was on an island and the ball didn't go his way. JJ had 3 years worth of film and all the practices to see what Montez could and couldn't do. What formations, concepts, and routes he was most successful at, etc. Montez is bad and it's the hand JJ was dealt, but getting the most out of a guy is what a good coordinator does. I wasn't impressed with what he got out of him with a vastly improved line, and mostly unchanged skill position group.
This only works if your QB is not afraid of getting hit.
But Montez cannot do much. Seriously.
What offense do you build around Montez? Montez in designed runs was actually not good. Pretty good scrambler, but usually afraid of contact regardless.
I am fine with JJ getting plenty of heat, but I am willing to see how he does with another QB before passing real judgement.
Moving the pocket has no bearing on your QBs willingness to get hit. It actually makes it easier for him to get rid of the ball before he gets hit and he doesn't have to worry about getting hit from as many angles as he would in the pocket.
It did with Montez though. Zero awareness.
I'm aware. I watched the same games you did. We were probably two of the most critical of him throughout the last 3 years.
I agree that it's a little early for judgment, my point is I wasn't impressed with what I saw this year and thought he didn't do dick to help Montez. At least Chev made it a point to get the ball into #2's hands as much as possible, and keep it simple for "single read Steve". Montez isn't the first guy who sucked at reads. Figure out a way to help him.
To be fair to JJ, Viska did not seem available at his disposal as much as Chev had him that first half of 2018.
I defended Montez his first two years as a starter, as our offensive line was terrible and he was getting drilled way too much.
But whether his faults were learned or innate, it doesn't make a difference now. Montez missed wide open receivers on at least a third of our passing plays. That is going to make any play caller look bad.
I thought Jay Johnson called pretty good games overall. I wish he’d move the qb around more, and put him under center more, especially on the goal line. But all things considered jay johnson wasnt our offensive problem this year,
But whether his faults were learned or innate, it doesn't make a difference now. Montez missed wide open receivers on at least a third of our passing plays. That is going to make any play caller look bad.
I thought Jay Johnson called pretty good games overall. I wish he’d move the qb around more, and put him under center more, especially on the goal line. But all things considered jay johnson wasnt our offensive problem this year,
Lytle is not the backup from what I've seen.
c502cid
Well-Known Member
From cuatthegame Stuart: Over the course of three seasons, Steven Montez was the starting quarter in 11 games in which Colorado had five wins, needing a victory to become bowl-eligible. Montez went 0-11 in those games.
Whats the common denominator? It sure isn't Jay Johnson.
Whats the common denominator? It sure isn't Jay Johnson.
Fire Neinas!
I'm going to start using the bolded more often
Jay Johnson should get a clean slate for next season and given the talent that we have coming in at RB & the OL's performance this season compared to one & two years ago, we should be excited for what he can do as OC.
We don't know yet how much Montez held back the CU offense the last few seasons.
We don't know yet how much Montez held back the CU offense the last few seasons.
That's what Chev did last year, and once defenses (read U$C and beyond) figured that out - well you know how the 2nd half of the season went for one SM.
The absolute air mail to a wide open Russell on Saturday night tells you everything you need to know about calling plays with Montez as your QB. The play was really well designed, perfectly blocked, great route, and Montez doesn't even get it within five yards of his receiver.
GuySmiley
Don't Drink the Kool-Aid
Buffnik,
Being a golfer, I love the 2 way miss analogy. SM did have problems--well documented and hopefully a new QB is the answer. I am a bit skeptical that SM is all of it. The running game was better. With so many 2nd/3rd and short, I was surprised at the total lack of explosive plays in good downs. Could be SM, but I would think the OC would find some weaknesses to exploit in terms of mismatches or just viewing the game as it progresses. I like the idea of bringing in an experienced offensive technical intern, if one is available.
Same with the weekly game-plan; it sort of under whelmed. HCMM was heavy on position packages. It seemed this season's offense was pretty vanilla without many new game-day wrinkles or "go to" plays. I agree with DBT, as sometimes the middle of the field was a barren wasteland without options. Looking back, I was a bit underwhelmed with Johnson's game planning/play calling through the 2nd half of the season. The Line penalties racked up.
Johnson is MT's guy and has experience, so I presume he is good to go. Perhaps, the Buffs will install a newer scheme next year as a 2nd step. Even elite college QB's only see 75% of the field, if they are lucky. Looking through the stats, Arias only having 4 catches, although he had some dropsies, given his size and speed was telling. I thought he was a logical mis-match with Viska and KD/Brown on the field. The designed pass routes, route running, and pass play design seemed undisciplined for experiences position players. No question SM missed plays, but every QB does and good OC's somehow find ways around that.
Also, surprised JJ did not sit Montez and try Stenstrom in USC (after dinged), Wazzu, or UO except in garbage time. See if he gives a spark?
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SilvrGldBuff
Well-Known Member
And not just 1 game, but 11
GoBuffs08
Well-Known Member
The second he missed that throw I screamed at the tv that we have bad Montez tonight. That has been the problem with Montez all year. Good Montez in ASU and second half Nubs game, then we would get AF game Montez who consistently missed wide open receivers, electing to throw into double/triple coverage.
Yep and I don't think it is fair to blame Johnson in this case.
Thanks.
I want to be precise with my wording because I don’t think Montez is dumb. He knows what he should do. In the stressful moments of a meaningful game (i.e. a game to qualify CU for a bowl), he’s incapable of consistently incorporating the intellectual with the behavioral.
It’s the reason why Ryan Fitzpatrick has stuck so long in the NFL. He understands the math of the game and has enough grit to fill in where his body can’t go. While he doesn’t have the physical tools required to be an elite player, he is able to make more good decisions than bad ones in the heat of the moment. Montez has many physical gifts, but consistently incorrect decision-making gives him a very low ceiling.